89 replies to this topic

[Jaroth Corbett]

Here are my ideas as to what I would like to see happen. Please keep in mind this is just a first draft & I am looking for constructive ctiticism. Also keep in mind I am no dev, so to you people that do not read threads or posts just skim them, this is not what WILL happen. This is what I WISH will happen.

1. Clans should be open to ALL players.

2. Choosing to go Clan comes at a certain stage in your character's career. At a certain level you choose to slide over or go up. For EXAMPLE (I am no dev & I know some people halfway read a post then run with it) if the rule is, let us say at Level 26 you have unlocked the Clans you can either stay as an IS pilot & go up one level to 27 or maybe even two levels to 28 as a bonus for staying IS ( I think this is how it is done in Star Trek: Online where after reaching a certain level, you can choose to stay as a Federation player or become Klingon.)

OR

slide over to the Clans but remain at level 26. Your career as a clan pilot begins at Level 26.

3. The first player to become a Clan pilot for a clan does NOT become the Khan. Let us face it, there are a lot of unskilled childish idiots who start a clan, take the title of Khan & rule stupidly with absolutely no sense of what they are doing. In fact I think NO player should be able to rise to Khan or saKhan; those positions should be held by two devs. Four original invading clans means eight devs. They do not even have to fight, as normally most Khans do not see action on the field often. If they do, power to them, but it is not a requirement. They are there as admins, managing the day to day affairs of their respective Clans. They issue orders & updates to their subordinates.

4. Once a player chooses to go Clan, he/she enters "sibko" mode until passing their Trial of Position. (credit to Galaxy613 who recommended this here:

http://mwomercs.com/...5594#entry15594 )

In sibko mode you & your other sibkin go through CLAN training (yes hardcore this is not the Nagelring with pansy *** IS training) & at the conclusion of said training, each cadet takes a Trial of Position. As much as I hate to deviate from the canon (may the Great Father & the Founder forgive me) I have to take into account the realistic application of the Trial for a Clan that is just beginning. A Clan is a pyramid with a huge base & a small apex.

The size of mechwarriors (enlisted men) is far superior to that of officers. This is realistic & accurate. The Trial of Position has two cadets facing 6 opponents, so each cadet is facing 3 mechs as opposition. Now since the only people who will have any rank at this point will be the Khan & saKhan, I would advise we either reduce the number (TEMPORARILY) to 2 opponents OR use the Steel Viper approach & have the cadets fight each other.
In either scenario, a kill grants the cadet, warrior status & placement within the Touman. I think we could even probably employ the ransom aspect of Clan Trials where the higher the rank attained, the greater the ransom that can be requested. Just a thought, we can expand on that some other time.

5. After successfully completing their Trial, the cadet is placed in the touman as an active warrior. At this point that particular Clan only has an Alpha Galaxy & players will be funneled into different sub units within Alpha. If Alpha becomes full, ONLY at that point will Beta become unlocked etc. etc. From the time a sub unit becomes active, their reputation goes live. So obviously the first set of people coming into the Clan will be going into Alpha but as I suggested once Alpha becomes full, other units can be opened so naturally, Beta would be next. So suppose at some point in the game, a particular Clan has 3 Galaxies & from how the players perform, Beta Galaxy is the most elite. Warriors from Alpha & Charlie Galaxies can apply to transfer to Beta. However this will not be done via paperwork. This will be done via a Trial. I will restrict this to the same rank however. A Mechwarrior can challenge a Mechwarrior, a Star Commander can challenge a Star Commander etc. etc. So in keeping with the Clan mentality, you have to fight to get your spot & fight to keep it. So someone of the same rank can challenge your legitimacy of being in a certain unit or even sub unit. If a specific sub-unit performs well & they are being recognized for their talent the same rules apply.

