408 replies to this topic

[Strum Wealh]

Dran, on 24 January 2013 - 07:12 PM, said:

The warhammer to me seems like the easiest to modify and get away with it. Remove the TV on the shoulder, move the missile bay to the upper left torso ext. Could be cause I am biased and just want to pilot a warhammer however...

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 24 January 2013 - 09:54 PM, said:

like this?

Actually... not so much.

If one looks closely at the 'Mech used in the old "MW5"/"MW 3015" trailer, especially at the cockpit and body design (most clearly visible at 0:18-0:22 and 1:16-1:19)... it is (essentially) the Reseen Warhammer that was used.

And it still drew a C&D from Harmony Gold, indicating that even (at least some of) the official Reseen may not be safe territory.

As much as I want a Marauder in either form (that is to say, very much), I can't really fault PGI and IGP for wanting to play it safe when it comes to HG and the Unseen/Reseen.

[BadgerWI]

Guys in vans, not good. Iknow if we paid more for premium unseen mechs most of that money would go to th evil empire. At this point I just want have them back.

[DirePhoenix]

Strum Wealh, on 25 January 2013 - 04:34 AM, said:

Actually... not so much.

If one looks closely at the 'Mech used in the old "MW5"/"MW 3015" trailer, especially at the cockpit and body design (most clearly visible at 0:18-0:22 and 1:16-1:19)... it is (essentially) the Reseen Warhammer that was used.

And it still drew a C&D from Harmony Gold, indicating that even (at least some of) the official Reseen may not be safe territory.

As much as I want a Marauder in either form (that is to say, very much), I can't really fault PGI and IGP for wanting to play it safe when it comes to HG and the Unseen/Reseen.

If there was a C&D, why is Pirahna games still using images from that video on their websites?

The IGN article linked has no reference link with any official information, and the author sounds like they have no idea what they're actually talking about.

Edited by DirePhoenix, 25 January 2013 - 07:37 AM.

[BadgerWI]

Well it is game over gents the WB just anounced they have director for robotech the movie so id say the odds of us getting the unseens back in any form have gone from unlikely to impossible.

[Odanan]

BadgerWI, on 25 January 2013 - 07:37 AM, said:

Well it is game over gents the WB just anounced they have director for robotech the movie so id say the odds of us getting the unseens back in any form have gone from unlikely to impossible.

Oh.. I miss Macross... (but I'm not sure I even watched the other 2 Robotech series)

[Sandslice]

Strum Wealh, on 25 January 2013 - 04:34 AM, said:

Actually... not so much.

If one looks closely at the 'Mech used in the old "MW5"/"MW 3015" trailer, especially at the cockpit and body design (most clearly visible at 0:18-0:22 and 1:16-1:19)... it is (essentially) the Reseen Warhammer that was used.

And it still drew a C&D from Harmony Gold, indicating that even (at least some of) the official Reseen may not be safe territory.

As much as I want a Marauder in either form (that is to say, very much), I can't really fault PGI and IGP for wanting to play it safe when it comes to HG and the Unseen/Reseen.

I'm not sure what you're seeing, but the 3015 trailer definitely contains a virtually unaltered Unseen Warhammer - the only difference is the two-headlight searchlight that gets blown off at 1:18.

[Strum Wealh]

DirePhoenix, on 25 January 2013 - 07:33 AM, said:

If there was a C&D, why is Pirahna games still using images from that video on their websites?

The IGN article linked has no reference link with any official information, and the author sounds like they have no idea what they're actually talking about.

The IGN article specifically states that IGN and its parent company received the C&D, ostensibly with regard to the distribution of the video and screenshots.

The IGN article doesn't state whether PGI itself, or any other media outlets, received a C&D, nor do they publish the C&D itself on the website with the article... but it does show that someone at HG got wind of MW5 and sensed blood in the water.

Sandslice, on 25 January 2013 - 08:25 AM, said:

I'm not sure what you're seeing, but the 3015 trailer definitely contains a virtually unaltered Unseen Warhammer - the only difference is the two-headlight searchlight that gets blown off at 1:18.

