313 replies to this topic

[Baron Kreight]

Dozer, on 12 July 2012 - 11:34 PM, said:

I'm guessing the role should be changed from Commander to Mission Support or Operations if for no other reason than it makes some people more likely to feel they aren't being 'lorded over' by the person doing it. It's then up to that person to make sure they don't go all Emperor Nero on their team mates.

Don't think so. Commander role sounds a lot more interesting. It should be most fun to have if implemented and tweaked properly.

[CommanderBoom]

Here's hoping I wont be a terrible commander, but in this instance I believe the commander is not supposed to be a micromanaging Dbag. Commander is role with a skill-set to help him process information, give other players general staging and execution parameters and to assist them with his skill-set as much as possible while performing his other role (for me Fire Support). i.e. "Lance Two take the left flank and send your scout ahead, report back. Lance One (my lance), break by pairs and engage incoming after artillery strike." obviously that's a very specific example, but you get the picture. Giving goals while letting your lance leaders handle HOW they want to accomplish goals... at least that's how I plan to do it.
Help me learn if I'm in the wrong...

Edited by CommanderBoom, 13 July 2012 - 12:09 AM.

[Dozer]

Perhaps I should have stated 'the role title should be changed"...

[Reported for Inappropriate Name]

I only follow the word of people in power I trust. I may not agree with every choice but as long as they're being made for the benefit of the group and the cause then I'll have to live with my differences.

however I'm always open to suggestions if they're in my good interests, Just be warned I have a special finger reserved for bossy strangers.

Also for all you prospective commanders out there, Let me give you a few pointers.

As a regular follower in clans (why be #1 with a target on your back when you can be the guy that watches that back) who over the years has spent his time under many "leaders" on the internet. I've noticed a few things what make a good commander.

A good commander always works with what he has, never with what he wants. meaning if you're stuck with a bad hand of cards, make it work. don't berate your men for not being better because that's a great way to lose respect.

A good commander does his homework. Once you get a group of regulars, It's good to have strategy meetings and practices. practice is not so important for good players but for newbies and average joes a single constructive practice can have incredible results. perfect practice makes perfect, after all.

A good commander acknowledges the skill of his followers, and orders them accordingly. A veteran needs nothing more than a location and a role of combat- a newbie however needs a guiding hand. Meaning if you micromanage a vet he will get incredibly upset about you invalidating his hard won abilities, and if you expect an unexperienced player to know what you mean just by saying "hold the hill west of here", then you're in for an upsetting moment.

A good commander listens to his followers, but is the master of his own decisions. Meaning when you recieve feedback or input about a battle from your followers, don't dismiss it as unimportant (unless it's irrelevant to the situation, of course.) as it may come back to bite you in the butt. You also have to be assertive in your decisions, as your word will make or break a game.


and finally, never get visibly upset or single people out in the croud, thats just unneeded drama.


I'm certain theres more but these are the outstanding things i've noticed between leaders.

Edited by Battlecruiser, 13 July 2012 - 01:12 AM.

[Feindfeuer]

Depends on how MW:O does the whole commander thing. If there is a single, dedicated commander every time it does not hurt to try to follow his orders, unless he's totaly bananas.... and maybe i'll follow his orders even than just for fun, it's a game after all and i will not get angry over a destroyed virtual space-robot.

If it's like in most online games and everyone just shouts random orders around, probably contradicting each other, it's safer and less frustrating to just ignore the group of wanna-be commanders and try to set up my own defense cause half the team is busy participating in a shouting match about who is the new Space-Rommel.
This might of course change over time, if i get to know some people who i trust with orders, and i might follow them even though there are still multiple other people shouting contradicting orders.

[Csypher]

all i have to say is the chain that binds !

[Reported for Inappropriate Name]

sometimes these internet commandos get an ego too big for their own good and start bossing people around. for field commanders that never ends well. and on the internet you're dealing with civillians usually, so it's a complete no no

trust me when I say that getting strangers to comply with you (when you cant get in butt kicking distance ;P)works much better when you make them feel like they're doing you a big favor. The become less combatitve and are more likely to do a better job when they feel good about doing it.