I want it to not just be Clan by the looks of it but by the feel. I want you to become jealous of your brothers & sisters pushing each other & yourself to do better:

Quote

"Did you hear? Charlie Galaxy smashed through the Falcon lines last night. Star Commander Stephen bid below the cut-down & still pulled off a victory. They will surely be getting front-line assignments from now on."

OR

have the IS barbarians tremble at the sight of us:

Quote

"Sir enemy DropShips burning towards us!"
"Have they identified themselves?"
"Aye sir. It is Clan Wolf."
"Damn Clanners! Prepare for battle!"
"Aye sir!"
"Wait did they say what unit they were from?"
*checks clipboard*
"Ummmm oh yes here it is. Says here the 7th Battle Cluster sir."
"The Blood Drinkers? OH MY GOD! Belay my last order, begin an immediate withdrawal! We need to get to Sector 2, it has a much better defensive position. 1st Battalion says they held their own against the 2nd Wolf Lancers but the 7th Battle Cluster? They've been obliterating divisions from here all the way to Sector 5. Of all the units to get, why them? DAMN IT!"

6. As a Clan mechwarrior you have access to light mechs only with a spendable currency I call Access Points. Since traditionally the Clan warriors did not have to buy their mechs or have it handed it down to them they did not have to use the salary they were given towards that but for other purposes. In my proposal Clan warriors get paid in Access Points equal to that of mech tonnage. So once a cadet passes his/her ToP he/she will receive a payment of 20 Access Points enabling them to unlock the lightest of the light mechs, the Fire Moth (Dasher for your spheroids).

Accomplishing goals earns one Access Point so as they go along, they can accumulate quite a few. How this would work is, beginning as a Clan character you are at, let us use my earlier example & say Level 26. At Level 26, you shed your IS character & become a Clan cadet. After passing your ToP your get bumped up to either Level 27 or 28 (whatever), in addition to receiving the Access Points. So you receive your 20 AP & unlock the Fire Moth at which point you are broke. Now as you begin fighting as a Clan warrior, you have the opportunity to not only level up but receive AP. As you progress, & your level increases other mechs become unlocked.

So when you started, you only had access to the Fire Moth (which is 20 tons). At a certain level, the Locust IIC (25 tons) becomes unlocked. If you have attained 25 AP from the time you started to now, you can choose to spend the 25 AP to upgrade to a Locust IIC immediately or you can horde your AP for a later upgrade whether in that same weight class or higher. This would mean the choices you make would have direct consequences on your future. I also think leaving this choice in the players hands would give them a real sense of how important it is to analyze the situation, weigh all the options then make the best decision they can.

So I get the Locust IIC unlocked & I have managed to attain 25 AP. Do I take the Locust IIC now or hold out for 5 more AP in order to get the Kit Fox (Uller) for 30 tons? Or do I even unlock any more mechs in the light class? Maybe I hold on until the mediums become unlocked...... Keep in mind that once you have the AP to get a specific mech & you choose to take the mech you are broke & are stuck with that choice until you regain sufficient AP to get another.

7. Players will get promoted one rank at a time. So it will go Mechwarrior=>Star Commander=>Star Captain=>Star Colonel=>Galaxy Commander. Now getting back to the lore, by the time you reached the Star Captain rank, you should have participated in a Trial of Bloodright & won your Bloodname. Warriors without a Bloodname will NOT be allowed to go higher than Star Captain. On average there should forty Bloodnames available per Clan (obviously some will be more & some will be less). My recommendation regarding Bloodnames can be found here:


http://mwomercs.com/...6241#entry96241

Why will attaining a Bloodname be so important? Well for one, the honor it bestows speaks volumes about your character. It allows you to pursue higher ranks but more importantly, gaining a Bloodname whether you are as low as a Mechwarrior or as high as a Star Captain, will give you access to & the ability to vote on, the Clan Council. The Clan Council votes on all matters regarding the Clan whether major or minor.

