120 replies to this topic

[Razor Kotovsky]

Amarus Cameron, on 04 November 2011 - 04:09 AM, said:

Yes there is BV but it is not always a good indicator, by BV a star of firemoths are worth less than a lance of heavy IS mechs, but the firemoths will win everytime.

How about two lances of Bushwackers and Owenii vs two stars of firemoths?

Edited by Razor Kotovsky, 04 November 2011 - 04:16 AM.

[Amarus Cameron]

Razor Kotovsky, on 04 November 2011 - 04:15 AM, said:

How about two lances of Bushwackers and Owenii?

I wouls still put my money on the firemoths, but it would most likely be BV even there lol

[Frantic Pryde]

Well an honor based xp and reward system for honor could maybe work. It's hard to say now since we don't know exactly how they implanting anything at this point but I have a feeling we will see something at least similar to that. Making leveling more difficult without strict zell adherence would certainly make people play by the rules. I'm sure you will get the people who will break those rules on occasion but that did actually happen so it still works I think.

[Zendric]

Razor Kotovsky, on 04 November 2011 - 04:15 AM, said:

How about two lances of Bushwackers and Owenii vs two stars of firemoths?

With standard IS pilots?

Lol, one Fire Moth could take out that trash.

[Frantic Pryde]

Also, we can just slighty alter the story and make Kai allard Liao present at every is vs clan battle

[Amarus Cameron]

frantic pryde, on 04 November 2011 - 04:16 AM, said:

Well an honor based xp and reward system for honor could maybe work. It's hard to say now since we don't know exactly how they implanting anything at this point but I have a feeling we will see something at least similar to that. Making leveling more difficult without strict zell adherence would certainly make people play by the rules. I'm sure you will get the people who will break those rules on occasion but that did actually happen so it still works I think.

I will fight exactly how the smoke jaguars fought, Level 1 and Level 2 zellbringen, that will depend on if I am in different units. Either way I will need to rely on my star mates to keep the dishonorable surats off my back.

[Razor Kotovsky]

Most logical is you either get to join clans as captured sphere trash or make a new, trueborn, char.

Roleplaying is one of the biggest pillars of BT.

Zendric, on 04 November 2011 - 04:17 AM, said:

With standard IS pilots?

Lol, one Fire Moth could take out that trash.

This isn't the roleplaying forum, vatborn.

Edited by Razor Kotovsky, 04 November 2011 - 04:24 AM.

[Sideways]

Also to follow up, take into account that depending on how long this game continues, we are eventually going to hit the higher levels of IS tech and the unholy OMFGISD (Oh My ******* *** I'm So Dead) mechs like the Fafnir and then even further down the road to the Jihad and onto Darkage....while I personally hate this time period it does exist. Are we going to Ban player from WOB....etc aswell? or are you all going to accept that this game, if pulled off right, and so far seems to be, is for the FANS!!! aka, they guys and girls who have been playing since the invasion and before, and since, those of us who grew up with MW2 all the way to the clicky tech games of today, and a sizeable portion of us WANT clan, You are potentially loosing alot of money and players to homemade mods such as MWLL or the MW4Mercs communities.

[Zendric]

Sideways, on 04 November 2011 - 04:21 AM, said:

Also to follow up, take into account that depending on how long this game continues, we are eventually going to hit the higher levels of IS tech and the unholy OMFGISD (Oh My ******* *** I'm So Dead) mechs like the Fafnir and then even further down the road to the Jihad and onto Darkage....while I personally hate this time period it does exist. Are we going to Ban player from WOB....etc aswell? or are you all going to accept that this game, if pulled off right, and so far seems to be, is for the FANS!!! aka, they guys and girls who have been playing since the invasion and before, and since, those of us who grew up with MW2 all the way to the clicky tech games of today, and a sizeable portion of us WANT clan, You are potentially loosing alot of money and players to homemade mods such as MWLL or the MW4Mercs communities.

I agree with everything except the Fafnir comment, Fafnir is the Assault Urbanmech. Terrible against everything until you walk around the corner of a building where it has deployed itself and BAM, double HGauss.

Edited by Zendric, 04 November 2011 - 04:24 AM.

