113 replies to this topic

[Draco Argentum]

Stubbs, on 14 October 2012 - 09:02 AM, said:

Assuming that newer mechs don't equal more powerful mechs, they could simply make new mechs available for MC one month ahead of CBills and rake in the cash. I'd be very likely to pick up a few upcoming mechs in this way.

Not a good idea. This relies on getting the balance right every time. LoL is notorious for making the new champions better. Its not as big a deal there because yo can buy them straight away for fake cash. Your idea would make the new mechs p2w for a month every time an imbalanced one was released.

Even if they never released an overpowered mech people would still claim they were overpowered. This is just about as much bad PR as genuinly OP mechs. Its simply not worth the bad publicity that will arise from restricting things with a tactical impact to MC only even for just a month.

Another issue with this is the LoL (and WoT) problem again. Both of those games make new content that is OP and then nerf it after the initial rush to buy it subsides. The temptation will be there for PGI to do the same to drive sales. It just annoys customers by burning them out on buying new content though.

[Mahws]

Great thread is great. It's good to see this getting some serious discussion and there's some really good ideas being thrown around.

Started a similair one before I had this pointed out to me. I personally think that the most important thing for the economy in the long run is going to be encouraging players to own more mechs. Custom skins and other premium thrills will certainly bring in income, but it'll all be pretty limited if you can't encourage players to get more than the three varaints necessary to level up their favourite mech. I don't see new mech releases being as effective as they could be to bring in revenue because many people will be hesitant to buy a mech that doesn't offer much more than cosmetic differences to their current builds.

Short version of the suggestions from my thread:

Mahws, on 14 October 2012 - 11:24 PM, said:

Suggestions:

1) A serious rethink of the mechbay hardpoint/slot system aimed at making mechs more limited in loadout. Customisation is important for the success of the game, but if I don't have a reason to want more mech chasises and variants then once I've got my favourite mech and kitted it out, what's left for me to grind towards or buy? Cosmetic and minor differences alone won't be enough to convince a player to drop money on a new mech.

2) Buying a new mechbay slot creates an extra step that holds players back from getting that extra mech. I know why it's there, to nudge free players into putting their money where their gametime is, but you might want to consider at the very least giving players a free extra mechbay slot when they purchase a mech with real money.

3) Remove uncessary steps to purchase. Every extra action a customer has to take to buy your product makes it less likely they will. Buying in game currency is a good business model, but it will put customers (especially first time buyers) off a microtransaction. Offering both the ability to pre-buy currency at a lesser cost or directly buy an item in game with real dollars is the best of both worlds and increases your buy rate.

4) Rethink your XP leveling system. It encourages players to buy a more variants, I understand, but it also discourages them from buying more mech types, which is your bigger attraction product. The more your railroad a player into needing to invest time in one particular type of mech the less he'll be interested in owning many different mechs. I'd suggest changing the system so that mechs earn XP level up by mech rather than individual chasis, but with a bonus to rate of XP earned based on how many of that mechs variants a player owns. Leveling up is a great long term game goal for players, but it should reward owning multiple mechs of the same chasis, not require it or you'll discourage players from playing (and thus owning) more than three mechs at a time.

5) Players need to be able to spend under $5. When you're selling an impulse buy product numbers are everything. People will happily grab two $3 snacks, but a two-pack for $5 will see them hesitate. $5 represents a price barrier, offering something small and convenient to purchase (like a twenty-four hour booster for $2 or a minor purchase currency pack) will help you to overcome that. Yes after money handling you'll make less than you would for less large purchases, but what you should really be comparing it to is how much you make when the customer doesn't buy at all. And those two or three dollar purchases will eventually ease the buyer into comfortably dropping money on better value $10 or more items. Anything you can do to ease people into making microtransactions will pay off for you in the long run.

[Norris J Packard]

Draco Argentum, on 15 October 2012 - 02:59 AM, said:

Not a good idea. This relies on getting the balance right every time. LoL is notorious for making the new champions better. Its not as big a deal there because yo can buy them straight away for fake cash. Your idea would make the new mechs p2w for a month every time an imbalanced one was released.

I agree with Draco on this, in all likelihood there will be some Mechs (particularly Clan Mechs) that will need to be reigned in. The chance for imbalance with them is far too great, and assuming the Devs do not go the way I foresee with these assets it is much too dangerous. However, that said, there are a few choices that concerning the IS Mechs we already know of that make me scratch me head. But that's an entirely different topic for an entirely different thread altogether.