8. As I stated earlier, my view is that NO player should be Khan or saKhan of a Clan. That means that the highest rank you can achieve will be Galaxy Commander. (the Oathmaster & Loremaster will be decided by a vote of the Clan Council) This means that getting Galaxy Commander should be at the highest levels. I also want to emphasize that this is a Clan which means that when you achieve whatever goal you set for yourself, you cannot then just rest on your laurels.

All newly appointed officers should remain unchallenged for a month. I think that is sufficient time to ascertain how somebody is performing. If it is believed that they are not performing as well as they could & it is to the detriment of the Clan, an IMMEDIATE subordinate can challenge them to a Trial of Possession for the rank. That means that a Mechwarrior CANNOT challenge a Galaxy Commander for his rank, he can only challenge HIS Star Commander. If the subordinate wins, then the ranks, roles & responsibilities are reversed.

I would suggest giving the superior officer who is successful, the ability to claim a prize of his own (as is allowed in the lore). Nothing as severe as expulsion for the loser, but perhaps transfer from the unit & since the only person who can challenge that officer is his immediate subordinate, a transfer means the loser would now have to fight his way back into the unit. This will make people think twice about challenging their superior for their position as they have to face grave repercussions should they fail. This should also discourage people from trying to take ranks from people maliciously, at least in theory.

9. Fighting as a Clan warrior affords you better training & tech however there are limitations.

Clan warriors begin with a certain number of pilots at their disposal. A batchall is issued. Once answered, the warriors then bid amongst themselves to determine who will be doing the actual fighting. A Clan warrior engages one enemy mech at a time. If however, another mech fires upon him he is free to return fire. A Clan Warrior will not assist another warrior who is engaging an enemy unless that enemy fired on him to begin with.

CoffiNail's "claim button" idea could work here:

http://mwomercs.com/...6334#entry46334


So there you have it, my first draft.

Edited by Jaroth Winson, 21 February 2012 - 01:21 AM.

[Gremlich Johns]

I like this first draft. It is well considered. In my view as a long time (over 20 years) Clan player, that is.

As you (Jaroth) know, we in CBS had a similar practice, only we started out with a Trial of Entry (ToE) to see if you should even be in the Clan. (Many NBT Clans had similar requirements as well - but then, NBT had several well developed Planetary Leagues) You had two tries, I believe, for the ToE. Passing this got you the rank of Mechwarrior. Immediately after successful achievement of MW rank, you had the opportunity to enter into a Trial of Position, in which, if successful, you could attain higher ranks (like Point Commander or Star Commander). You could also opt out of the Trial of Position, because if you failed, you had to start over. Until passing the ToE, no pilot could participate in drops/Matches. Galaxy Commanders HAD to be Bloodnamed.

One thing I see as a flaw is the mech assignments. While I agree with your methodology for the most part, will the Clans have people skilled in the mediums, heavies and assaults in time to fight the IS in 3050/3051? Or will there already be a core cadre of selected pilots with Dev vetting and oversight to engage as Clan warriors as soon as the Clans enter the MWO Milieu?

[Jaroth Corbett]

If you like it................................


To answer your question, it would depend on how this is implemented. At what levels do certain mechs become unlocked etc. As of right now, I cannot say.

Edited by Jaroth Winson, 14 February 2012 - 06:34 PM.

[ShoveI]

In all honesty I only skimmed over the last half of your post but got the gist of it early on. A potential problem I see is with all those people that feel that they should be in clan angry beaver because they've always been in it and don't want to play otherwise. I'm not saying it will happen but what if they are just really terrible pilots and can't finish the "training" set up so they can rain havoc on the IS? I've seen several people say that they will quit the game if they can't be in their clan when it opens up.

With that being said, why can't you open up the clans to everybody if they want to play in a clan? Contrary to popular clan belief there is some training in the IS to become a mechwarrior, it may not be as rigorous, demanding or whatever but it's still there for the most part (yes, i know there are exceptions). Why not have the clans battle other clans for the right to bid for drops against the IS, like Jade Falcon pilots drop against Ghost Bear and the same way that IS pilots gain rank in their House, clansmen gain rank in the clan. Once you attain a certain level then you are allowed to bid for drops in IS matches as well.

