402 replies to this topic

[Cassius Brown]

I quite like this redesign, particularly what's been done with the head and faceplate.

My only niggling criticism is the placement of the weapon systems on the arms. While MW:O may not have a use for mech hands due to technology limitations, the setting itself does, and the arm weapons, particularly the laser, are just terribly placed. Not that there would be any reason for a Commando to actually punch another mech, but if someone were crazy enough to do so, they'd end up destroying their own laser or SRM launcher with the first punch. I have difficulty coming up with a reason a designer would intentionally place a weapon in a position where it would be in danger of being damaged or destroyed merely by the mech reaching to pick something up.

Shorten both those weapons so they end behind the fist, and it's a solid remake.

Edited by Cassius Brown, 24 February 2012 - 11:52 AM.

[pursang]

Cassius Brown, on 24 February 2012 - 11:51 AM, said:

I quite like this redesign, particularly what's been done with the head and faceplate.

My only niggling criticism is the placement of the weapon systems on the arms. While MW:O may not have a use for mech hands due to technology limitations, the setting itself does, and the arm weapons, particularly the laser, are just terribly placed. Not that there would be any reason for a Commando to actually punch another mech, but if someone were crazy enough to do so, they'd end up destroying their own laser or SRM launcher with the first punch. I have difficulty coming up with a reason a designer would intentionally place a weapon in a position where it would be in danger of being damaged or destroyed merely by the mech reaching to pick something up.

Shorten both those weapons so they end behind the fist, and it's a solid remake.

It's more realistic the way that FD shows it - not all weapon systems are going to be the exact same size as each other, so not all of them will be able to fit in the same spot the exact same way. If you look at it closeley, the medium laser spans the entire length of the forearm. The only way to make the housing any shorter would be to replace the medium with a small or two.

Edited by pursang, 24 February 2012 - 12:11 PM.

[BarHaid]

pursang, on 24 February 2012 - 12:10 PM, said:

It's more realistic the way that FD shows it - not all weapon systems are going to be the exact same size as each other, so not all of them will be able to fit in the same spot the exact same way. If you look at it closeley, the medium laser spans the entire length of the forearm. The only way to make the housing any shorter would be to replace the medium with a small or two.

Yeah, but the laser could overhang the elbow. It looks like the SRM4 ammo storage bin does just that on the other arm.

[pursang]

BarHaid, on 24 February 2012 - 12:20 PM, said:

Yeah, but the laser could overhang the elbow. It looks like the SRM4 ammo storage bin does just that on the other arm.

We're going to have to agree to disagree here - because to me it looks like both weapons are in almost exactly the same position. Covering the lenght of the arm and the actuator.

[Cassius Brown]

pursang, on 24 February 2012 - 12:10 PM, said:

It's more realistic the way that FD shows it - not all weapon systems are going to be the exact same size as each other, so not all of them will be able to fit in the same spot the exact same way. If you look at it closeley, the medium laser spans the entire length of the forearm. The only way to make the housing any shorter would be to replace the medium with a small or two.

Not seeing the realism. Why put a weapon system in a place where it can and will be damaged or destroyed by attempting to use the hand?

We need to get out in a hurry, so the commander tells all mechs with hands to pick up boxes of supplies and make their way to better pastures. The Commando rider gets his right hand fingers under the box with a little work, and slams his left laser into the ground, armored glass first.

Seriously, the only reason to give a mech a hand is so the hand can be used. Otherwise, just give it a weapon arm like tons of other mechs and save on the cost and maintenance of the digits. If nothing else, after three hundred years of nearly constant combat, this design flaw would have come up enough times for either the design to be corrected or the system to be almost universally removed in the field.

[BarHaid]

Cassius Brown, on 24 February 2012 - 12:46 PM, said:

Not seeing the realism. Why put a weapon system in a place where it can and will be damaged or destroyed by attempting to use the hand?

We need to get out in a hurry, so the commander tells all mechs with hands to pick up boxes of supplies and make their way to better pastures. The Commando rider gets his right hand fingers under the box with a little work, and slams his left laser into the ground, armored glass first.

Seriously, the only reason to give a mech a hand is so the hand can be used. Otherwise, just give it a weapon arm like tons of other mechs and save on the cost and maintenance of the digits. If nothing else, after three hundred years of nearly constant combat, this design flaw would have come up enough times for either the design to be corrected or the system to be almost universally removed in the field.

Well now, we can always claim that centuries of use has resulted in cargo containers being designed to have mech-sized handles on the sides (so that the industrial mechs can load faster, of course).

[Cassius Brown]

BarHaid, on 24 February 2012 - 01:02 PM, said:

Well now, we can always claim that centuries of use has resulted in cargo containers being designed to have mech-sized handles on the sides (so that the industrial mechs can load faster, of course).

Sure, you could say that. Doesn't help when I need to punch my way into a building and retrieve something that wouldn't react well to being shot at, or pick up anything else that sits flush to the ground. Honestly, this is the sort of design flaw that would have come up in prototyping and test runs.