Mahws, on 15 October 2012 - 04:46 AM, said:

Great thread is great. It's good to see this getting some serious discussion and there's some really good ideas being thrown around.

Started a similair one before I had this pointed out to me. I personally think that the most important thing for the economy in the long run is going to be encouraging players to own more mechs. Custom skins and other premium thrills will certainly bring in income, but it'll all be pretty limited if you can't encourage players to get more than the three varaints necessary to level up their favourite mech. I don't see new mech releases being as effective as they could be to bring in revenue because many people will be hesitant to buy a mech that doesn't offer much more than cosmetic differences to their current builds.

Short version of the suggestions from my thread:

Could I ask what you mean in the bolded text? As a rule, very few Mech are the same. And I don't see PGI adding Mechs that perform the exact same roles (in terms of hard point layouts, speed, armor, etc.) for quite some time.

As for everything else: I really like your second point and will add it to the first post. Points 1 & 3 seem... almost inconsequential. I can almost see what you are going for in the third point, but perhaps expounding upon a bit more would be good. Your first point though is entirely out of the Devs hands. All they can do is make Mechs appealing, but if someone is dead set on only using one mech, one variant, one loadout that's their business. I personally only use the Atlas (currently) but I still have one of each variant (besides the K since it is currently useless) because I can see the merits of each variant. Usually if someone is really in love with a Mech, they'll learn the other variant inside and out to see what their boons and flaws are. As for point four, yes, cheaper items are a must but I do not think they are going to come in the form of Mechs, besides ludicrously cheap Mechs anyway. Rather the "cheap" stuff will be the vanity items and secondary features.

[Mahws]

I'll cover the easy stuff first:
Number 3 might not be vitally important, but it still has a pretty big impact on sales. Having to pre-buy currency can kill impulse buys, the more steps a customer has to make and the more time it takes to get between See Something You Like > Bought Something You Like the less purchases you'll get. As a thought exercise imagine you live in a country where you can only pay in cash, but you can't carry money around on you. Everytime you want to buy something you need to go to an ATM at the back of the store and get out money. It won't really effect your big purchases, $50 or $20 items, but you probably wouldn't just duck into a store to grab a can of coke or a snack on a whim, right?

As for number 4, I was just giving examples. It's not just enough to have cheap items, they need to be cheap to buy. A $2 item doesn't function as a cheap gateway purchase if you need to put down $10 to buy it.

Quote

Could I ask what you mean in the bolded text? As a rule, very few Mech are the same. And I don't see PGI adding Mechs that perform the exact same roles (in terms of hard point layouts, speed, armor, etc.) for quite some time.

I completely and utterly disagree, here's why:

Mahws, on 14 October 2012 - 11:24 PM, said:

The date is mid 2013, a new mech has just been released. I've been waiting on this one for a while, it's the Hollander, I love that lopsided gimicky thing! I pull out my credit card, eager to get my hands on it and... I don't.

I already have the Raven 4X. I've got a 35 tonne mech I can fit a big AC on already. Sure there's a cosmetic difference, but I'd have to start over from scratch on my XP, I'd need to get three variants of it to get to a higher XP unlock level and I'd need a new mechbay slot anyway. I'm not feeling like I'm getting a great deal for my money. So I put away my card and get back to the game. I guess I'll think about getting it if I save up enough c-bills.

When the Stalker comes out will I be prepared to drop money on it when I've already got an Assualt class mech with a missile/laser build in the Awesome? Is getting the Trebuchet worth it when I can already fit two LRM 15's onto a 50 tonne mech with the Hunchback or Centurion? Will I turn my nose up at the Spider as a five tonne lighter version of the Jenner I already have?

The problem isn't just that I can fit almost the same loadout onto the mech I already have, the problem is that I have no real motivation to buy similair mechs and a bunch of reasons not to. A hardcore dedicated player who already owns a mech in each weight class isn't going to find much on offer when a new mech gets released and that is going to be a serious problem for the games real world economy in the long run.

It's the problem that faces every F2P developer, how to convince people to give them money, and just as importantly how to keep them giving you money. Unless that elephant in the room is confronted, that for the long term health of the game it needs to both be fun, but also *profitable*, then MWO may not be the success we want it to be.