As far as khans go, I don't believe any player will be able to reach that rank much the same that a House player can never rule over the House. I believe there was mention in a dev blog that certain players may be able to assign planets as targets and do certain logistics though. However, once they get to a certain rank, that's it, maybe they can add more perks at certain XP levels after that, who knows.

[Jaroth Corbett]

Quote

With that being said, why can't you open up the clans to everybody if they want to play in a clan?

1. Clans should be open to ALL players.

Quote

In all honesty I only skimmed over the last half of your post but got the gist of it early on.

Clearly you did not because you did not read the post, you skimmed the bottom half. I will not take the time to get in a discussion with you if you cannot take the time to properly read the post. I mentioned people who skim TWICE in the post. Read the damn thing.

Edited by Jaroth Winson, 14 February 2012 - 06:50 PM.

[Rabbit Blacksun]

So I read the post and for the most part it seems like a damn good start. would like to point out a single discrepancy how ever not all clans operate on the 1 vs 1 standards that you have posted, while it is true that a vast majority do indeed follow that some like CSF/CDS follow a different set of rules. Would that be taken into consideration or will it just be assumed that all clans follow the same rules as CSJ CW CGB and the other "popular" clans ?

believe it or there is a very specific reason why I am asking for clarification on that particular section.

[Gimpy Warpig]

Couldn't....read...wall...of...text... Seems like you should aspire to be a novelist, not a clanner.

[Cyote13]

Sounds like the basics of a good plan only some of us would have to wait a while for our clans to open.

[Aaron DeChavilier]

<ahem>


1. how generous of you

2. Or we could do it the easier way - players are allowed to make 2 characters in one account. An IS character, and a clan one. I don't see why this is so hard to figure out.

3. When do the devs have time to play their game to the extent that entails managing a playerbase, scheduling matches, etc? How come clans would get 'admins' but the Great Houses wouldn't? could you even give me the difference between these two cases? Finally, why can't all clan units be player groups? we've been told that no player can 'run' a notable unit in the IS so how come clans get preferential treatment?

4. So, IS can force their players through training too? how about the Devs stick this as a tutorial for those that care for it? who loves a tutorial level foisted on them? Also, if you're talking about the game, you can't call the Nagelring training " pansy ***" because you are outside of the universe...(?) In terms of canon, this is a video game; treat it like an 'instance' of the canon - it won't match up 1:1 to what you want.
second paragraph; again all of this can be managed within player groups, so I don't know what you really want done special here.

5. You really don't understand the scale of a large video game, do you? the player base will number in the thousands if not tens of thousands. This solution you propose is totally ineligible by scale of the system alone. Clans won't have 1,2, or 3 galaxies...they'd have dozens - why? because it's up to the players to form player groups! Moving on; server traffic alone would bog the system down for all of these 'fight to keep your spot' deals. Too many players would be too busy handling challenges than being able to plan their groups next action. Also, who decides when these matches are done? is there a time limit? a window? what if the person loses the trial, and then the player group loses the match because their officer got swapped? what happens to cohesive player tactics if at any moment the officer roster can change? You'd have to break 'canon' (heavens no!) in order to use the now demoted officer's plan!
...Yeah, this is not some RP session with your closest associates, this is a massive scale video game - it's going to be a little impersonal

6. Interesting that you contradict the dev's design plan for mech access right of the bat here. Devs talked about things like Honor points, which sounds better than what you've got going here. I'm sure they also have a generic plan for mech acquisition that will be easily adaptable to either IS players OR clan players.

7. no derp; sequential promotions, astounding! bloodnames should be important, but not in a game limiting way rather in a game bonus or perks method. Also, whats the clan council? are you going to be able to poll all the clan groups for decisions? or on the clan-side, all the players in a group? remember you're not dealing with a dozen other high ranking clan players...but hundreds of them.