Dedicated Regulars on the other hand. theres often no need for formalities or hostilities because they trust you enough to do what you say the first time, and if not- well thats what practice and strategy meets are for

the crux of teamwork is trust. If at any time you're thinking " I'm not going to do what I want to do because I'm not sure what he's doing", then you have not formed a trusting bond and your abilities will be imparied due to distracting thoughts and overall hesitancy

Edited by Battlecruiser, 13 July 2012 - 12:41 AM.

[Thorgar Wulfson]

In a PUG maybe, if its not some yutz spamming the "attack now" key. In a faction or clan/guild fight hell yeah.

[Reported for Inappropriate Name]

I also forgot to mention, now any of you wot-ers can take this back there to improve your game in randoms.


It helps if you Install XVM and keep an extra eye out for players around 100-800 efficiency, or sub 48% win rate (under 48 it's not so bad until you hit <45, and then you're encroaching on the "actively contributing to losses" area), and >1000 battles. these are players you can trust to make the wrong decisions. ( if you feel that I've just insulted you, then congratulations, You've just become aware that you have a problem and all you have to do is subdue your ego to get on the path of enlightenment )

Conversely, 800 to 1100 is the level where you can regularly start to have conversations, but not expect them to be the best at killing things, unless of course they are in an artillery, and at minimum have a win rate in the upper 40's to low 50's. These are the people you should address with "hey tanker, I really need you to hold this spot so they cant flank us" or "hey tanker, come help me out and we can muscle them". just acknowledge that as a request, there is a fair chance you wont get what you want. don't get mad and berate them because it just makes things worse.

anything above 1000 usually has enough situational awareness and metagame understanding to know what you're getting at just by conveying information

But on to the main topic, You may think that "I cant play with these idiots" or "I cant trust these baddies", but this is incorrect.

a bad player is with an exception of sheer luck, going to do stupid idiotic things every time, whether it be "sniping" with nothing to shoot at, or charging head first into the enemy. you can take advantage of people like this by just reading the early warning signs of where they are and how they are driving (which was very effective pre xvm, and still serves as the best method). When the suicidal ***** is getting shot at. you have a free moment- now mind the artillery- a free moment to take advantage of the situation. they wont be shooting you right? so why not shoot at them. Keep in mind as soon as the aggressive ***** dies you will most likely be the next target. have cover prepared. and what about campers? they refuse to move no matter the request right? so if you really want them to help, you must smartly bait the enemy to you. these campers usually grow a pair after they get a few shots off, especially if they recognize that you will serve as a good distraction. but remember, you must use his gun to your advantage and refrain from getting into a bad situation where he cannot help.
There are other types of idiots of course, but you can spot their habits with simple observation. and remember, never yell at them. ever. It's counter productive in all instances. most of them have fragile egos, and the rest are old guys spending some free time, and insulting elders is bad karma.


of course, if the ***** is in a tier 10 and you are not, and he dies in the first minute then congratulations. due to the massive confidence boost he gave the enemy team, theres a good chance the match will be over in 5. but if you see a chance to turn it around, don't waste your tank . Ultimately world of tanks is a dps race (see: numbers game), so if your gun is not in the fight then you're hurting your team.

I could write a book on this stuff but my fingers are cold and tired, so enjoy

Edited by Battlecruiser, 13 July 2012 - 01:07 AM.

[Skoll Lokeson]

Depends on the commander...



If it helps my team or I have absolute faith in my commander = Yes.
If it hurts my team = No. Then I'll do what need's to be done to help my teammates and/or to win the game, even if it conflicts with a direct order.

When in doubt , win the war

[sabotssnake]

Nope, not ever.

