249 replies to this topic

[Kyll Long]

IxxxI, on 04 February 2012 - 09:51 AM, said:

After reading today's news, I've returned to an old sad thought of mine, that ridiculously demonized Liao and Capellan Confederation is consequence of continuos information war. Previously I took it as heritage of 80s, cold war and so on, shadows of old fears reflected in the game lore to say.
I was pleased by 'Mech #5 announcement, which included different points of views from different Houses' military advisers, so I hoped that MWO storywriters will continue please us with complicated intrigues. Now I see that tendency of demonizing one side to make formally appropriate target for every narrow-minded human-beings isn't come to the end.

So I have two questions:

• Do you think that devs lead us to strong polarity white/black in MWO factions? If yes - what's thier goal? (by polarity I don't mean enmity of factions came from the lore)
  
• Do you think it is possible, that PGI will continue legitimating aggression against Capellan Confederation by publishing only anti-CC posts?

I don't need CC painted in white, I just would prefer to read the same news with source mentioned, i.e. some pro-Davion news agency, that would dot all the "i"s.


P.S. If your allegiance isn't with CC, please keep conversation in the thread constructive.

My opionion only. Let the masses of the uniformed continue to demonize us. Let them soak up the majority of the piltos who only want glory for themselves. Leave us the ones who want to be part of a real team facing the great challenge of reunifying the universe and bringing the wisdom and benevolence of our ruler to those oppressed peoples of the other Houses. We are the ones who can stand in the face of our enemies and cry HAVOK! We are the ones who can face innumerable odds and overcome them. We spit in the face of the Devil! We know our cause is righteous and our warriors SUPREME.

OOC: Eh it helps us draw people looking for a real challenge and more inclined to work together and gives the bad guys all those L33T bois

[Exilyth]

Indeed. Let other houses boast about their perceived strength and their thirst for war.
We truly live in interesing times...


OOC:
All media is produced by people and therefore prone to error and subjectivity. Also, any form of media is like a filter between the reader/viewer and the truth.

At least in BT, you (mostly) know which version is true (canon) and which is just propaganda.
Still, shouldn't stop us from decrying the truth as 'outrageous lies' during rp...

Having different house newspapers would be nice. (Maybe just writing each days news entry from a different perspective would be enough?)

[metro]

Kyll Long, on 08 February 2012 - 12:51 PM, said:

My opionion only. Let the masses of the uniformed continue to demonize us. Let them soak up the majority of the piltos who only want glory for themselves. Leave us the ones who want to be part of a real team facing the great challenge of reunifying the universe and bringing the wisdom and benevolence of our ruler to those oppressed peoples of the other Houses. We are the ones who can stand in the face of our enemies and cry HAVOK! We are the ones who can face innumerable odds and overcome them. We spit in the face of the Devil! We know our cause is righteous and our warriors SUPREME.

OOC: Eh it helps us draw people looking for a real challenge and more inclined to work together and gives the bad guys all those L33T bois

Well said my brother, Well said.

[Brian Banzai]

Thats what brought me to the Confederation way back in 1985, the us against the rest of the universe stance. That plus the Northwind Highlanders. I've allways been a Capellan and always will be. We are stronger together than any other group of people because we have always had to rely on each other for survival. I get sick of the *Davions / Steiners GOOD, all others BAD slant that is often written in the novels but I'm used to it. I look at it as a filter for new players. If you are one of those, I just want to play the good guys newbies, then drink up your coolaid and grab your FedCom gear. But if you really read the original stories, and look past the leaders of each house as a representation of all people from that house, then you are welcome in the Confederation. We are the best.

[Chuckie]

In what galaxy.. ?

Whenever I hear a Capellan talk its sounds like more North Korean propaganda to me.

http://www.businessi...or-harvesting-1

http://www.wired.com...rea-propaganda/



Tell me that doesn't look and sound like House Liao and the Capellans ..?

Edited by Chuckie, 09 February 2012 - 10:28 AM.

[God of War]

maxoconnor, on 09 February 2012 - 08:50 AM, said:

If you are one of those, I just want to play the good guys newbies, then drink up your coolaid and grab your FedCom gear. But if you really read the original stories, and look past the leaders of each house as a representation of all people from that house, then you are welcome in the Confederation. We are the best.

How about growing up and start to discover that wanting to bee the "cool evil Badguy dressed in Black" like Darth Maul is just
the same Bullship of Sterotyp!
If i had received 20cent for every new BT-player i met over the years that screamed:
"I wann play Liao! Death-Commandos are soo cool, Yeah!", Apple would be mine by now!

How can someone really big up a "Nation" that offenly slaves it´s citizens,cut´s their personal freedoms and
utilise Terror on them to keep them in check!?

[FireNova]

God of War, on 09 February 2012 - 10:45 AM, said:

How can someone really big up ComStar that often enslaves the Inner Sphere (through HPG control of media and ROM),cut´s their personal freedoms (through HPG media control and ROM) and
utilizes Terror(ism) (ROM agent assasinations/sabotage) on the people of the Inner Sphere to keep them in check!?