8. I'm sure player groups that have people achieve Khan/SaKhan would have a bone to pick with you. unless of course you mean game-universe style Khan, well if I can't be promoted to First Prince of the FedSun, why should I assume different for clan? I can however assume that I can become the 'Khan' of my clan player group if I am worthy and skilled.
Whos going to track performance, and by what metrics? it's easier to sit and say we'll monitor rather than explaining exactly how we measure a players 'clan-ness' (huh?) Also I propose a counter-point - a newly minted captain could in fact rest on his laurels through this one month grace period no matter how badly he performs (loophole). All he would have to do is ward off the trials, aka practicing to maintain rank (and all its privileges) would trump practicing to win real battles. Its so much easier to just let player groups sort this stuff out.

9. really? I never knew!?
I love it how you try and force people to play your way here. This is awesome, and in fact would be new territory for a game. Most games are as much about a story, as about the freedom and escapism they can provide to a player. The second a player feels like he/she is being forced to satisfy some game mechanic that hinders this freedom, the suspension of disbelief is broken.


TL:DR
Conclusion: It sounds like you want to make any possible clan player ever, conform to your singular view of how clans should play because it was like this when you RP'ed. Have some damn faith in the devs that they will bring balance to the system. Most of what you suggest is/was already managed by the players of player groups and no one seemed to have a problem with it.
Overall I do love reading the delusion, and the fact that it's a bulleted list makes it easier to form counter points. I guess the true tragedy is that Winson will never read this, it must be nice to ignore those who don't agree with you

Edited by Aaron DeChavilier, 14 February 2012 - 07:26 PM.

[Gremlich Johns]

Rabbit Blacksun, on 14 February 2012 - 07:09 PM, said:

So I read the post and for the most part it seems like a damn good start. would like to point out a single discrepancy how ever not all clans operate on the 1 vs 1 standards that you have posted, while it is true that a vast majority do indeed follow that some like CSF/CDS follow a different set of rules. Would that be taken into consideration or will it just be assumed that all clans follow the same rules as CSJ CW CGB and the other "popular" clans ?

believe it or there is a very specific reason why I am asking for clarification on that particular section.

There are indeed some basics that all clans observe. One's Trial of Entry/Position for a specific Clan will not make any difference, however, if the Player is willing to adopt a Clan's idiom. This will enrich the game, I believe. and provide some interesting color and competition amongst the four Clans. There will be no genericizing of the Clans. CDS is very different from CSJ is different from CGB is different from CW - this needs to be obvious to the IS players - keep 'em hopping.

[Ravn]

How will this effect who you play with? I am a very good pilot, whereas my little brother... needs improvement. We both love the clans. I'm in the Air Force 2000 miles away from my family, and enjoy any time I get with them be it virtual or whatever. Since I am the better player, I would still like to move up in rank and prestige whilst still playing with him. Will being in the Beta Galaxy affect that? How does you model support groups of players of different skill level that wish to play together?

[Ravn]

Aaron DeChavilier, on 14 February 2012 - 07:25 PM, said:

<ahem>


1. how generous of you
.
..
...
TL:DR
Conclusion: It sounds like you want to make any possible clan player ever, conform to your singular view of how clans should play because it was like this when you RP'ed. Have some damn faith in the devs that they will bring balance to the system. Most of what you suggest is/was already managed by the players of player groups and no one seemed to have a problem with it.
Overall I do love reading the delusion, and the fact that it's a bulleted list makes it easier to form counter points. I guess the true tragedy is that Winson will never read this, it must be nice to ignore those who don't agree with you

You have some good points, they would be better conveyed with tact and mutual respect of honest effort.

[Jaroth Corbett]

Gimpy Warpig, on 14 February 2012 - 07:12 PM, said:

Couldn't....read...wall...of...text... Seems like you should aspire to be a novelist, not a clanner.

Brain.... cannot.....absorb.....info....without.......pictures?

