128 replies to this topic

[IHateAtlas]

Ah, I miss the days, being behind on the games and playing the NH/NA battles on servers where the leagues had already moved on to the latest MW game. Once fragged 60 kills in a 30 minute game running my Daishi around in attrition. Never really did a lot of urban combat in Mercs though, actually having to worry about heat and ammo, so I imagine it changes things up a bit.

But, as to where I have experience, LBX-AC10's rocked a lot of worlds, probably the best balanced damage + recycle time. Properly timed, they send alpha strikes blowing up the ground in front of them instead of the all to obvious CT of my Daishi. My most favorite tactic though, is when I know they're watching, waiting for me to come around the building, just before I breach the side of the building where they can see me, I throw the throttle back. Like clockwork, their attack, sometimes even alpha strike, slams into a building across the way letting me walk out and take my carefully aimed shot. GF.

[Trevnor]

guardian wolf, on 19 March 2012 - 04:49 PM, said:

Yeah, and what you don't understand about tactics, is that if you stay completely on the defensive, you will eventually die, because we will find the positions you are hiding in, and call in artillery to smoke you out of your positions, then pick you off one by one. What you need are actual tactics, as I take great joy in hunting campers like you. And cinco, I would not be the one to try that. Mobility is key, as the camper will always either die, or not contribute, you may try to argue otherwise, but it is only when you have combined tactics that revolve around ambushes, and even then they will work the first couple of times, but people adapt. You must be able to change tactics quickly, and be able to think on your feet, while adapting to the enemy's moves. What I am trying to get across is, camp all you want, just remember I'll be cleaning up your mech's sorry husk off the floor when I'm done with you, and my lance mates will be busy picking up your mechs as salvage.

While this is the prevalent tactic to use in a city environment, don't completely rule out ambush. While I agree with you completely about mobility being key, using little ambushes here and there can have it's place. Creating an ambush, where your at low power state, and wait for someone you know will show up at a specific area, spring the ambush, and then move on for a more run/gun fight with the guy you ambushed, is a valid tactic as well. Especially if you are being pursued relentlessly.

Also, this is a question to pose to the Devs: Will there be Thunder munitions for SRM/LRMs? When I say Thunder, I refer to the missile delivered minefield.

Edited by Lt Trevnor, 20 March 2012 - 12:47 PM.

[Thorgar Wulfson]

WoW.. um no one here has heard of Dynamic Ambushing? Ambushing is not a static defense, its a moving living offensive action that lets you use the terrain to strike where least expected. It allows you to move through the terrain to pull out and reengage in consecutive rolling ambushes and hit and run strikes.

From comments ive read it seems most people believe ambushes are static unmoving defenders praying they dont get outflanked.. I guess thats true for beginners in ambushing but trust me when i say that the pros on modern battlefields know exactly what im talking about. So please forgive any earlier post of mine that I did not clarify what fun city fighting is. City figthing, if they allow us to do what is in Citytech (second Btech box set or was Aerotech second? i forget ), will allow us to do proper Dynamic Ambushing tactics that are favored in modern city fighting. Which in a game is insanely fun, real combat.. not so much (heh Gunny called it Clinch factor 8 )

Edited by Thorgar Wulfson, 20 March 2012 - 02:12 PM.

[Dnarvel]

My preference is to run around in a Light, and with being able to feed targeting data, try to set up a target lock then get the heck out of dodge with the jump jets. Failing that a mech jumping around and running amok is a good distraction.

[guardian wolf]

Lt Trevnor, on 20 March 2012 - 12:46 PM, said:

While this is the prevalent tactic to use in a city environment, don't completely rule out ambush. While I agree with you completely about mobility being key, using little ambushes here and there can have it's place. Creating an ambush, where your at low power state, and wait for someone you know will show up at a specific area, spring the ambush, and then move on for a more run/gun fight with the guy you ambushed, is a valid tactic as well. Especially if you are being pursued relentlessly.

Also, this is a question to pose to the Devs: Will there be Thunder munitions for SRM/LRMs? When I say Thunder, I refer to the missile delivered minefield.

That was what I was getting at, ambushes are useful when they are few and far between, or properly timed, not the WoT version of, let's all sit and wait for someone to make the first move.

[Halfinax]

Hop in an Urbanmech. Trundle about until someone stumbles onto you, fire that ac10, follow up with a quick shot of the small laser into that hole you just tore into their armor, JJ away, scream frantically for assitance, rinse, and repeat.