Fixed.

EDIT: ComStar makes the Capellans LOOK LIKE (dare I say it) the blessed followers of Chuck Norris and his almighty Texas Ranches back on Terra.

Edited by FireNova, 09 February 2012 - 12:09 PM.

[IxxxI]

God of War, on 09 February 2012 - 10:45 AM, said:

How can someone really big up a "Nation" that offenly slaves it´s citizens,cut´s their personal freedoms and
utilise Terror on them to keep them in check!?

I agree with you, I also wonder how that could be, it's illogical, nobody would follow such leader and ideology. But unknown to me dudes decided that entire nation is so stupid, that needs it to be "kindly liberated" by 'democratic' neighbor, which kills sons and daughters at first, takes planets (resources) at second, gives some handouts to new ruling caste at fourth (who of entire St. Ives Compact got all the creams?). Oh, yes, the same neighbor publishes in his newspaper, that stupid nation finally got so much needed freedom, that during conflict no cute animals were hurt and that the most bad guys in most black clothes were urinated on being dead erh, jailed and tried by the court.

What also amuses me, that from the same logical statement we had drawn different conclusions: I got an impression, that somebody needed to call one country "the land where bad guys in black are" to capture valuable resources; you claims, that somebody wants to be "cool bad guy" (not the bad guy, cool bad guy, take a note), moreover, you can advise someone to grown up, really?

Edited by IxxxI, 09 February 2012 - 12:50 PM.

[IxxxI]

Chuckie, on 09 February 2012 - 10:21 AM, said:

In what galaxy.. ?

Whenever I hear a Capellan talk its sounds like more North Korean propaganda to me.

http://www.businessi...or-harvesting-1

http://www.wired.com...rea-propaganda/


Tell me that doesn't look and sound like House Liao and the Capellans ..?

Step away from computer and take a walk, breath deeply on fresh air, you are starting mix real life and forum-fights.

Edited by IxxxI, 09 February 2012 - 12:55 PM.

[Chuckie]

IxxxI, on 09 February 2012 - 12:46 PM, said:

I agree with you, I also wonder how that could be, it's illogical, nobody would follow such leader and ideology.

Then why the love of Liao (I LOVE taking stuff out of context)

Truly no leaders of countries/houses/clans are perfect.. and in war each side will always try to demonize their adversary

But with that said.. your "Dear leader" makes Kim Il Jung look like a well adjusted fellow..

IxxxI, on 09 February 2012 - 12:53 PM, said:

Step away from computer and take a walk, breath deeply on fresh air, you are starting mix real life and forum-fights.

Nope.. using a historical context in which to make you realize how wrong you are

Edited by Chuckie, 09 February 2012 - 12:58 PM.

[IxxxI]

Chuckie, on 09 February 2012 - 12:57 PM, said:

Then why the love of Liao (I LOVE taking stuff out of context)

Truly no leaders of countries/houses/clans are perfect.. and in war each side will always try to demonize their adversary

But with that said.. your "Dear leader" makes Kim Il Jung look like a well adjusted fellow..

Breath, dude, breath deeply, you are calming now and feel relaxed. You are in peace.

[Chuckie]

IxxxI, on 09 February 2012 - 12:59 PM, said:

Breath, dude, breath deeply, you are calming now and feel relaxed. You are in peace.

LOL

Noticed your NOT Denying the Capellan Federation looks a LOT like North Korea from the form of government, the way they treat their people, fanatical cult of personality around their "Dear Leader", etc..

So just saying.. you wanted to know why no one likes you all.. same reason in this day and age, no one like the North Koreans either

Sad thing is these are REAL posters from North Korea







It's both funny and sad if you think about it..

So, is the west "Demonizing" North Korea ? OR are they just friggin nuts and deserve the scorn...

There is your answer.

Edited by Chuckie, 09 February 2012 - 01:24 PM.

[Azalie]

Whoever said Steiner was good obviously has never met Katrina Katherine Steiner-Davion. She epitomizes the evil left in the Steiner bloodline and I would never look to her for leadership. However the same feelings fall upon Romano and Sun-Tzu Liao. Romano is excusable in that she is insane, however Sun-Tzu Liao had an opportunity to change his nation for the better but instead he focused on his own agenda. It is a shame Candace was not in a position of leadership within the Capellan Confederation for I am certain that she could truly open it up to the rest of the Inner Sphere.

[Brian Banzai]

Can anyone here tell me the leader who came up with the Ares convention on civilized warfare? Oh wait, it was Barbara Liao, that can't be, it MUST have been a Davion or Steiner cause we all know they are all goodness and wholesome and never kill off their people for personal gain or vanity. ALL gaventments are evil, ALL governents kill their own people, some just don't pretend they don't. At least House Kurita and Liao can look you in the face and say yes, we do bad stuff, but Hanse Davion didn't kill a generation of people because of a personal vendetta, Katrina Steiner didn't murder millions for her own ego and desire for power right?