[Viper69]

If you sign into a match as a soldier why wouldnt you follow orders, its part of the role you are playing. Unless you are RPing an A$$hole who would get a court martial and killed shortly after an engagement. Otherwise why sign up as a subordinate if you arent going to be subordinate.

Edited by Viper69, 13 July 2012 - 07:40 AM.

[Kazumi]

I'll follow orders. I've played BF2 for many years. The kids who cannot listen cost those who do games. Granted some attack orders are retarded. But if I cannot "take" A position I'll atleast do what I can to damage or slow the other team down before I die.

[PANZERBUNNY]

Doesn't take long to notice the non-****** commanders. If people want to win matches, probably best to act like a sponge and learn everything you can, working where needed.

Never be a drone, but also never be ignorant.

[Dark Fury]

Tryg, on 11 March 2012 - 10:30 AM, said:

Though my intent is to try and drop as commander with my group, should I be dropping with another group I would follow all reasonable orders to the best of my ability. But, as inevitably happens in life as with video games, when you get a commander who appears to be throwing darts at a map to determine what he's going to do next, I might have to 'mistake my coordinates' and wind up somewhere more advantageous to the team.

After all, an order for a scout mech to push through a lance of assaults to reinforce a heavy friendly engaged with yet another lance...would be a bit on the side of futility. Sure, you might zip past without taking any damage, but worst case...you catch their attention and not only get yourself killed, but bring the group along behind you to slaughter the friendly you were sent to reinforce. And we all know Commanders are fully capable of ignoring 'minor' details of such encounters.

Interesting, but what if it's the commanders plan for you to run throw the group of assaults to get their attention. Maybe they start to turn around, exposing their backs to a lance of catapults sitting on the other side of a hill. And as you were bobbing and weaving past the lumbering hulks you target one, giving 160 LRMs the chance to tear into and maybe threw one of them.

Just saying. Sometimes there's a much bigger picture then what you can see.

[Dark Fury]

Kazumi, on 13 July 2012 - 07:31 AM, said:

I'll follow orders. I've played BF2 for many years. The kids who cannot listen cost those who do games. Granted some attack orders are retarded. But if I cannot "take" A position I'll atleast do what I can to damage or slow the other team down before I die.

I couldn't agree more. Follow the order to the best of your ability. But to completely disregard an order will just set your team up for failure.

[Kobriel]

'Orders'?... Yeah, I guess I could look it up in a dictionary... I'm a lazy person, though.

But speaking of 'following', put in the same sentence with 'commanders', I remember I used to have great respect for brainy players in MW4, and I always paid attention to their suggestions. I've also been grateful for them being kind enough to make those suggestions and so help winning the battle. It felt like family. With a respected head.

[Wimmster]

If I drop as a commander, I fully expect my team to follow my orders quickly, efficiently, and to the best of their ability. It is the kind of service I would provide if I were in any other position on the team. Team effort is the key to battlefield success. Even if it cost me my "life".

That being said... With power comes responsibility. As a commander you have a responsibility to bring your mechwarriors home. You can not play frivolously with your teams "Lives" and/or equipment. Sometimes a suicidal run from a teammate can mean the difference between a win and a loss, but that is not a decision to be made lightly.

That also being said, Any commander I drop with who cannot fulfill his duties in a satisfactory manor will be put on the "Do Not Drop With List". If i find myself in a drop lobby with a commander that is or sounds younger than 16, (and I feel I'm being VERY lenient on this point) I will just not drop.

Anyone dropping under my banner should and will be fairly compensated for their sacrafice. (not to include idiots walking their mechs off cliffs and whatnot, but those sorts will not be dropping under my banner.)

Teamwork and professionalism will always win the day.

[Terbius]

Barbaric Soul, on 11 March 2012 - 07:33 PM, said:

I'll probably TK the first person that tries to be my commander in a open game.

best post in thread

[Bongo TauKat]

In an open match, I'll work for the common good, but I won't blindly follow orders.

If there is a commander role, sure as hell I will comply and crucify him/her later if they malf up good and proper.