131 replies to this topic

[HeadWar]

Oppi, on 19 March 2012 - 01:23 PM, said:

(btw. I find cruise control very comfortable when driving my car )

Do you find it very comfortable when driving in a straight line on a highway without changing speed, or when you are driving in city traffic?

[Togg Bott]

i used a weird setup. but it worked for me. i had a cyborg pro joystick. i configured for my left hand. (I'm right handed) the x,y axis of the joystick

was set up as throttle and turn. (foward, back, left, right.) my right hand used as 3 button mouse for torso. the combination of mouse and

joystick buttons gave me 12 mappable buttons. with 2 as switches, giving me a total of 30 funtions at my finger tips

i rarely ever touched the keyboard.

[Psydotek]

The current setup is the next best thing until throttle sticks become mandatory peripherals...

[Volume]

Personally, I feel it should be a decision left to the pilot.

I used to play a game called "Shattered Steel" and it had dynamic throttle. You didn't stop instantly when you let go of the accelerate key, but you didn't stay at maximum speed when you let go either. It was one of the better 'Mech games I've played aside from this series.

[Orzorn]

Unfortunately, keyboards to not lend themselves well to setting dynamic variable speeds with a single axis of control, like a gamepad can accomplish with its joystick.

However, a helpful addition is, as Aegis said, to have buttons that increase or decrease the throttle, so you can still have W and S set to forward and backward. The settings are still static, but using only 2 buttons helps a bit instead of using 1 through 0 for throttle.

[00dlez]

Stone Profit, on 19 March 2012 - 12:44 PM, said:

Does anyone know of a joystick with a thumb area mounted throttle? That would be ideal imo, two joysticks, with the throttle at the left hand thumb position.

My Extreme 3D Pro X30 from logitech has a left thumb throttle a a 6 button pad for my left fingers (use them for lance commands, coolant flush, etc) then have a 6 button stick + hat and the stick twists for torso moves as well, Cant recommend it enough... But I bought it in 2004... probably not made anymore.

[Cochise]

Think of a mech more like a locomotive. A locomotive has a set throttle and a hell of a lot of momentum. Same thing. It's not a Wii device. I personally am going to get a CH Products combat joystick and throttle. For a sim, the ole keyboard mouse, gamepad blah blah just doesnt do it for me.

[LordDeathStrike]

Prosperity Park, on 19 March 2012 - 11:13 AM, said:

I Disagree - the OP says using a static throttle is unrealistic; most automobiles use a dynamic throttle instead of a static throttle. If you take your foot off the gas, it doesn't automatically stay in cruise-control; it slows down. Our Mechs are set up with a static boat throttle that just cruises in one place instead of a more dynamic car throttle.

And if you were to "really" pilot this thing, then I bet you'd have the choice betwen setting a static throttle output mode and having a dynamic pressure-based throttle for highly active combat situations.

and 99.9% of people are incapable of driving without using cruise control set throttle to avoid speeding tickets, throw in the fact that you are steering, watching where you are going, getting shot at, and shooting back. they dont have any brain power left to control their speed, they need the set throttle.

[Scar]

Cochise, on 19 March 2012 - 08:11 PM, said:

Think of a mech more like a locomotive. A locomotive has a set throttle and a hell of a lot of momentum. Same thing. It's not a Wii device. I personally am going to get a CH Products combat joystick and throttle.

I wouldn't advise you to spend your money on CH Throttle - i have complete CH set(Fighterstick, Pro Throttle, Pro Pedals) and the problem with the throttle(in every game - but in MW games especially) is that you doesn't feel really good and precisely what amount of throttle you already have or amount of throttle you've changed. It happens because the slider isn't radial but straight. At the same time - radial sliders, such as Siatek X52/65 or TM Cougar/Warthog, are far more "tactile informative" and you don't need to look at it or at the throttle indicator at the bottom of HUD, because you feel the angle.

The throttle you really need for MWO should have the radial slider with a detent stage in the first third to feel the limits of the forward and reverse.

Quote

For a sim, the ole keyboard mouse, gamepad blah blah just doesnt do it for me.

MWO isn't a sim and mouse do the job far better, than stick.

Edited by Scar, 20 March 2012 - 12:02 AM.

[Hardcover]

I do believe that it has been mentioned that the game will support HOTAS setups.

[Ramrod]

cinco, on 19 March 2012 - 12:51 PM, said:

mechwarriors use a neuro helmet, so it would in fact be like walking for a human.

having a throttle doesn't make it more sim-like, it just makes it more familiar and practical.

Yeah, except that in fact Mechs are not controlled with the neurohelmet.

It is used to help the Mech maintain balance, and advanced models provide a sense of kinesthesia, and allow the pilot to fine-tune the commands he makes via the joysticks/pedals/throttle.

It's all in the fine print.

[ChalybsUmbra]

If memory serves me right, MW3 had a sort of auto-deceleration if using the arrow keys to move. That was pretty intuitive. In fact, that was my preferred control setup. Why not have MWO implement a similar but toggle-able auto-deceleration when using W/S?

