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NO!! Mechwarrior is now Pay 2 Win :(


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#41 pizza koopa

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Posted 31 October 2011 - 01:39 PM

View Postthorn, on 31 October 2011 - 01:29 PM, said:

I'm still gonna give this game a try but after discovering this game is in no way going to be like that mouth watering trailer we got long ago, my heart sank.

Thats all.

But I'm aware its not the developer's faults. Its the publishers.


I would not give up hope just yet. Free to play does not mean that the graphics or gameplay will be dumbed down. The devs have already mentioned that it will be PC exclusive because they wanted to give players more complex simulation controls. Also graphically, there is a free to play game called "The Hunter" that is a hunting simulator, the graphics in it are fantastic.

Also in the devblog on the front page, they have a couple videos up reiterating on the trailer you saw so long ago. If they felt they were overselling the vision they had in mind for the game, they would let this trailer die and never mention it again. Do not worry until we know more. Its definitely odd that a MW game is taking a free to play business model, but that does not mean its a bad thing or that its going to skew the game in a direction that MW fans would not want.

#42 Orzorn

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Posted 31 October 2011 - 01:40 PM

Many games have access to items, but you really aren't at a disadvantage if you don't purchase them. Team Fortress 2 has never had an issue with it, and neither has League of Legends (you can't purchase runes in that anyways. You have to earn them with IP earned from playing the game). Many western free to play games that I've seen are pretty fair.

Just don't get me started on the eastern style free to play games. Those ARE terrible.

#43 Sartris

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Posted 31 October 2011 - 01:44 PM

Look at the bright side. It's free. If you don't like the F2P scheme they concoct, you can walk away at no cost.

#44 rescuetoaster

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Posted 31 October 2011 - 01:46 PM

So many people are talking about F2P being this terrible thing that ruins games.. Please, I ask you to point out some examples for us.

I can counter what ever you say with a couple. But I really only need one. DDO.

Your move, irrational people.

Edited by rescuetoaster, 31 October 2011 - 01:46 PM.


#45 Starne

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Posted 31 October 2011 - 01:48 PM

First off, I think it's tiny bit early to be screaming about "this game is Pay2Win! It sux!" and "*** YOU HAVE TO PAY TO RENT MECHS!!11".
Seriously. We have a very small amount of information available to us, and people working themselves into a fury over non-existent issues is just stupid. Of course, the OP could just be trolling, but then again, maybe not.

If I had to hazard a guess as to how the F2P model will work, I would say it will mostly hinge around paying for convenience, not power. IE: making C-bills at a faster rate, gaining experience more quickly, priority on server queues, special paintjobs for mechs, ect.

#46 thorn

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Posted 31 October 2011 - 01:49 PM

Please stop overreacting. I just said I'm concerned. Not screaming "THIS GAME IS GONNA SUCK."

Edited by thorn, 31 October 2011 - 01:49 PM.


#47 barry phon

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Posted 31 October 2011 - 01:50 PM

View Postcapt-bishop, on 31 October 2011 - 12:51 PM, said:

Why did it have to go to the F2P route when all F2P games are Pay 2 Win. In this "F2P" game you pay 20 Bucks to Obtain an Mad Cat for a week. Or you dont get to Keep any mechs you aquire you "Rent" them for X Days unless you pay X amount of Dollars to Keep it forever. For shame. MW3 will always be in my heart best MW game ever.

That trailer few years back looked Kick ***. Now its a P2W game. Should of been a retail game for $49.99 I would of Bought it Day One Via Pre Order on Steam...


Sorry, but your assumptions are far from correct. Two of my favorite games, LotRO and CoH have gone F2P, and neither is anywhere close to P2W. The western F2P model has generally been very solid, compared to th Asian model, and I hate F2P in general.

#48 Buck Rogers

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Posted 31 October 2011 - 01:51 PM

Does anyone else here play World Of Tanks?

You can unlock 99% of everything available through gaining experience. It just takes a rather long time.

If you get bored, however, you can throw cash at WoT to unlock stuff instead. There is also premium ammo and a few premium tanks that are only available through cash.

I imagine MW:O will be very similar. I have absolutely no problem with that. The "have fun for free", "have even more fun if you throw money at it", business model is tried and proven. Anyone seen that Penny Arcade comic? "League Of Legends is free! It's totally free! I've spent eight thousand dollars on it!". I'm a big fan of that business model.
---Buck.

#49 Bryan Ekman

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Posted 31 October 2011 - 01:51 PM

This is a great and very important thread. Rest assured we will address this in a future blog/announcement. I think people will actually be very happy with e F2P model we have developed.