When the Spider comes out, it might cost, what $5 to buy? If I'm a light mech player I'd probably want it, because I love light mechs, but I'm in no rush, I already have a mech that does everything it does, I don't feel the need to buy it, I can wait.

The mech lab is great fun as it is, but it's a disaster for a F2P game. To make adding new mechs worthwhile players will have to buy them, to make buying new mechs worthwhile there needs to be a noticeable difference between the new mech and the one you currently have. Piranha simply haven't given themselves enough to work with, shifting around the values of B/E/M + or - Modules barely gives meaningful difference to the current mechs. I'm not saying customisation needs to be dropped, but it DOES need to be more restricted.

As an Atlas pilot have you ever felt tempted to buy an Awesome because it can fulfill a function you can't? When the Stalker comes out, with its nearly identical build (Energy + Missile hardpoints) are you going to be tempted by that either? And what about mechs like the Commando, it's an unusual mech in that it carries heavy energy weapons on a light chassis, at least it would be if you couldn't just cram a heavy laser into any other light mech. If you've never thought to yourself "I love my Atlas, but I'm interested in doing X and I'd need a different Assualt mech to do that" then the game is in trouble.

The Spider will be the same as the Jenner. The Stalker will be the same as the Awesome. The Flea will be the same as the Commando. If they were coming out at the same time people would gravitate to one or the other based on cosmetic preference, but with game hours or real money sunk into obtaining/leveling the one they already have cosmetic preference won't see many people making the jump.

And that means poor sales from new mech releases. It means a drop off in sales of premium subscriptions as less people will want to grind towards new releases. It means that MWO will have to survive mostly on aesthetic purchases. And I'm not sure that's a practical reality.

EDIT:

For context, in league of legends a newly released champion won't put you back more than around $8, older champions are cheaper. MWO is currently asking $18 for an Atlas, $4.50 for a Commando. Some people might think it's worth dropping that $18 to avoid the grind and get their first Assault mech. How many do you think will be willing to do so for their second Atlas? How many will pay $18 or more for the newly released Assault when they've already invested so much in Atlases?

Either mechs need to be a lot cheaper, or they need to be unique enough and valuable enough to warrant the current price tag. If it's neither of those things new mech releases just won't generate sales.

Edited by Mahws, 15 October 2012 - 07:13 PM.

[Kazuar]

Mahws, on 15 October 2012 - 04:10 PM, said:

When the Spider comes out, it might cost, what $5 to buy? If I'm a light mech player I'd probably want it, because I love light mechs, but I'm in no rush, I already have a mech that does everything it does, I don't feel the need to buy it, I can wait.

The mech lab is great fun as it is, but it's a disaster for a F2P game. To make adding new mechs worthwhile players will have to buy them, to make buying new mechs worthwhile there needs to be a noticeable difference between the new mech and the one you currently have. Piranha simply haven't given themselves enough to work with, shifting around the values of B/E/M + or - Modules barely gives meaningful difference to the current mechs. I'm not saying customisation needs to be dropped, but it DOES need to be more restricted.

Hmm, regarding modules: how big their influence is when it comes to choosing a mech depends on what kinds of modules are still being w-i-p. I mean, we don't even have differences in module slots between our mechs, yet. However, people will likely gravitate towards the mech with the 'module/loadout ratio' closest to the 'usefulness ratio' between modules and 'other factors'.

Regarding 'I can wait': that's why I thought about C-Bill sinks. Ideally, the c-bills per match (and the reward felt for gaining them) should be unchanged objectively and subjectively, but with more options to expend them, there might be greater incentive to increase/save your c-bills (premium/mech4cash).

But you're right; doesn't help when your only reason to buy is 'I have spare c-bills', instead of 'gives me more playstyle options'. I'm inclined to agree with your assessment of the mechlab, but it's also an important feature of MW:O. It's (as far as I see it) impossible to mess here without simultaneously touching a lot of other things (trial vs. owned mechs | player progression speed | 'established' vs. 'beginning' player balance, to name a few).