As for Aaron, it IS nice to ignore people who try to tell you when you can or cannot RP & try to make you feel you are doing something wrong when you violate NO laws. You brought this on yourself. I will not bend to your whims. That is why your *** is ignored. You removed the possibility of having any discussion by trying to tell me when I should or should not be in character. If you were not an *** & did that we could have still had a nice exchange. I have had nice conversations with people who have a different view to my own but they did not try to force me to act a certain way that made them feel comfortable. What a true tragedy. Maybe you will learn your lesson & not be an *** to other people. You ****** up. Deal with it.

Edited by Jaroth Winson, 14 February 2012 - 08:03 PM.

[Gremlich Johns]

@ Aaron deChevalier

Could you be a little less snide and more reasonable in your responses. Jaroth pointed out that this was what he wished would happen. Please consider this disclaimer when forumlating a post in response.

You, like the rest of us, have no real idea what this game is going to look or feel like. Presumptions prevail and ignorance runs rampant because of them. (I use that term "ignorance" as the dictionary term as intended, not to suggest anybody is of inferior intelligence, just uninformed.) The numbers of players you suggest could be low, but with sufficient servers, there will be enough of the playground to wander about in, permitting many possible experiences. This will not be EVE or WoW, I'm thinking. One MWO server would require thousands of planets if the potential player base you estimate is correct and the game restricts the number of players in a match. There could, however, even be a server that presents the Clan Homeworlds.

Nobody ever said the IS couldn't train their player audience. You must realize that Trials are part of the Clansmen culture that has developed over the years of BT/CBT/MW. The IS has not had so rich a following in my experience with the game. Again, I have played Planetary Leagues almost exclusively, so my opinions are not likely that of a typical gamer. As far as having two accounts, nobody broached the matter above your post because they don't care about having two accounts - one IS and one Clan. Have at it, if you like. I, and probably many of my fellow mechwarriors, never play anything but Clan. The IS houses, pirates, mercs, etc., do not interest me as playable factions, although with the Northwind Highlanders, there is a cultural draw with that group for me. They get to wear Kilts and play the pipes into battle!! Gotta love that.

Edited by Gremlich Johns, 14 February 2012 - 08:02 PM.

[Jaroth Corbett]

Rabbit Blacksun, on 14 February 2012 - 07:09 PM, said:

So I read the post and for the most part it seems like a damn good start. would like to point out a single discrepancy how ever not all clans operate on the 1 vs 1 standards that you have posted, while it is true that a vast majority do indeed follow that some like CSF/CDS follow a different set of rules. Would that be taken into consideration or will it just be assumed that all clans follow the same rules as CSJ CW CGB and the other "popular" clans ?

believe it or there is a very specific reason why I am asking for clarification on that particular section.

Honestly we will have to see. Remember I am basing this on my wishlist. I would expect however, that the IS would work up a quick MO of each clan they face to know what to expect. So in the case of CSF/CDS, the word would be spread, "Hey these guys fight like this......."

Thank you for your question. Rabbit.

Ravn, on 14 February 2012 - 07:35 PM, said:

How will this effect who you play with? I am a very good pilot, whereas my little brother... needs improvement. We both love the clans. I'm in the Air Force 2000 miles away from my family, and enjoy any time I get with them be it virtual or whatever. Since I am the better player, I would still like to move up in rank and prestige whilst still playing with him. Will being in the Beta Galaxy affect that? How does you model support groups of players of different skill level that wish to play together?

Thank you for your question Ravn. It made me ponder. I would have to say sub-units. Each Galaxy is comprised of Clusters which are comprised of Trinaries & Binaries. You could perhaps work out for your & your loved ones to be in the same sub-unit. Remember I only used this as an example.

Edited by Jaroth Winson, 14 February 2012 - 08:07 PM.

[Aaron DeChavilier]

Ravn, on 14 February 2012 - 07:39 PM, said:

You have some good points, they would be better conveyed with tact and mutual respect of honest effort.