[Wyzak]

Mechwarrior 3 defaulted to a control scheme where the speed of the mech would bleed off if you were not holding down the accelerator key. I will be honest, I disabled it by changing it to "Constant Throttle" just so it would be more like MW2. It does not make sense, with all the other things I will be keeping track of, to have the computer decide to lower my speed for me just because I am not holding down a button.

[ChalybsUmbra]

It's probably because I was more of a FPS guy, but I couldn't quite get the hang of throttling down or up. It made sense to me, seeing as how I thought mechs would probably use accelerators like most land vehicles, instead of throttles like aircraft.

[Naduk]

To the OP and its supporters.
So if your intending to run at full speed and to do so you need to press your foot full floor like a car.
Then you get hit by a PPC from the side, it knocks you around, your foot slips off ? what then... you slow down ? worse you stop ? worse again the sudden deceleration combine with the PPC hit and you fall over..... suddenly ...dead

However my pilot getting hit by the same PPC can fail around the whole cockpit, let go of every control.
But my mech would continue forwards at full speed and assuming my pilot could keep it standing i should be in a much safer position, possibly even out of enemy line of sight.

This is the part where the SIM aspect of MWO steps in, the game assumes your pilot needs to worry about all these things.
Where as we just press some keys or joystick buttons and with out the visual/control ques its not going to feel very SIM like.

ill be taking a air craft style throttle please.

Edited by Naduk, 20 March 2012 - 01:20 AM.

[docmorningstar]

Dynamic throttle makes sense for controller (360 etc) based setups. L-stick f/b -> go forwards/go back (just need to implement a smart controller that accelerates the mech properly) L-stick l/r -> turn mech chassis L/R. Rstick is torso/arms. Works fine for me.

For those using keyboard, it makes more sense to let the players choose between a cruise-control style throttle (old school MW) and dynamic (World of Tanks).

Flight stick guys can use the cruise control on their sticks, or dynamic, if they want...

[ChalybsUmbra]

Naduk, on 20 March 2012 - 01:17 AM, said:

To the OP and its supporters.
So if your intending to run at full speed and to do so you need to press your foot full floor like a car.
Then you get hit by a PPC from the side, it knocks you around, your foot slips off ? what then... you slow down ? worse you stop ? worse again the sudden deceleration combine with the PPC hit and you fall over..... suddenly ...dead

However my pilot getting hit by the same PPC can fail around the whole cockpit, let go of every control.
But my mech would continue forwards at full speed and assuming my pilot could keep it standing i should be in a much safer position, possibly even out of enemy line of sight.

This is the part where the SIM aspect of MWO steps in, the game assumes your pilot needs to worry about all these things.
Where as we just press some keys or joystick buttons and with out the visual/control ques its not going to feel very SIM like.

ill be taking a air craft style throttle please.

I wasn't insinuating that the mech pilot himself would be using a pedal. I'm saying that for me, the player, it's more intuitive for the mech to decelerate when not accelerating. It's not like not pressing W would mean that I want to decelerate, it's just a natural consequence of friction and air resistance. Sure there are computers to compensate and the whole sim thing, fine. I'm just saying I actually like it when a mech slows down on its own; I actually factor that into combat, especially as I'm circle-strafing someone, because I personally find it easier to vary my speed dynamically rather than throttle my mech to various speeds that I'm going to probably change in a second. It just seems less immediate? tactile? responsive? I'm sure you'll hate me for using those words, but hey, to each his own. I respect those that can throttle like it's second nature.

Edited by ChalybsUmbra, 20 March 2012 - 01:39 AM.

[autogyro]

The biggest issue with dynamic throttle is the fact that it forces you to centralise your commands around the w key (or whatever your forward movement key is). It simply doesn't lend itself towards lots of button presses, and you certainly will have difficulty using Shift-R for radar mode toggle and jump jetting whilst firing 4 out of 6 weapon groups at once on the keyboard whilst also maintaining your desired, 50% speed.

Constant throttle with w and s will free up a lot of the keyboard, including shift and ctrl modifier key commands.

And secondly, we have to stop thinking of Battlemechs as armoured bipedal humans, they are more like walking tanks.

[Oppi]

HeadWar, on 19 March 2012 - 04:53 PM, said:

Do you find it very comfortable when driving in a straight line on a highway without changing speed, or when you are driving in city traffic?

The only reason that you don't control your car by pressing the "go 50 km/h" button and letting the machine do the work (and just hit the brakes when you see red lights in front of you) is the security aspect. If you somehow fall asleep or something else happens preventing you from using the controls, the car is supposed to stop on its own so you don't hit a wall.
In a war machine there would be much less of the security stuff, because the pilot is assumed to know exactly what he's doing.

[Dataman]

did you mean we should 'hold W to going forward and when you released your finger, your mech stops?'

I don't like that idea