Maybe trying to emphasize the intended role/loadout, without forbidding reducing the builds possible. But how?
Give 'stock' items, that are in their 'stock slot' a bonus to internal hp? Make convergence speed a hardpoint property, given in tondegrees per second (t°/s), i.e. you can put a heavy laser or two on your jenner, but a commando can aim it faster?
As it is, I wouldn't want a HBK-4J, because I have a -4SP, and can give it the same amounts of LRMs, with better survivability. If, however, LRM on a -4J would somehow outperform the same loadout on a -4SP, I had a reason to use (and own) both. Damage, Heat and cycle length should imho still remain the same, but what secondary, chassis-dependant property would make me prefer the -4J?

How about the heatlimit? E.g. 'effective heatlimit = (30 + '# of HS') * ('tonnage of all custom components' / 'mech total tonnage')? That way, a commando with a PPC had a better heatlimit than a jenner with one (since changing an LL to PPC is changing less tonnage than changing 2 ML to 1 PPC), giving me an actual reason to own both chassis, without invalidating a light mech that's essentially a bfg on legs and isn't announced/planned yet any mech that exists, or is yet to come.

Edit: Reworded/added for clarity (language barrier has me again, sorry...)

Edited by Kazuar, 16 October 2012 - 09:12 AM.

[RG Notch]

So basically going P2W and letting in the gold sellers is the route to success, wow and I thought the people that think selling hats is the secret were bad. Why beat around the bush and just sell straight out better mechs for real money that would work I guess.

[Kazuar]

RG Notch, on 16 October 2012 - 06:56 AM, said:

So basically going P2W and letting in the gold sellers is the route to success, [...]

Are you referencing any particular idea?

RG Notch, on 16 October 2012 - 06:56 AM, said:

wow and I thought the people that think selling hats is the secret were bad. Why beat around the bush and just sell straight out better mechs for real money that would work I guess.

Hats are great because they provide no in-game benefit (afaik), yet people pay money for them. Like camos, decals, skins or active nose art.
If you mean 'better' as in stronger (more armor | more damage | more hardpoints), then to my knowledge, it's not the direction this game is planned to go for.
If you mean 'better' as in convenient, shiny, but ultimately balanced in-game, then it *might* work. After all, a founders mech *is* better than a regular, no? Yet there is nothing a founders mech can do, that a common mech can't. I, personally, am completely fine with that.

[RG Notch]

Kazuar, on 16 October 2012 - 08:54 AM, said:

Are you referencing any particular idea?



Hats are great because they provide no in-game benefit (afaik), yet people pay money for them. Like camos, decals, skins or active nose art.
If you mean 'better' as in stronger (more armor | more damage | more hardpoints), then to my knowledge, it's not the direction this game is planned to go for.
If you mean 'better' as in convenient, shiny, but ultimately balanced in-game, then it *might* work. After all, a founders mech *is* better than a regular, no? Yet there is nothing a founders mech can do, that a common mech can't. I, personally, am completely fine with that.

Quite simply the ability to trade anything will simply bring in the gold or in this case MC farmers and the "useful" vanity items is simply P2W lite, so why not go all out?
Hats are silly because a tiny % of the population will actually spend anymore than a negligible amount on cosmetics.
I love the people making sure the devs see this, because I'm pretty sure they just use the first idea they come up with and don't consider any other alternatives, like people on the forums are going to have the answers.

[CCC Dober]

OP: I have a feeling the current economy isn't what it could be for a simple reason: CW is missing. There is no endgame or metagame to speak of right now. When you spend MC, you prolly want them to make a difference in the bigger picture as they are not easy to come by atm (cash only). Right now I'd have to spend them blindly and the available options are not really appealing to me.

Premium time feels like training wheels on a quad and I wouldn't even want them on a bike to begin with. The Mechbays are so uninspired and a total PITA tbh. If you ever buy a Mech with MC, that bay better be on top or it's a total rip-off. I'm bored to death by these WoT-knockoff hangar slots that are equally uninspired in that very game. If I'm ever dropping money on bays, then let it be for a glorious Mammoth dropship or give us a couple choices that actually represent or include those hangars in a BT kind of sense with additional benefits.

A dropship itself might come in handy later down the road in CW, so it's more than just the sum of its hangars. I don't mind if it costs an arm, a leg and a nut if the benefits outweigh the costs. It would be awesome to own such a monster and have it land on a map, spitting fire left right and center while dropping waves after waves of Mechs like there's no tomorrow. Dropship assault/mode would finally be something worth looking forward to because you'd have an impact on what kind of firepower you could bring to the table, depending on your company's dropship/s.