Edited by Halfinax, 21 March 2012 - 07:43 AM.

[Ulric Kell]

With weapon convergence I think it will be difficult to jump in and out of coverage behind buildings firing quickly and then ducking back into coverage. I think your urban warfare tactics will need to change.

[Wolf Hreda]

One of two Hunchback IIC's (MW4: Mercs) for me. Jump jets, obviously. The first variant has 2 CLBX20's and, like a medium laser for backup (for all the good it does me). The second, replace the AC's with 2 CGauss, and if I remember correctly, I can even add another MLAS (Yay!). The first is for infighting (or inyourfacefighting, as it were), the second is for rooftop sniping. I love them.

[Scar]

Garth Erlam, on 20 March 2012 - 11:35 AM, said:

For anyone who thinks city fighting is just 'waiting in ambush = win' wait'll you get outflanked by a Scout with ECM or something, see how that works out for you.

Garth, I swear - i don't! Just posted a funny picture from my favorite part of T&J, where Tom is setting up another one failed ambush in the urban environment. And yes, in Russia - we love this cartoon series too

Edited by Scar, 21 March 2012 - 09:38 AM.

[AC]

I hope the noobs that keep talking about the awesomeness of their assault mechs in a city realize that assaults in a real competitive team environment really didn't work that well in city fights? In MW4, a scat with ERL could dispatch a Daishi or two in no time flat. From what I have read here, assaults will handle even worse in MWO than in MW4, so I am thinking they might be victims of light mech guerrilla warfare here too.

[Karyudo ds]

AC, on 21 March 2012 - 09:51 AM, said:

I hope the noobs that keep talking about the awesomeness of their assault mechs in a city realize that assaults in a real competitive team environment really didn't work that well in city fights?

Depends, you have more weapons to smack the target with and more armor to work with. On the other hand you have to know where your enemy is. MW4's cities were lame though, streets were 100% clear (100% unlikely in a real city) and rather large while building design was all the same. If MWO has obstacles and choke-points though that Shadowcat goes from free-reign to having to divide its attention to where it's going too... plus he'd have to know where to go too, but I do see hit and runs from quick mechs, it's sort of what they did.

[Beaker]

I used to run the 2xLBX20/1xLBX10 Thor in MW4 for urban fighting, that's of I hadn't once again taken The Angry Pencil out. I used to rather like taking an arty beacon Raven out as well for flushing people out for my team to finish off. NOBODY will stay still when they have artillery dropping on their heads.

[Xinaoen]

AC, on 21 March 2012 - 09:51 AM, said:

I hope the noobs that keep talking about the awesomeness of their assault mechs in a city realize that assaults in a real competitive team environment really didn't work that well in city fights? In MW4, a scat with ERL could dispatch a Daishi or two in no time flat. From what I have read here, assaults will handle even worse in MWO than in MW4, so I am thinking they might be victims of light mech guerrilla warfare here too.

Dunno if I agree with that. An Assault 'Mech is really only practical in an environment where cover is readily available; as such, the city is almost certainly the best place for them.

Yes, Assaults are vulnerable to harassment by faster 'Mechs. Problem is, everybody knows that. In a "real competitive team environment," the heavy hitters are gonna have entire recon lances screening for them. If that Daishi doesn't see you coming a mile away, it's because a lot of people dropped the ball.

[Beaker]

Xinaoen, on 21 March 2012 - 12:15 PM, said:

Dunno if I agree with that. An Assault 'Mech is really only practical in an environment where cover is readily available; as such, the city is almost certainly the best place for them.

Yes, Assaults are vulnerable to harassment by faster 'Mechs. Problem is, everybody knows that. In a "real competitive team environment," the heavy hitters are gonna have entire recon lances screening for them. If that Daishi doesn't see you coming a mile away, it's because a lot of people dropped the ball.

From long experience, in a pick-up game most people aren't interested in anything but their own personal stats. LONG LIVE NON-RANKED SERVERS!

[Xinaoen]

Beaker, on 21 March 2012 - 12:19 PM, said:

From long experience, in a pick-up game most people aren't interested in anything but their own personal stats. LONG LIVE NON-RANKED SERVERS!

If Role Warfare and Information Warfare are working as intended, then the players who're trying to fly solo are gonna get curbstomped every time by a well coordinated team. I'm really looking forward to it, personally.