Capellans are not the Liao's just as all Federated Suns citizens are not Davions. Our strength comes from our people and surviving through adversity. Rhats why I'm proud to be Capellan. We don't have the most money, or the biggest mechs, or the most people, but we get more done with the things we do have than anyone else.

I'm sure in Chuckie's world every North Korean is bad and all of *insert whatever good guy nation you like* is all wholesome and nice.

People tend to paint with much too broad a brush sometimes because the authors like to write at the 10,000 foot level. How can you hate someone when you actually get to know them. Its easier to make us all out to be mindless drones of the psychotic ruler, bereft of individuality.

[IxxxI]

Chuckie, on 09 February 2012 - 01:12 PM, said:

It's both funny and sad if you think about it..

So, is the west "Demonizing" North Korea ? OR are they just friggin nuts and deserve the scorn...

There is your answer.

Thinking is the key to find answers. That's a free hint to you. Thanks for funny pictures, I didn't get a word from them though.

The way how you treat others mirrors your soul. Nobody deserves the scorn. Frigging nuts you say?

P.S. Your sincere surprise every time I'm not denying your words is so... dollish. Keep it going. Oh, I know, you are not big fun of double meaning phrases, so I guess I have to translate it to you: Who ever said you, that opponent in the dispute should deny every your word? What for?

[Aldous]

FireNova, on 04 February 2012 - 12:37 PM, said:

Highly likely no doubt. Lets face it, Davions are to the Alliance (topdogs) in WoW as Capellan Confederation is to the Horde (underdogs). Whereas Wolves are the Davions of the Clans (lets face it...LOTS of Wolf subfactions that everyone and their dog loves in BT...lol) vs Smoke Jaguars are the Liao of the Clans (just barely alive/survived if you count Dark Age lore).

Its just a fact that most people like the super charged "good guy" factions and the underdogs will be the punching bag. This goes for any game really. I too would like to have a balanced game/fiction but as long as people want to support "TEH TOPDAWG" faction(s), I really doubt it IMHO.

IMO... that's the main reason Battletech hasn't been more broadly received by the public. The Horde may be the underdog in WoW but at least they weren't outnumbered by 5-1.

Who want's to play a game where you're a guaranteed winner or loser?

[Aldous]

Azalie, on 09 February 2012 - 01:37 PM, said:

Whoever said Steiner was good obviously has never met Katrina Katherine Steiner-Davion. She epitomizes the evil left in the Steiner bloodline and I would never look to her for leadership. However the same feelings fall upon Romano and Sun-Tzu Liao. Romano is excusable in that she is insane, however Sun-Tzu Liao had an opportunity to change his nation for the better but instead he focused on his own agenda. It is a shame Candace was not in a position of leadership within the Capellan Confederation for I am certain that she could truly open it up to the rest of the Inner Sphere.

LOL... yeah... Sun Tzu Liao could have had peace had he simply surrendered to the Holy Davion.

Or maybe Sun Tzu should have just asked to have Tikonov returned. I'm sure the Davions would give it back!

[Azalie]

I always fingered Kurita as more of the Horde if Davion is the Alliance.

[Rabbit Blacksun]

well that would be because you are demons ... now who is the head demon

Edited by Rabbit Blacksun, 09 February 2012 - 08:01 PM.

[Chuckie]

maxoconnor, on 09 February 2012 - 02:25 PM, said:

I'm sure in Chuckie's world every North Korean is bad and all of *insert whatever good guy nation you like* is all wholesome and nice.

Nope.. being I served in South Koren in the 80s I am quite familiar with the area.

What you seem to be missing is I am addressing the OP question:

"Why developers continue to demonize Capellan Confederation"

In doing so I am using modern history to put the reason in context.

Because in the Canon, the Capellans government is run like the North Koreans, they treat civilians like the North Koreans, etc... etc.. etc.. they are a Military Dictatorship.. period.

As for the North Koreans as a people. Are all North Koreans Nuts.. ? Nope.. The average North Korean is hard working and just wants to do what is right for their family and survive. But due to GENERATIONS of living under a military dictatorship and a totalitarian cult of personality, they are a bit brainwashed into thinking that way of life is normal, and they virtually worship the dictator (and god have mercy on them if they don't).

As for the propaganda posters.. you don't have to read Korean to understand the imagery.

Seriously if you look into what limited access the outside world has seen of North Korea you will realize its not far off from the world as depicted in Half-Life 2, and according to canon, the Capellans aren't living in a world far off from that.





The North Koreans in this documentary are completely delusional due to a societal level of brainwashing.. if you compare the current North Korean Culture and what canon describes the Capellan worlds and society to be like.. they are a mirror image of each other.

That is all..

So if you can not accept your house is a fanatical military dictatorship with its own totalitarian cult of personality.. then I understand, its all the Capellan brainwashing you have had since a child and you will never understand.

Edited by Chuckie, 10 February 2012 - 05:08 AM.