Another thing I'd like to see later down the road are different weapon and Mech manufacturers. First of all, each of them has a different idea of how to build and tune weapons. We have been denied the chance to experience their different philosophies in pretty much all of the past MW and MC games. Each weapon and Mech had a consistent build quality and manufacturers were pretty much non-existent. Breaking news: in the world of BT every Mech has a unique performance profile, even if it's from the same assembly line and the same model.

I'd pay MCs for custom built Mechs and weapon systems and if the system is fair in regards to average Mechs/weapons as we see now (custom Mechs/weapons with both advantages and disadvantages) then I can see people going for it. Solaris seems like a good place to start this as custom Mechs would most likely be assembled and used in this environment. But that would probably be just the beginning.

Sorry for rambling, just felt like sharing the pictures in my head. Carry on =)

Edited by CCC Dober, 16 October 2012 - 09:46 AM.

[Norris J Packard]

RG Notch, on 16 October 2012 - 09:37 AM, said:

Hats are silly because a tiny % of the population will actually spend anymore than a negligible amount on cosmetics.

Notch, you realize that TF2's Hat economy alone is worth over 50 million dollars, right? That's 10 times the value of all Founders packages combined. Now tell me again how cosmetics won't drag in oceans of money for PGI?

Edited by Norris J Packard, 16 October 2012 - 12:20 PM.

[RG Notch]

Norris J Packard, on 16 October 2012 - 12:19 PM, said:

Notch, you realize that TF2's Hat economy alone is worth over 50 million dollars, right? That's 10 times the value of all Founders packages combined. Now tell me again how cosmetics won't drag in oceans of money for PGI?

So why don't they sell hats? All the same nonsense how people will pay for cosmetics, I point out Battlefield Heroes as a game that banked on cosmetics and nearly tanked. Of course the one example that works trounces the example of failure. I guess the PGI folks are dumb as since TF2 makes money off of hats everyone should. Anyways when your F2P game based on selling cosmetics only makes a profit I will happily play it for free as I'm not a fool who needs to be parted from his money to look different.
So once PGI smartens up and only sells skins and decals I won't need to spend another penny and the game will be raking in the cash. Seriously, I wish PGI would do that, I mean who wouldn't want to play for free subsidized by suckers, except I know that when they have to actually sell things that matter it may be too late.
I really don't play a lot of F2P as I'm not a pauper and all you get is whining that the specs are too high for someone's ancient word processor and if you sell anything other than ******* hats it's P2W, so I don't have a lot of experience. But it seems to me the one's I've played have sold a lot more than cosmetics, so the one off of TF2, which I've never played doesn't mean much to me.

[Sandpit]

It might also be feasible to have certain mechs be house specific or at least certain variants. In TT lore many mechs were faction specific. Davion was known for energy based weapon systems for their mechs, etc. That's what many of the letter designations in mech names are for. EG: Jenner-7D variant is a 4 laser variant with no SRMs. So if you choose Davion as a faction that variant is available to you but in order for other factions to purchase that specific variant they must use a portion of their MC to purchase it.

The auction house idea could be implemented using a slight tweak to your suggestion. Instead of using it to sell mechs at a slightly higher
c-bill price you could have to use MC to access or bid on mechs placed there. So for instance: I place a mech in the auction house for XX amount of c-bills which is cheaper than you can purchase new but more than I can sell back on my own. In order for you to place a bid on the mech you have to use MC as an escrow fee. Now this isn't much of an incentive at first glance but if you can add hero mechs, exceptionally rare variants, etc.

Another option is once Clan tech is instituted you can add fees like this for modding IS mechs with clan tech. This could go to show the extra tech time and expertise needed to adapt this tech into IS mechs. Now before anyone scream P2W on this idea that doesn't mean you have to pay that MC fee to purchase a clan mech it merely means you have to pay it to adapt it to IS mechs. These are just some general ideas I came up with to kind of expand on the ideas you mentioned in your post.

[KuruptU4Fun]

Norris I guess my question is this; (haven't seen it asked) once you pre-order the mech you want how do you get the variants to build the pilot skills?

Do you suggest further MC purchases for each variant?
Maybe with the Mech bay reservations you get 2 variant bays to scroll up/down to? Any other variants past the 2 needed to built into elite and master skills can be purchased at a reduced MC cost..
Possibly since you're buying the mech frame itself you get heavy discounts on variants?