[Rhinehart]

Personally I never wanted to play the Clans nearly as much as I wanted to defeat them. Aside from the fact of their whole class specific, non-mobile "we are the 1%" warrior first society, How could you not want that chalenge? When you have all the edge Clan Tech gives you should be expected to win. But take a 3025 chassis and defeat a foe of similar or even greater combat potential using smart tactics, skill and some plain old luck and then you accomplished something!

[Amarus Cameron]

Razor Kotovsky, on 04 November 2011 - 04:20 AM, said:

Most logical is you either get to join clans as captured sphere trash or make a new, trueborn, char.

Roleplaying is one of the biggest pillars of BT.

I would be my new Clan character as I have an established character I have been RPing as for quite some time.
IS is just temporary because I have no other choice

[Amarus Cameron]

Rhinehart, on 04 November 2011 - 04:24 AM, said:

Personally I never wanted to play the Clans nearly as much as I wanted to defeat them. Aside from the fact of their whole class specific, non-mobile "we are the 1%" warrior first society, How could you not want that chalenge? When you have all the edge Clan Tech gives you should be expected to win. But take a 3025 chassis and defeat a foe of similar or even greater combat potential using smart tactics, skill and some plain old luck and then you accomplished something!

You could not be more incorrect, the caste system is completely mobile. All clansmen take aptitude tests, for warriors it is a trial of position, why do you think washouts become techs or scientists or freeborn become warriors, that is because you have a choice. If you are an artist your work is celebrated, if you can trade well but were born into a laborer family you will most likely become a merchant, the best aptitude for the caste will be placed in said caste. Why Spheroids think it is the Hindu caste system is beyond me, this is something new, something distinctly clan.

[Sideways]

Razor Kotovsky, on 04 November 2011 - 04:07 AM, said:

Players ofc. But there is no reason in letting them fight IS players without being outnumbered or somehow balanced via other means.

I heard there is something called BV in tabletop, c/d?

P.S.: Stop baiting, vatborns.

Like I said, if we are debating the use of bots in the first place, use them to fill out the IS ranks that are supposed to be much larger forces anyway. We've taken entire planets with just a Nova's worth or less of Mechs.

[Woodstock]

How are we losing people if we say ...sure you can join the clans ... just enter this contest against other aspirants and win. And hey presto your can make a clan character. Simple.

The only place we will get roleplaying will be on the forums. The game does not seem to be geared up for a persistent world ala wow or Eve etc. Its a combat game with persistent effects.

Have weekly ... he/l daily contests if you want. We have a year of preparing before any clanners arrive.

[Amarus Cameron]

woodstock, on 04 November 2011 - 04:30 AM, said:

How are we losing people if we say ...sure you can join the clans ... just enter this contest against other aspirants and win. And hey presto your can make a clan character. Simple.

The only place we will get roleplaying will be on the forums. The game does not seem to be geared up for a persistent world ala wow or Eve etc. Its a combat game with persistent effects.

Have weekly ... he/l daily contests if you want. We have a year of preparing before any clanners arrive.

I agree with this comment. And again I say different levels of success get you different positions in the touman. As always you should be able to declare a trial of possession for what you want/need. And as you do well positional trials will become available.

Edited by Amarus Cameron, 04 November 2011 - 04:33 AM.

[Woodstock]

Not trying to specify the details ... I do think the whole thing needs to be very accessible as if its not then people will be upset. So run 'trials of position' in each major timezone. etc.

[Amarus Cameron]

woodstock, on 04 November 2011 - 04:34 AM, said:

Not trying to specify the details ... I do think the whole thing needs to be very accessible as if its not then people will be upset. So run 'trials of position' in each major timezone. etc.

Makes sense to me, but there still needs to be an overall, ok this is when we run command trials, submit your codexes and be there at this time otherwise sorry but you forfit. As without a clear command for the Clan, it will devolve into Cluster based combat quickly, which will not secure us many worlds.

[Rhinehart]

Heh I know I'm throwing myself to the wolves on this one...