I thought my wall of text was an honest effort O.o

Gremlich Johns, on 14 February 2012 - 07:49 PM, said:

@ Aaron deChevalier

Could you be a little less snide and more reasonable in your responses. Jaroth pointed out that this was what he wished would happen. Please consider this disclaimer when forumlating a post in response.

You, like the rest of us, have no real idea what this game is going to look or feel like. Presumptions prevail and ignorance runs rampant because of them. (I use that term "ignorance" as the dictionary term as intended, not to suggest anybody is of inferior intelligence, just uninformed.) The numbers of players you suggest could be low, but with sufficient servers, there will be enough of the playground to wander about in, permitting many possible experiences. This will not be EVE or WoW, I'm thinking. One MWO server would require thousands of planets if the potential player base you estimate is correct and the game restricts the number of players in a match. There could, however, even be a server that presents the Clan Homeworlds.

Nobody ever said the IS couldn't train their player audience. You must realize that Trials are part of the Clansmen culture that has developed over the years of BT/CBT/MW. The IS has not had so rich a following in my experience with the game. Again, I have played Planetary Leagues almost exclusively, so my opinions are not likely that of a typical gamer. As far as having two accounts, nobody broached the matter above your post because they don't care about having two accounts - one IS and one Clan. Have at it, if you like. I, and probably many of my fellow mechwarriors, never play anything but Clan. The IS houses, pirates, mercs, etc., do not interest me as playable factions, although with the Northwind Highlanders, there is a cultural draw with that group for me. They get to wear Kilts and play the pipes into battle!! Gotta love that.

well the guy RP's anywhere so I have no idea whether to take him seriously or not every time, I assume if he wants people to listen, then he chooses seriousness which I take him for. Also, you're absolutely correct that I have no idea what the final game will look like, but I never presumed to in this post. These were counter points with open ended questions to intend thought processes. He also doesn't start with 'I wish" he opens with 'I would like to see happen' so the tone is one that Winson believes, not merely wishing for. He also never acknowledges his own limit of knowledge or the possibility he may be wrong.
Although this may not be Eve or WoW, however, you ever play World of Tanks? I envision this to feel a lot like WoT. WoT has a healthy, large player base where you can always get matches and all 3 factions are very much represented in almost equal number. Again though, with server architecture, PGI may not have the resources to handle a ton of 'challenge' requests flying over the net from across the globe, while still updating a master map of the IS and managing larger, ever present F2P battles.
Trials are part of a fictional faction in a video game, yes. Never should a game bend over backwards to accomodate fluff. If this were the case, then Space Marines in WH40k would be unstoppable, win every battle, and no reason to play anything...else...oh...wait (clans!?). You also misread me, I never said anything about two accounts. I said two characters, much like WoW you can roll an Alliance character and a Horde character on the same account. In WoT you can have any tank you want that you unlock, in any faction, ever - and no one seems to have an issue with it. If you want a clan character only, that's fine! but why is it a problem to offer such an option to someone else!?

Jaroth Winson, on 14 February 2012 - 07:49 PM, said:

Brain.... cannot.....absorb.....info....without.......pictures?

As for Aaron, it IS nice to ignore people who try to tell you when you can or cannot RP & try to make you feel you are doing something wrong when you violate NO laws. You brought this on yourself. I will not bend to your whims. That is why your *** is ignored. You removed the possibility of having any discussion by trying to tell me when I should or should not be in character. If you were not an *** & did that we could have still had a nice exchange. I have had nice conversations with people who have a different view to my own but they did not try to force me to act a certain way that made them feel comfortable. What a true tragedy. Maybe you will learn your lesson & not be an *** to other people. You ****** up. Deal with it.

uhm, huh? are you beating a dead horse again? let me check to see if that thread's dead...mmmyup, I've moved on why can't you? What exactly did I bring on myself, so far I seem fine. Nowhere in my post did I even make any demands about you, it's called "someone else has a differing opinion." Srsly bro? you make a rant post up top about how clans should be handled, then tell me I'm the one making demands. Is it possible that my 'dealing with it' is responding to you? I think it is
You cannot make a post like this and expect everyone to just pat you on the back and say 'excellent job.' I see problems with your proposals, this is a forum, so such problems I see are then posted. I am however looking forward to Draft 2.