The original/Unseen Warhammer (and the Tomahawk Destroid it's based on) has a much different, more recessed, more helmet-like head/cockpit design, a more prominent and rounded central torso section, boxier and higher-raised side-torsos, and a humpback.




By contrast, the Reseen Warhammer has a forward-jutting, more crane-like cockpit, a smaller and sunken central-torso area, side-torsos that are less prominent and much closer together, has much thinner limbs in proportion to its height, and lacks the humpback.




The MW5 Warhammer clearly shows many features of the Reseen Warhammer - the lack of a humpback, the forward and crane-like cockpit, the relatively small CT section, the lack of the Unseen design's prominent side-torsos.










Based on the above imagery, I would argue that the MW5 rendition is much, much closer to the Reseen Warhammer than to the Unseen Warhammer.

[Sandslice]

And I can't agree.
1. The reseen's head clearly juts above the torso protrusions. The 3015 Warhammer's, especially in the last pic, clearly doesn't - and the other images suggest that it's closer to in front of the bottom of the protrusions. (On the Tomahawk, those are the bay doors for its LRMs - the same mechanism, and the same missiles, used on the Spartan / Archer.)

2. The torso gun arrays, under the protrusions, are also those of the Unseen - though PGI decided that the small lasers would be the machine guns instead.

3. The feet, torso-hip interface, and hip-leg interfaces cannot possibly be based on the Reseen, and can only be based on the Unseen.

4. Finally, the upper arm-PPC interface, and the shoulder, look like the old Ral Partha minis of the Unseen Warhammer.

All that said...

http://www.sarna.net...rhammer_IIC.jpg (and in before: only the feet really distinguished the Unseen WHM IIc from the IS original. )

Edited by Sandslice, 25 January 2013 - 12:55 PM.

[Deathz Jester]

Dran, on 24 January 2013 - 07:12 PM, said:

The warhammer to me seems like the easiest to modify and get away with it. Remove the TV on the shoulder, move the missile bay to the upper left torso ext. Could be cause I am biased and just want to pilot a warhammer however...

/sarcasm/ here I made a lighter version of the Warhammer. /sarcasm/

[Sandslice]

Iron Harlequin, on 25 January 2013 - 02:16 PM, said:

/sarcasm/ here I made a lighter version of the Warhammer. /sarcasm/

Why so sarcastic? The Hellbie was originally a redesign of the Warhammer for the old Virtual World pods, before FASA folded it (and the other Virtual World models) into TRO 3050 as the first run of Clan Omnis. Likewise, the Summoner is totally a Thunderbolt.

Also, fun fact. The Japanese port of Mechwarrior 1989...
http://www.sarna.net.../File:MW1JE.gif
...what you are seeing is, in fact, an Unseen Griffin IIc. Ports were available on the X68000 and (judging from that image) the SNES. VMI's software division did the port... and this is the only reason so many of the old TRO '55 designs became unseen.

[DirePhoenix]

Strum Wealh, on 25 January 2013 - 10:44 AM, said:

The IGN article specifically states that IGN and its parent company received the C&D, ostensibly with regard to the distribution of the video and screenshots.

The IGN article doesn't state whether PGI itself, or any other media outlets, received a C&D, nor do they publish the C&D itself on the website with the article... but it does show that someone at HG got wind of MW5 and sensed blood in the water.

The original/Unseen Warhammer (and the Tomahawk Destroid it's based on) has a much different, more recessed, more helmet-like head/cockpit design, a more prominent and rounded central torso section, boxier and higher-raised side-torsos, and a humpback.




By contrast, the Reseen Warhammer has a forward-jutting, more crane-like cockpit, a smaller and sunken central-torso area, side-torsos that are less prominent and much closer together, has much thinner limbs in proportion to its height, and lacks the humpback.




The MW5 Warhammer clearly shows many features of the Reseen Warhammer - the lack of a humpback, the forward and crane-like cockpit, the relatively small CT section, the lack of the Unseen design's prominent side-torsos.










