69 replies to this topic

[Petroff Northrup]

So in a recent Jihad book detailing much of the end of that era many things were introduced or reintroduced such as battlemech drones and LAMs, one thing which really caught my eye though, were the Super-heavies, there are basically now rules and full canonical status for mechs over 100 tons allowing for mechs to go all the way up to 200 tons now. The technology is far from perfect and there are still quirks but they do exist and are quite brutal. My question is this though, if this game reaches the point were super-heavies become viable would you want them implemented?

[Tryg]

Well, if they stick to this 'live' rate of time in game being equal to time out of game, it's a concern they won't have to worry over through most of the lifespan of the game. Looking that far ahead may be overdoing it just a bit!

Edit: And lets not force the Devs into thinking on things too far beyond the Clan invasion, as it stands now we'll be fortunate if their heads don't explode from the sheer volume of community feedback!

Edited by Tryg, 06 February 2012 - 07:39 PM.

[Petroff Northrup]

Tryg, on 06 February 2012 - 07:37 PM, said:

Well, if they stick to this 'live' rate of time in game being equal to time out of game, it's a concern they won't have to worry over through most of the lifespan of the game. Looking that far ahead may be overdoing it just a bit!

I understand, though to make things more interesting the time could be varied by the devs based on how much is going on in the canon, during sort of 'downtimes' things could be accelerated a bit, as i understand it it will be 1:1 at start for time but will be changed based on how they see thing going in canon and with the players.

[Tryg]

It could be, but for the immediate future, I don't see them accelerating anything that's going to cause their metaphorical plates to crush the table. I'm quite certain they have enough to do considering the what is it at... over five hundred or some odd amount of mechs out there? Not counting of course, the variants of each one.

Granted, a lot of these they can weed out due to era. So I'm certain they want to put off thinking about it as long as they can manage

[Kaemon]

100 tons? hmmm, that sounds like a job for orbital bombardment!

[Lorcan Lladd]

So, those things weight as much as a Medium lance does - and probably travel at about one-quarter Medium lance speed.
Wouldn't they just be, y'know, big targets for artillery, although basically capable of crushing any 'Mech resistance by themselves?
It could be interesting if they ever made it into MechWarrior Online, but I don't see how it is possible...

Edit, because I didn't think I was clear enough.

Edited by Lorcan Lladd, 06 February 2012 - 07:47 PM.

[Petroff Northrup]

Kaemon, on 06 February 2012 - 07:44 PM, said:

100 tons? hmmm, that sounds like a job for orbital bombardment!

Congrats, you have annoyed death incarnate with your pitiful attack.

[Petroff Northrup]

Lorcan Lladd, on 06 February 2012 - 07:46 PM, said:

So, those things weight as much as a Medium lance does - and probably travel at about one-quarter Medium lance speed.
Wouldn't they just be, y'know, big targets for artillery, but basically crushing any 'Mech resistance?
It could be interesting if they ever made it into MechWarrior Online, but I don't see how it is possible...

ya, they move slow as molasses, it is probably the first unit since the trench that the Lyrans might consider too slow

[Ravn]

I would like to see this on solaris as some kind of lance vs boss match (played by a dev???).

[Lorcan Lladd]

Petroff Northrup, on 06 February 2012 - 07:48 PM, said:

ya, they move slow as molasses, it is probably the first unit since the trench that the Lyrans might consider too slow

What...
...How many tons of armor are they capable of mounting?

Edit.
Well, the reason why I don't think they could make it into MechWarrior Online is that they're probably too slow and impervious to enemy fire for the pacing of an online game; even if it's two Super-Heavies fighting each other, it would probably take a long time for either to be destroyed or even disabled, and that's if they even meet on the battlefield, which, considering how slow they move, might take about the time of a normal match.

And they might require artillery to be destroyed by 'Mechs below their weight class, which detracts from the perspective of 'Mech on 'Mech action.
But I'm probably being too critical.

It would be nice to have the option of piloting one.

Edited by Lorcan Lladd, 06 February 2012 - 07:58 PM.

[Ranger207]

In TacOps, there are rules for "mobile structures."

This is one of them, except on legs.

[Pht]

I don't see the point of super-heavy mechs when they move so slow and vehicles of the same weight can effectively mount more armor...

not sure how they would affect the game though ... I'm not familiar with them yet.

[Kenyon Burguess]

if its in, its in. by then it shouldnt matter much. the mechs are so much more advanced by that timeline that 200 ton machines go down just as fast as standard mechs do now.