[Beaker]

Xinaoen, on 21 March 2012 - 12:30 PM, said:

If Role Warfare and Information Warfare are working as intended, then the players who're trying to fly solo are gonna get curbstomped every time by a well coordinated team. I'm really looking forward to it, personally.

likewise, I always enjoyed a good pickup team, with people who were more interested in a good game than racking their stats. I remember a guy who used Buba in Mech4 who always worked well as part of a pickup team. He knew exactly what was needed, and I'd normally see what he was running, and run with something to compliment his mech if we were on the same team.

[Rhinehart]

I hate to cool the thunder but I have to say..

Urban Combat. The Right way to do it: Not at all.

According to the Ares Conventions fighting inside a city is against the widely accepted rules of warfare. Thus it shouldn't happen at all due to the excessive risk to civillian populations in city environments.

That being said anyone who is familiar with BT/MW Canon knows the rules often got thrown out the window. But since I style myself a Mechwarrior who believes in the Conventions as necesary rules to manage conflict within the Inner Sphere I would have to opt out of any battle that might likely result in excessive civillian casualties and that would most likely mean Urban Warfare. If opting out is not an option then I would have to base my tactics on a need to absolutely minimize possible civillian casualties and colateral damage. This would mean staying away from residential areas, schools, hospitals and other likely high population targets. I would carefully husband my fire to minimize incidental damage from misses. And at all times the objective would be to draw enemy mechs away from any areas where high civillian casualties could result from a battle.

There is no other way for me to approach Urban Combat and be true to the Mechwarrior Universe as I see my place in it. If that means a heavy disadvantage for myself and my allies, well so be it. To me, this might just be a game. But to my Avatar this is a fundamental principle of his character. If that means I never get to play on the Urban Map, oh well. But I would always, always, always seek an alternative location for a battle between fusion powered machines of destruction.

To willingly choose to fight in a populated city is the first step back to rampant barbarism.Many things I may be. A Barbarian is not one of them.

[Charlic Wolf]

My favorite style of Urban Combat is a support role. I like to take a big mech and fill it up with SRMS and slowly stalk the city, sneaking up on enemies who are to busy to notice the slow beast creeping up on them and then BAM fill'em with fire. But mainly i like to take the heat for the little guys while also slowly doing the above. Not the best player but it works for me. Everyone needs a big brother to step in front of the bullet for them sometimes, even in the cold-streets.

[Gimpydrd]

I have to agree with Peachy Davion. I too am the "support/big brother" role and i feel that its always best to have maximum SRMS i just feel insecure moving as fast as a speeding snail.

[BerserX]

Rhinehart, on 21 March 2012 - 02:40 PM, said:

I hate to cool the thunder but I have to say..

Urban Combat. The Right way to do it: Not at all.

According to the Ares Conventions fighting inside a city is against the widely accepted rules of warfare. Thus it shouldn't happen at all due to the excessive risk to civillian populations in city environments.

That being said anyone who is familiar with BT/MW Canon knows the rules often got thrown out the window. But since I style myself a Mechwarrior who believes in the Conventions as necesary rules to manage conflict within the Inner Sphere I would have to opt out of any battle that might likely result in excessive civillian casualties and that would most likely mean Urban Warfare. If opting out is not an option then I would have to base my tactics on a need to absolutely minimize possible civillian casualties and colateral damage. This would mean staying away from residential areas, schools, hospitals and other likely high population targets. I would carefully husband my fire to minimize incidental damage from misses. And at all times the objective would be to draw enemy mechs away from any areas where high civillian casualties could result from a battle.

There is no other way for me to approach Urban Combat and be true to the Mechwarrior Universe as I see my place in it. If that means a heavy disadvantage for myself and my allies, well so be it. To me, this might just be a game. But to my Avatar this is a fundamental principle of his character. If that means I never get to play on the Urban Map, oh well. But I would always, always, always seek an alternative location for a battle between fusion powered machines of destruction.

To willingly choose to fight in a populated city is the first step back to rampant barbarism.Many things I may be. A Barbarian is not one of them.

WOW! - very profound!

I guess the object of war (at least my kind of war) being to protect innocent people: I would have to agree with you. I admit, when I first started playing Mechwarrior 4: Mercenaries, I did my best to minimize collateral damage too. But, when I discovered just how ridiculously indestructable the environment was, I through out the principles of David McCarthy (Flashpoint) and began doing whatever I had to, to kill my enemy. I will keep these things in mind, in MWO, and select a 'Mech that will tread lightly (within reason) in the city.

Your example should be an inspiration to us all.