Sure, you can say that a Commando should never have a reason to punch, because as a light mech it would do minimal damage, but you can be sure that when they were designing the thing, they tested punching as part of standard "how does the vehicle react to stresses" scenarios if nothing else. The first time an engineer looked at that arm, he's going to say to his buddies, "You know, there's a thousand ways that thing's going to get damaged in everyday use, just sticking out like that. Not to mention how it impairs placement of the hand. Can't we do something else with it?"

[Zomb1e]

Cassius Brown, on 24 February 2012 - 11:51 AM, said:

I quite like this redesign, particularly what's been done with the head and faceplate.

My only niggling criticism is the placement of the weapon systems on the arms. While MW:O may not have a use for mech hands due to technology limitations, the setting itself does, and the arm weapons, particularly the laser, are just terribly placed. Not that there would be any reason for a Commando to actually punch another mech, but if someone were crazy enough to do so, they'd end up destroying their own laser or SRM launcher with the first punch. I have difficulty coming up with a reason a designer would intentionally place a weapon in a position where it would be in danger of being damaged or destroyed merely by the mech reaching to pick something up.

Shorten both those weapons so they end behind the fist, and it's a solid remake.

You know, I was just thinking about that today. The medium laser especially could do with being shortened; is there any reason for a medium laser to be that large in the first place? The SRM-4 launcher I can live with, but I hope that in the translation from concept art to in-game model, that laser gets cut down a bit to free up the hand.

[Bren]

If you look at rear part of the forearms, near the elbow, it appears that there is some sort of teeth or railing there.

To me it seems as through the weapons can be retracted rearwards somewhat to allow full use of the hands.

Plus, although it doesn't appear to fit on the laser arm, in the 'extended' position shown it looks as though the fingers on the right hand actuator can be fully extended outward and perfectly fit into the SRM's front face, creating a protective cover.

[Omega59er]

Solis Obscuri, on 23 February 2012 - 12:05 PM, said:

Clan Streak Missiles have always been pretty EZ-mode, IMO.

Hard to beat something that has good damage, low heat generation, decent cycle time, almost guaranteed accuracy, and a 500m range, without a need to aim accurately.

Yeah, exactly. It's completely legitimate in Mechwarrior4 when everyone takes nothing but heavies and assaults. I'll be the light or medium with clan strikes.

[pursang]

Cassius Brown, on 24 February 2012 - 01:19 PM, said:

Sure, you could say that. Doesn't help when I need to punch my way into a building and retrieve something that wouldn't react well to being shot at, or pick up anything else that sits flush to the ground. Honestly, this is the sort of design flaw that would have come up in prototyping and test runs.

Sure, you can say that a Commando should never have a reason to punch, because as a light mech it would do minimal damage, but you can be sure that when they were designing the thing, they tested punching as part of standard "how does the vehicle react to stresses" scenarios if nothing else. The first time an engineer looked at that arm, he's going to say to his buddies, "You know, there's a thousand ways that thing's going to get damaged in everyday use, just sticking out like that. Not to mention how it impairs placement of the hand. Can't we do something else with it?"

I highly doubt that. A scout 'Mech isn't supposed to be going toe-to-toe with other 'Mechs - or to punch a building for that matter.

And besides that, what's to stop it from doing so anyway? The laser isn't going to physically stop you from picking up things or scrapping with other 'Mechs. In fact, it may actually help in that regard. Have you ever been hit by human fist with steel knuckles?

Edited by pursang, 24 February 2012 - 07:00 PM.

[DaBlackhawk]

now that aww enspireing

[Hawk819]

Yea! I already know what I'm going to do with the beauty. All out Energy with Streak 2's.

[trycksh0t]

I promised myself I would not pilot a Light 'Mech unless it was a Valkyrie or Commando...that settles that then. Now...

Where's my Enforcer?

All joking aside, fantastic work on this one FD. Love the boxy weapon pods on the forearms, really gives the impression that you do NOT want those things pointed in your direction.

[Polymorphyne]

I wonder how cramped it is inside that head.... probably helps to be a small pilot!

[Morashtak]

Longsword, on 25 February 2012 - 02:39 AM, said:

I wonder how cramped it is inside that head.... probably helps to be a small pilot!

Thinking there's a height limit requirement along the lines of the ball turret gunners on B-17's (i.e. "The Sperry ball turret was very small in order to reduce drag, and was typically operated by the shortest man of the crew.")? Would make for some interesting RP should the game ever evolve to add it in a significant way.

[Reb]

For a scout it is one of the best.

[Kell Aset]

Looks pretty good indeed.

[Threat Doc]

I have always loved the Commando, and this one looks really good. Very nicely done, AI!!!

[ShadowMaw]

I'm not one that likes humanoid looking mechs much but this one would be ok if they bring the legs in a bit closer, lose the eye patch and remove the handle bars from its back. I do like the antenna it has on its head though. But if I have to drive a freebirth mech I will wait for the Raven for my light.