[Lorcan Lladd]

Geist Null, on 06 February 2012 - 08:00 PM, said:

if its in, its in. by then it shouldnt matter much. the mechs are so much more advanced by that timeline that 200 ton machines go down just as fast as standard mechs do now.

So it wouldn't disrupt the game and match pacing.
I made a silly assumption.

[Petroff Northrup]

Ravn, on 06 February 2012 - 07:50 PM, said:

I would like to see this on solaris as some kind of lance vs boss match (played by a dev???).

After reading lorcan's post and thinking about it this may actually be the only viable way for them to be in the game.

Lorcan Lladd, on 06 February 2012 - 07:51 PM, said:

What...
...How many tons of armor are they capable of mounting?

Edit.
Well, the reason why I don't think they could make it into MechWarrior Online is that they're probably too slow and impervious to enemy fire for the pacing of an online game; even if it's two Super-Heavies fighting each other, it would probably take a long time for either to be destroyed or even disabled, and that's if they even meet on the battlefield, which, considering how slow they move, might take about the time of a normal match.

And they might require artillery to be destroyed by 'Mechs below their weight class, which detracts from the perspective of 'Mech on 'Mech action.
But I'm probably being too critical.

It would be nice to have the option of piloting one.

I actually had not really thought about speed between them or really anything but how they might be intriguing overall. Seeing as how some can mount over 100 points of armor in a single location, that with their design rules they were pretty much developed to use a XXL, and that the example one can only move 2/3 these would be plodding borderline unkillable avatars of death, with their arsenal and armor even 100 tonners are dwarfed in stature, arsenal and armor, in tabetop they can certainly be brought down due to the way rules in that, but live action I am not so sure given how many crits it has and how much tonnage it could spare towards weapons.

The example mech is 150 tons uses CASE II and an XL engine and can mount 3 gauss rifles with backup weapons... XXL engines are a better choice for them given their armor and design rules for their crits so I can only imagine the type of arsenal which could be truly brought to bear using ferro armor and a XXL engine.

Also, with their speeds the game would slow to a crawl as each side tried to position their super-heavies against their enemy's superheavies unless the maps were made tiny.

Edited by Petroff Northrup, 06 February 2012 - 08:11 PM.

[Lorcan Lladd]

Petroff Northrup, on 06 February 2012 - 08:10 PM, said:

Also, with their speeds the game would slow to a crawl as each side tried to position their super-heavies against their enemy's superheavies unless the maps were made tiny.

Well, that's only if players tried to use them like they would Assaults...
...With weapons such as the Gauss mounted on them, and on maps with wide open spaces, those Super-Heavies could be used as powerful long-range direct fire powerhouses.

They wouldn't really need to move, and with massive armor tonnage plus CASE, being exposed to fire wouldn't be such a great concern - they would possess the strenghts and role of support units without being nearly as vulnerable as those units tend to be.
Just a thought.

[The Cheese]

I would imagine them as being like the "Juggernaught Armour" kill-streak reward in CoD. Heavily armed and armoured, and very slow. They're generally only dangerous if you focus on them and ignore the faster moving enemies because it's easy to run away and take cover from them.

Even the biggest guns are harmless if they can't hit you.

Edited by The Cheese, 06 February 2012 - 09:23 PM.

[Gabriel Amarell]

The original arc ended with the Fed-Com civil war that followed on the heels of the clan invasion, I dont know how much Weisman had to do with what was produced after that. I have not read much of the Word of Blake jihad, but that arc did not seem nearly as compelling to me. As for the dark age stuff, I am hoping this reboot will take the future of battle tech in a different direction. I would rather not have "Super Heavies" they would completely unballance the game in my opinion. Obviously they would have to be rdiculously slow, and very slow turning, which would mean relatively quick torso movement (if that wasnt the case, how would they ever be able to target anything, and why would you even field one) Do you really want mechs (and I use the term loosely with "Super-Heavies" to me they are more like semi mobile turrets) that can mount enough firepower to 1 shot an assault mech. What I want personally is weapon variation, new kinds of ammo for existing weapons, variation amongst weapons (An AC-20 frmo this company that fires 20 rounds per shot, vs and AC-20 from that company that fires 1 much bigger round per shot, both do the same dmg, just a differnt style for the same weapon) I really hope Weisman rethinks the whole "Dark Age" with this reboot, maybe following the Fed-Com civil war with "Rise of the Perifery States" or maybe the 2nd Star League lasting a while and not dying after what 10 years.

[John Clavell]

I don't think Weisman has anything to do with Battletech directly since he sold WizKids to Topps.

[Gunmage]

But there's only one canonical super-heavy...