I never wanted to play the Clans because I thought they were created by the biggest coward that ever lived. At the end of the War of the Usurper, the Five Houses were prepared to subject civilized space to generations of warfare, even usuing Nuclear weapons. One man could've united the people behind him, defeated them and forged a new Star League, the "Hero" Alexander Kerensky. But he didn't have the stomach for that fight. So he bailed out on the entire human race excepting only those that had the means to join him and wanted to become outcasts. And the result? A society where individual freedoms only reach as far as class boundarys and where virtually any offence can and has been at one time or another justified by the phrase "For the Glory of Clan Insert name of totem animal here." Given all their infighting and poliyical squabbling the Clans seem like as society with everything the Inner Sphere has except for better Tech and less freedom in exchange for better security as long as you aren't a member of the Warrior Caste. Not that the Star League was any bed of roses if you read the history closely. Even during the "Golden Age" there was plenty of conflict if not on the vast scale of the Succession Wars. But those are the worlds we live in. I'll take my flawed Inner Sphere society thanks, especially since I have the right to fight for it no matter where my genes come from. you can keep your Clan "Honor". Honor was around long before the Clans supposedly invented it. The only thing Clan I want is some salvage and maybe a couple of pretty Bondswomen, but only if they both come with no strings attached.

[aglarang]

The whole problem with the clanners being brought in is that they have such superior technology. You run the risk of a few things happening if players are allowed to play as clanners AND their technology in game is as superior as it is depicted in the actual pen and paper game.
1) You get these kids who rush to play clanners because they want to kick tail and bethe baddest of the bad, then come onto the forums and gloat about how great they are. Do not think it will not happen because it always does. Everyone else complains about how unfair it is.
2) There is a huge rush to play the clans because they get superior tech creating a huge imbalance. If access to clans is limited, then you get a lot of hurt feelings from these that want to be the baddest of the bad who don't get their shot and how unfair it is.
3) If there is some sort of battle value pairing, then what happens if the IS actually beats the clans consistently (which I can see happening due to the fact that the people playing IS will be the ones who want to and will very possibly include very good players who want to play the game as the underdog or because they desire a challenge and may include a lot of MW veterans who are loyal to their houses etc.) Then the clan kids will claim it isn't fair because they are supposed to be winning and that the system is broken.

Honestly, I do not think allowing players to play clans without making the tech as even as possible will result in anything but a lot of whining and complaining to PGI. So, I vote Bots (until the tech evens out some.)

[Amarus Cameron]

Rhinehart, on 04 November 2011 - 04:42 AM, said:

Heh I know I'm throwing myself to the wolves on this one...

I never wanted to play the Clans because I thought they were created by the biggest coward that ever lived. At the end of the War of the Usurper, the Five Houses were prepared to subject civilized space to generations of warfare, even usuing Nuclear weapons. One man could've united the people behind him, defeated them and forged a new Star League, the "Hero" Alexander Kerensky. But he didn't have the stomach for that fight. So he bailed out on the entire human race excepting only those that had the means to join him and wanted to become outcasts. And the result? A society where individual freedoms only reach as far as class boundarys and where virtually any offence can and has been at one time or another justified by the phrase "For the Glory of Clan Insert name of totem animal here." Given all their infighting and poliyical squabbling the Clans seem like as society with everything the Inner Sphere has except for better Tech and less freedom in exchange for better security as long as you aren't a member of the Warrior Caste. Not that the Star League was any bed of roses if you read the history closely. Even during the "Golden Age" there was plenty of conflict if not on the vast scale of the Succession Wars. But those are the worlds we live in. I'll take my flawed Inner Sphere society thanks, especially since I have the right to fight for it no matter where my genes come from. you can keep your Clan "Honor". Honor was around long before the Clans supposedly invented it. The only thing Clan I want is some salvage and maybe a couple of pretty Bondswomen, but only if they both come with no strings attached.

I am sorry to not live up to your bait but *yawn* I have heard this argument in every single board I have gone to that is about Battletech. And I am sure you have heard many variations of the same response. It boils down to this...

1) Aleksandr Kerensky was a personal friend of the Cameron family, he saw their deaths as his personal failure, with this in mind when the successor lord told him to eff off he was shaken enough to say ok

2) He was a man of laws and ideals, he was not about to launch another war on the level of the one he just had. He said that he could not ask his soldiers to go through it again

3) The people of the Star League may have loved him but the united successor lords, or even them all just knit picking him would have winnowed his army to nothing. Not to mention that he would not go against he council as it was a part of the SL and this was what he swore to defend.

4) They abolished the Star League, his oath was to that, if the Leaders wanted to kill their people then that was their problem, he offered many solutions they just wanted to play follow the leader, closed followed by king of the hill.

5) The Clans fight with each other to hone their skills, what you see as infighting will quickly evaporate when a threat is perceived to all clans.

6) I am a Jaguar, your argument is invalid.