Based on the above imagery, I would argue that the MW5 rendition is much, much closer to the Reseen Warhammer than to the Unseen Warhammer.

Based on the above imagery I would say it is neither the Unseen or Reseen Warhammer, but rather a new unique design that satisfies all previous non-pictoral descriptions of what a Warhammer is supposed to look like.

[Strum Wealh]

DirePhoenix, on 26 January 2013 - 10:27 AM, said:

Based on the above imagery I would say it is neither the Unseen or Reseen Warhammer, but rather a new unique design that satisfies all previous non-pictoral descriptions of what a Warhammer is supposed to look like.

Yet, it still got HG started...

Though, this does raise the interesting question of why the Battleaxe and (even more to the point) the Hammerhands - both of them being relatives and in-universe predecessors to the Warhammer, and both extinct until the WoB J***d - seem to be relatively safe (as I've never seen or heard that either of them is counted as Unseen)...





What could we take from these two to make a safe yet satisfying rendition of the Warhammer?

[DirePhoenix]

Strum Wealh, on 26 January 2013 - 11:26 AM, said:

What could we take from these two to make a safe yet satisfying rendition of the Warhammer?

A better question is what makes the Hammerhands ok, and the Smith & Tinker Warhammer not ok? As far as I can tell, HG is reacting to the name and not the imagery, because the images are not the same and HG is just spamming letters to everyone every time a new "official" picture of the contested 'mech appears regardless of what it actually looks like, and everyone panics the hell out with "OH GOD TAKE DOWN THE PICTURES THE LAWYERS ARE WRITING LETTERS AGAIN!!!"

Someone in this franchise needs to put their foot down. If HG is reacting because of the name attached to the imagery, they have no grounds and need to be put in their place. The only thing in contest was the images, not the names, not anything else that makes these mechs they are. We can make new images. We shouldn't have to run and hide and bow down to a paper threat every time a letter goes out and just keep pretending that the core 'mechs of the franchise just don't exist.

[BerryChunks]

Im a hardcore fan of Original Battletech, but the reseen look far better and less crappy.

[gilliam]

I can't sumarily vote on this issue.

Some Unseens look better to me
Rifleman
phoenix hawk
warhammer (though I can tolerate that reseen)

some I like the reseens better
marauder
locust

some I think both look good
battlemaster
griffin


I would love to have these unit in for sure, but they are a boatload of worms that they are better off not trying since Harmony Gold (who claims to be the rights holder, but that doesn't matter since they have more lawyer money) like to prod anything they think might look like something from robotech.

[Odanan]

Sandslice, on 25 January 2013 - 12:54 PM, said:

http://www.sarna.net...rhammer_IIC.jpg (and in before: only the feet really distinguished the Unseen WHM IIc from the IS original. )

That's a "Reseen" Warhammer IIC. Here is the original:


(Very similar to the Unseen)

Source: Sarna.

[DirePhoenix]

verybad, on 26 January 2013 - 05:49 PM, said:

That's not a Reseen, that was the original unseen Warhammer IIC that was removed with the other unseens. The Warhammer IIC showed up before the original licensing problems starts, in the second TRO that involved the Clans.

That's exactly what he said in the post you quoted.

[verybad]

DirePhoenix, on 26 January 2013 - 05:59 PM, said:

That's exactly what he said in the post you quoted.

opos your right thanks.

[buttmonkey]

can somebody fill me in as to why MW/BT cannot just pay royalties or buy the designs or something like that?
of course adding them when they know they will be sued is not an option but why can they not sort something out with whoever it is who wants to sue them for using these mechs?

[Vaneshi SnowCrash]

The Stalker actually looks a lot better as a chicken walker than it does as a human kneed Mech.

I'd actually be interested in seeing PGI's non-Harmony Gold irking (lets not even get in to this discussion) take on the unseen.

Although I'm not totally sure things like the Locust would be useful in MWO.