You've noted that you have 20+ million CBills but if you buy just 2 variants of an Atlas you've just dropped down to roughly 2 million. That's still a lot (and I mean a lot) of grind to get back all the money you've made..

[Sandpit]

I would also like to suggest another format option. Even though the game is F2P it wouldn't be a bad idea to add in a monthly subscription option for those who want it. It's hard to suggest what entirely you could offer for this sub fee at this point because we don't know what the game will have once it is completed and the meta game is instituted. A general idea could be a C-Bill and MC stipend or allowance given to you at the beginning of each cycle and a bonus to your exp earned. You could get a bonus and discount to purchases in game, etc. You could get extra hangar bays for a monthly scrip. I'm the type of person that I don't want to have to do micro-transactions and monthly recurring billing but if you gave me the option I would buy a 6 month or 1 year subscription in one lump sum.

[Norris J Packard]

RG Notch, on 16 October 2012 - 12:57 PM, said:

So why don't they sell hats? All the same nonsense how people will pay for cosmetics, I point out Battlefield Heroes as a game that banked on cosmetics and nearly tanked. Of course the one example that works trounces the example of failure. I guess the PGI folks are dumb as since TF2 makes money off of hats everyone should. Anyways when your F2P game based on selling cosmetics only makes a profit I will happily play it for free as I'm not a fool who needs to be parted from his money to look different.
So once PGI smartens up and only sells skins and decals I won't need to spend another penny and the game will be raking in the cash. Seriously, I wish PGI would do that, I mean who wouldn't want to play for free subsidized by suckers, except I know that when they have to actually sell things that matter it may be too late.
I really don't play a lot of F2P as I'm not a pauper and all you get is whining that the specs are too high for someone's ancient word processor and if you sell anything other than ******* hats it's P2W, so I don't have a lot of experience. But it seems to me the one's I've played have sold a lot more than cosmetics, so the one off of TF2, which I've never played doesn't mean much to me.

Notch, the analogy of Hats is vanity items. That's what me and Kazuar have been discussing this entire time. Camo/Paints/Decals/Pinups/etc. All of them are basically just a derivative of hats. We aren't actually suggesting (well I'm not) that we have the ability to put a hat on our Mech.

CCC Dober, on 16 October 2012 - 09:43 AM, said:

OP: I have a feeling the current economy isn't what it could be for a simple reason: CW is missing. There is no endgame or metagame to speak of right now. When you spend MC, you prolly want them to make a difference in the bigger picture as they are not easy to come by atm (cash only). Right now I'd have to spend them blindly and the available options are not really appealing to me.

CCC, I only cut out a large portion of your post just so it doesn't take up a huge portion of people's screen. But are you talking about potentially adding in different styles of Mechbays at the cost of MC? If so, that's a pretty neat idea.

KuruptU4Fun, on 16 October 2012 - 01:46 PM, said:

Norris I guess my question is this; (haven't seen it asked) once you pre-order the mech you want how do you get the variants to build the pilot skills?

Do you suggest further MC purchases for each variant?
Maybe with the Mech bay reservations you get 2 variant bays to scroll up/down to? Any other variants past the 2 needed to built into elite and master skills can be purchased at a reduced MC cost..
Possibly since you're buying the mech frame itself you get heavy discounts on variants?

You've noted that you have 20+ million CBills but if you buy just 2 variants of an Atlas you've just dropped down to roughly 2 million. That's still a lot (and I mean a lot) of grind to get back all the money you've made..

I see your first question, and I sorta answered this in the original post. Basically you could (should) have the ability to pre-order a specific variant of the Mech. I didn't go into detail about that simply because it would have taken up a larger portion of my post and would have been relatively redundant.

As for your second one, are we talking hypothetically just the Mech being pre-ordered? Because the idea would be for people to influence the turn out on Mechs, and if they wanted to further attempt to influence this they could buy multiple Mechs. Therefore, if we are to assume that PGI is sensible and allows people to pre-order different variants of the same Mech that it would certainly be possible to do just that. That said, remember, when you pre-order, you pre-order. There's no actual guarantee on a time frame, or even if the Mech you pre-ordered will be the first one worked on. I mean, you'd literally have a month (or more) to grind with your Mechs until the pre-orders are released. And then say you don't like the Mech? Great, just sell it at half price and you've still got all of the CBills (plus more) saved up.