#50 chewie

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Posted 31 October 2011 - 01:54 PM

There's lots they can do with a F2P scenario.

Kinda hoping it will be like they have done with WoT.

You start at a base level in one of the houses, You grind your way to get the next level (+5Ton) of mech. If you want one that is not a standard config for your chosen house, you pay *gold* to gain access to a different config.

Scenario 1.
EG. You get the stock CN-9 with AC10, 2 meds and an LRM 10. but you want Yen-Lo-****, so you pay for 5k of gold, and purchase the config. You now have a Centurion with a big *** AC20 and a pair of mediums in the left arm.

You haven't bought anything that would confer an advantage over anyone else. Its just a different mech config.

scenario 2.
You have a pilot who is *field trained* so equivalent to 50% of what he could be. You grind on through, winning battles, making kills, gaining exp.

Or you can spend 200 gold and get him to be *elite* in that particular mech.

In fact maybe a little bit of both those ideas.


as for the people who started complaining about pay to win, why not cool yer jets and see what comes instead of scaremongering eh.

edit...apparently I cannot name this mech, because its too rude for the filters :)

But im sure you all know what im on about.

Edited by chewie, 31 October 2011 - 01:55 PM.


#51 rescuetoaster

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Posted 31 October 2011 - 01:54 PM

Buck, when I heard the description of the game I thought right away about World of Tanks.. with mechs. Which is absolutely friggen awesome!

Bryan, try to stay sane with all of these doom sayers

#52 thorn

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Posted 31 October 2011 - 01:55 PM

View PostBryan Ekman, on 31 October 2011 - 01:51 PM, said:

This is a great and very important thread. Rest assured we will address this in a future blog/announcement. I think people will actually be very happy with e F2P model we have developed.


The fact you even commented here is a great confidence booster. Thank you.

#53 Stahlseele

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Posted 31 October 2011 - 01:56 PM

Anybody know World of Tanks?
This sound suspiciously like it yet?

#54 Orzorn

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Posted 31 October 2011 - 01:58 PM

View Postthorn, on 31 October 2011 - 01:49 PM, said:

Please stop overreacting. I just said I'm concerned. Not screaming "THIS GAME IS GONNA SUCK."

I understand your concern. I've seen several games (mostly eastern) be ruined by pay-to-win schemes. However, I haven't seen a western game yet that went or was free-to-play turn into a pay-to-win situation. I think the way the game was described in the news we've gotten so far helps to put down any suspicions of pay-to-win. The devs said it themselves: They want the player to have to play to get powerful.

#55 Ilfi

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Posted 31 October 2011 - 01:59 PM

View PostBryan Ekman, on 31 October 2011 - 01:51 PM, said:

This is a great and very important thread. Rest assured we will address this in a future blog/announcement. I think people will actually be very happy with e F2P model we have developed.
So you say, and we will trust you for now (as we have no choice in the matter), but I'm sure you understand our concerns, despite some being unable to properly voice them in a mature manner. It is very easy and very tempting to use underhanded F2P strategies that make money and kill your game at the same time.

It's a dead horse, but I'll beat it once more just in case:
-Never sell power. Never sell "variety", as that almost always translates to more power.
-Everything that is sold in the Cash Shop should be attainable for free, provided you play more to get it.

#56 pizza koopa

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Posted 31 October 2011 - 02:00 PM

View PostBryan Ekman, on 31 October 2011 - 01:51 PM, said:

This is a great and very important thread. Rest assured we will address this in a future blog/announcement. I think people will actually be very happy with e F2P model we have developed.

This alone should help convince people that its not doom and gloom. Stop worrying over the fact that its F2P. Just be excited they are making a new mechwarrior game! Besides the model they have in mind might be something you very much like.

#57 CobraFive

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Posted 31 October 2011 - 02:01 PM

Hey, guys! Man, I'm pumped about this new game! also, I think F2P is the best decision they could make. I want to weight in on my opinion, because I know it can be contentious, and I know its been done wrong. I can understand why some would be worried on this descision, especially those that haven't been into any F2P scene games. But its also been done right, very right, and I have faith.

I'm going to make an overly long post summing up all of my feelings of F2P. Feel free to skip it, and I promise in the future, I'll be more concise.

There are a number of major advantages to a free to play model:

The biggest of which, development gets continuous funds. With a typical development cycle, the devs need to enter crunch time. Because there's a deadline- there has to be, otherwise you simply run out of money and the devs stop getting paid. This can easily lead to features getting cut, or an angry player base- its hard ot justify paying full price for a product that isn't fully competitive with other products in the same price range. Moreover, the funds from the launch need to support future development. The cycle continues and once the funds start to dry up, you need to launch ready or not.