[Ravn]

Aaron DeChavilier, on 14 February 2012 - 08:50 PM, said:

I thought my wall of text was an honest effort O.o

Your wall was honest effort, but the emphasis was on the two key words Mutual and Respect.

[Aaron DeChavilier]

Ravn, on 14 February 2012 - 09:16 PM, said:

Your wall was honest effort, but the emphasis was on the two key words Mutual and Respect.

hey man, I'm not the one spouting off with expletives and rehashing old invalidated arguments*
perhaps Winson has done something to account for my loss of respect for him?

*said arguments were aired, debated, a solution was reached and the issue was dropped (roughly 5months ago
by my count)...except for when Winson keeps bringing it up in situations that don't even warrant it - mainly to justify the persecution complex he's rocking.

Edited by Aaron DeChavilier, 15 February 2012 - 09:54 AM.

[Maurice]

clans should be strickly canon only I Think bilike

[Rabbit Blacksun]

In the end clans and IS are going to end up getting played like the player wants them too. That is sorta the draw back and unique nature of having a MMO.

You are looking at thousands if not hundreds of thousand of real players. each with their own thinking and ideals, CSF/SW are keeping fairly close to the ideals of what their clan / parent group had in the canon (even if we did end up making a merc group for haha's) but that is part of taking a group of different people and putting them in the same place.

We cannot look at some thing with a mixing of people culture and preferences and expect them all to do the same thing, as Gremlich and I have done over our "discussions" about CSF CDS, it is not a simple matter, it is merely down to how one interprets it.

CSF/CDS use swarm tactics (this means utilizing many light and medium mechs to take down a single target and as far as I am aware they are the only clan to do this) how ever they still have their own sense of honor. Stating that CDS CSF has to maintain the same standard as clan wolf or CGB would completely void out that clans particular way of life.

Unfortunatly the only ones who know exactly what are going to happen are keeping silent on the matter, but they have listened to many things that have been brought up on the boards.

I would also go so far as to say that yes when clans launch and IF they are player based that a large number are going to switch to them, and for a bit this would indeed create an imbalance between the two, but lets face it, if you look at cannon by the time the clans start integrating into IS culture there was a serious imbalance between the two sides anyway. It is the inevitability of war that such is going to occur. Equipment wise the clans tend to run with much better weapons, while IMO IS has the better mechs (structurally). A IS can take way more damage then some of the clan mechs, where the imbalance occurs is that clans mechs can start dealing damage from farther out. So in a way it offsets that particular imbalance.

Players should be allowed to compete for any position in the clan up to and including Khan. Sorry but thats just my own thoughts on that matter, a player who is willing to put that much time and effort into becoming khan is not going to simply "sit on his heels" and not do anything, especially if they follow clan style polotics and the Khan can be challanged for his or her position.

I have noticed that there are two decidedly different sides in most of these type of arguments, the "Strict" cannon side and the MW2/3/4 video game side. combine em together and you get a fairly decent outlook on what should be considered MWO several of the "clan Faction" on mw4 merc are VERY clan like even down to their communications and issueing batchals before their matches. So I really dont see that being much of an issue, many are clan fans here, many are house fans here as well. I think it would be rather interesting to see what would happen if you let players run the factions on their own (obviously once their initial introduction was settled into place) but some are noticing how even when something new is created it tends to default into what the cannon did with out any such attempt being made.

In closing ... stop getting all rawr at each other over differences of oppinion cause i really doubt any one person is going to agree with another person on everything ... but hey i could be mistaken