Finally, I don't see any real reason as to why PGI should implement an extremely flexible pre-order bonus. It'd be nice, but I wouldn't suggest it because in all likelihood it'd be ignored. They are trying to make money after all. Perhaps a Pre-Order Bonus that works the same as Founders Mechs? Would that be sufficient?

[Norris J Packard]

Sandpit, on 16 October 2012 - 01:59 PM, said:

I would also like to suggest another format option. Even though the game is F2P it wouldn't be a bad idea to add in a monthly subscription option for those who want it. It's hard to suggest what entirely you could offer for this sub fee at this point because we don't know what the game will have once it is completed and the meta game is instituted. A general idea could be a C-Bill and MC stipend or allowance given to you at the beginning of each cycle and a bonus to your exp earned. You could get a bonus and discount to purchases in game, etc. You could get extra hangar bays for a monthly scrip. I'm the type of person that I don't want to have to do micro-transactions and monthly recurring billing but if you gave me the option I would buy a 6 month or 1 year subscription in one lump sum.

A MC Subscription is an oft suggested idea, so I will throw it up there along with everything else later tonight.

[RG Notch]

Norris J Packard, on 16 October 2012 - 02:20 PM, said:

Notch, the analogy of Hats is vanity items. That's what me and Kazuar have been discussing this entire time. Camo/Paints/Decals/Pinups/etc. All of them are basically just a derivative of hats. We aren't actually suggesting (well I'm not) that we have the ability to put a hat on our Mech.

Ah sarcasm is wasted here I see. I get it, decals, skins and what not simply aren't enough to fund a game like this. I wish they were because I would't need a dime to play. If it doesn't help me earn credits or XP faster or skip grinding I am not spending any real money on it. Why would I? More importantly why would enough people spend enough to matter?

[Sandpit]

On the idea of real world items:

I have personally plunked tons of money over the years into BT miniatures and such and I'd definitely buy a few odds and ends here especially if I could get a mini of my preferred mech maybe customized to fit MWO. It doesn't mean much to anyone else but it would be cool to me and I'm sure there are at least a few BT fans out there that would feel the same. Heck give me a keychain with the MWO logo on one side and my callsign on the other. Dog tags, things of that nature would be pretty cool to have. Everyone on here is obviously a gamer and it's a common tactic of game companies now to sell limited edition packs for a higher price point that include maps, figurines, etc. I'd be willing to drop a few extra bucks here and there to buy some cool MWO merchandise and I'm sure there are others who feel the same.
Things like that can definitely be a cool incentive to spend money after the fact on the game.

[Amechwarrior]

I like the ideas in general. Just want to say I love the "Active Kills Paint Job" idea. You could even branch it out for scouts and turn it in to a "Scouting/TAG Counter" with a slightly different hash mark from a kills counter and make it so 1 mark = 5 to counter the fact that scoutings are going to be more numerous and faster to tally up then kills.

You could even do this with the cash covered "The Bounty Hunter" skinning. Make it a skin where your mech is covered in cash, but the color(value) of the bills over your body changed relative to the amount in your bank account. Like if you had 10 million you would be predominantly covered in yellow C-Bills with a smattering of red and green, 30 mil gets you primarily red C-Bills and 50mil green. If you blew your 50mil your cash skin would go back to cheaper yellow c-bills. Those colors and values are just something I made up and would have to be more thought out if implemented but you get the point. They would basically act as a live barometer of how rich you are to show off to other players.

Edited by Amechwarrior, 16 October 2012 - 02:54 PM.

[JazzySteel]

RG Notch, on 16 October 2012 - 02:42 PM, said:

Ah sarcasm is wasted here I see. I get it, decals, skins and what not simply aren't enough to fund a game like this. I wish they were because I would't need a dime to play. If it doesn't help me earn credits or XP faster or skip grinding I am not spending any real money on it. Why would I? More importantly why would enough people spend enough to matter?

Because people spend an inordinate amount of money on their individuality. To many many people the ability to simply "look good' is well worth their money. Heck, you dont even have to look good, they just wanna look "different". Now, this wont make sense to someone who is objectively minded and is only worried about their bottom line, but most of the population doesnt think like that.