F2P modeled games however, does not suffer form either of these problems. Examples (Which I will expand upon the good and bad in a moment) all prove this with Spiral Knights, World of Tanks, League of Legends, and however many MMORPGs that were flailing until the move to F2P: DDO, LOTRO, Conan... etc. The developers can release a more focused, but smaller product, and continue to expand upon the design more and more as time goes forward. If you follow valve at all you can see this in every one of their interviews: Games as a service, not as a product. They don't launch a game that makes or breaks on the first week. They make something that lives years and can grow.

But you say... buying power. This is a real and true worry to many gamers. I won't dissuade you from that- it is right to worry, and those concerns should be voiced. When done poorly, this system can completely ruin any form of competitive gameplay. However, F2P does not, automatically, mean Pay to win. Moreover, being able to buy something that aids you should not automatically be considered a death knell. They need to make money. So the system should not be that a free player must always be 100% competitive with a paying player, but rather, players must not be able to buy an advantage over others. Let me show some examples.

In World of Tanks, another free to play tactical action MMO, players can buy a number of things with real money. It is a perfect example of what does and doesn't work. The way this game works, you play as a tank- as you play you earn "Credits" and "Experience". With the experience you unlock new items, such as new guns or treads for your tanks, which have gameplay benefits, or even whole new tanks. With credits, you actually buy these items you've unlocked- even if you've unlocked them with experience, they're useless to you until you use the credits to buy them and install or activate them. Using real money, players can buy credits, straight up. Additionally, they can pay money to transfer experience from one tank to another- but they can't buy experience. They can buy a booster, which allows you to gain experience somewhat faster (%50) temporarily, but you still are only rewarded on how well you do in a match. Additionally, players are matched based on which tanks they drive: so even if you payed for boosters and rushed to a badass heavy tank, you're only playing worth other badass heavy tanks, weather they rushed with money or not. This is a perfect example of how to do it right: Paying players have no direct advantage over eachother. Anything you can earn with money you can earn with playing well and some time.

However, this is also an example on how not to do it. World of tank as well, has "premium tanks". A first this was fine: unique tanks you can only get by paying money. These tanks were nothing special, and almost universally weaker then normal tanks of the same class, or at best, would have a single defining advantage and several glaring weaknesses. It was more something for the fans then anything. However, they later on added two tanks that were obscenely powerful for their rank, and to limit their use, made them extrordinarily expensive (in the order of $40 for one tank). This was to reward dedicated players who paid. This is a colossal failure. Now, getting killed by one of these tanks is a slap in the face to anyone who does not have one. And to be competitive in the ranks including these tanks... you basically had to buy one, or simply go home.

But the good thing about the F2P model, is the design can evolve. The developers can listen to the players, which is exactly why I said: We must voice these concerns. If something falls out of line, they can fix it. Meanwhile if the game uses a typical launch-to-launch structure, fixing it might not be an options: Providing fixes for the existing content doesn't make you more money. With world of tanks, I have no faith. The developers have shown that they have no compunction charging for this advantage and have no plans to remove it. But there are plenty of other F2P games I have been heavily involved in that continue to improve, further and further.

So, sorry for the TL;DR, but I'll tone it back in the future. I guess I'm just a bit lightheaded from the thought of piloting an Atlas down a city street.

#58 wolf74

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Posted 31 October 2011 - 02:01 PM

I have thought about how I would do F2P Battletech game (Not just Mechwarrior), I love the Mechs But I also Like to do Tanks, VTOL, and Infantry.
I personally would have 3 Level of accounts:
Free account: Spent Very Little Money ($0-$49.99)
VIP account: Has Spent $50 or more buying thing
Subscription: Pays a Month Fee
for more detail It easier to point you to a post I did a fast type up on http://bg.battletech....html#msg275024

#59 Kyros von Richthofen

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Posted 31 October 2011 - 02:08 PM

The gamer and MechWarrior fan in me will throw real, cash money at this anyway, because I want to support the developers. I'll be buying all the premium content, whether there's a bundle deal on it or not.

You know, like a regular game.

Jeez, it's amazing how up-in-arms people will get over F2P as if it's suddenly sinful to spend money on a game and reward the developers for their efforts. Just treat it like any other game you actually have to pay money for and suddenly it's no big deal.

"It's free-to-play! I can't pay!" should not be your motto.

#60 wanderer

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Posted 31 October 2011 - 02:09 PM

Why speculate when we have the actual company ready to post what they have planned?

Then and only then should we comment.





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