373 replies to this topic

[Dolph Hoskins]

Can anyone tell me what information is still relevant for improving how the joystick functions?

I have a T Flight Hotas X that I have recently been amusing myself with in MWO and I can get everything working the way I want except the joystick response. Even with the dead zone set to 0 there is still considerable movement required to get any reticle action and then when it does move tt moves in relatively large movements even with low sensitivity. From what I've read it seems this is just how it is in MWO.

For now I'm just sticking with a throttle, pedal, and mouse combo, but if the joystick would work well that would be good fun.

Thanks

Edited by The Ripper13, 21 November 2015 - 02:31 PM.

[M A S E]

Paul Inouye, on 23 October 2012 - 10:53 AM, said:

NOTE:
Remember, turning a Mech (it's feet) is a DIGITAL (on/off) movement at the moment. This means when you press left or right to turn your Mech, it turns just like you're pressing the A or D key on the keyboard. Slight movements on the joystick react like a key press. We know this is not how sim players want it and it should be small movements = slow turns. The problem is, the fix requires a huge code update on Mech movement. This is something we cannot tackle at the moment but it IS going to be addressed. We just can't give you a confirmed date of delivery.

If you say so, Paul.

[Foust]

M A S E, on 21 November 2015 - 02:04 PM, said:

If you say so, Paul.

When that was posted (3 years ago) that was an accurate statement.

The Ripper13, on 21 November 2015 - 01:42 PM, said:

Can anyone tell me what information is still relevant for improving how the joystick functions?

I have a T Flight Hotas X that I have recently been amusing myself with in MWO and I can get everything working the way I want except the joystick response. Even with the dead zone set to 0 there is still considerable movement required to get any reticle action and then when it does move tt moves in relatively large movements even with low sensitivity. From what I've read it seems this is just how it is in MWO.

For now I'm just sticking with a throttle, pedal, and mouse combo, but if the joystick would work well that would be good fun.

Thanks

What you are experiencing is correct. There is a dead zone enforced regardless of where you set the slider. The joystick controls native to MWO are bad. They added a absolute mode a while back, which was a step in the right direction, but never adjusted to actually be use able.

If you really want to use a joystick, and be effective, you need to use a Thrustmaster TARGET compatible joystick and use mouse emulation. That setup is not without its own issues, however you can aim accurately with a joystick with that arrangement.

[Loc Nar]

Foust, on 23 November 2015 - 07:39 AM, said:

When that was posted (3 years ago) that was an accurate statement.



What you are experiencing is correct. There is a dead zone enforced regardless of where you set the slider. The joystick controls native to MWO are bad. They added a absolute mode a while back, which was a step in the right direction, but never adjusted to actually be use able.

If you really want to use a joystick, and be effective, you need to use a Thrustmaster TARGET compatible joystick and use mouse emulation. That setup is not without its own issues, however you can aim accurately with a joystick with that arrangement.

At one time true, but this is no longer the case. The TARGET monopoly has been toppled ...took me a long time to find an emulator that actually works, but FreePIE works just as well as TARGET does for absolute mouse emulation, which is the only way to have this kind of aim in MWO.

I posted this information to the absolute/zero-order joystick thread some time back. Since then however I have written a slightly better FreePIE script that can be toggled on/off by using the '[' left bracket key.

if starting:
	enabled = False
if enabled:
	mouse.deltaX = filters.delta(joystick[0].x) / 1.4 # *gain, lower numbers = higher gain
	mouse.deltaY = -filters.delta(joystick[0].y) / 2.8 # *gain, lower numbers = higher gain
  
toggle = keyboard.getPressed(Key.LeftBracket)
 
if toggle:
	enabled = not enabled
 
 
#*  X value and Y value define limits of torso travel,
#* different sticks/screen/mech combinations will vary

This needs vJoy running in the background for it to pick up the axes, which I use UJR to handle since it makes it really easy to get a stick up and running and I already have it handy in my toolbar...

With UJR/vJoy picking up the axes though, FreePIE will make *any* joystick work in MWO for absolute mouse emulation/zero-order aiming. Not all are mechanically suitable, but that's another subject altogether...

Happy Thanksgiving, all

[Johny Rocket]

Loc Nar, on 26 November 2015 - 04:18 PM, said:

Not all are mechanically suitable, but that's another subject altogether...

Happy Thanksgiving, all

Do you know if this will work with my cheap Extreme 3D Pro? And how about a write up in the New Player help?

Happy Thanksgiving to you as well.

[Loc Nar]

Tractor Joe, on 26 November 2015 - 07:30 PM, said:

Do you know if this will work with my cheap Extreme 3D Pro? And how about a write up in the New Player help?

Happy Thanksgiving to you as well.

Yes, this will work with a 3D Pro.

Install UJR first (Readme.txt file in the zip has full instructions), then figure out what number UJR sees your stick as and set it to that for both axes you want to use, and there is a slot to list the axis number as well. A small amount if trial and error will reveal the numbers. When you have the right numbers and wiggle the stick you will see horizontal bars moving in UJR.

You need to install FreePIE next, then copy paste the code below into the editor and save the file. Hit f5 or 'start script' to initiate it, and if all is working correct then hitting the left bracket key '[' will toggle the mouse emulation on/off and you will be able to move the cursor in your browser.

if starting:
	    enabled = False
if enabled:
	    mouse.deltaX = filters.delta(joystick[0].x) / 1.4 # *gain, lower numbers = higher gain
	    mouse.deltaY = -filters.delta(joystick[0].y) / 2.8 # *gain, lower numbers = higher gain
 
toggle = keyboard.getPressed(Key.LeftBracket)

if toggle:
	    enabled = not enabled


#*  X value and Y value define limits of torso travel,
#* different sticks/screen/mech combinations will vary

Once you are emulating mouse, MWO doesn't know the difference so there is nothing you need to change in-game. What you might want to play with are the values in the code for x/y. Lower numbers = higher gain.

You need to adjust the settings for the mech you are driving, to prevent from overrunning the edges of mech travel with the stick as this leads to reticule losing center and you will need to hit 'c' to reestablish it.

As to mechanical suitability being another subject, here's a controls writeup I did a while back that gets a little more into it, Controls Demystified(?)

[Johny Rocket]

@Loc Nar Thanks, going to see how it shakes out.

[GreenHell]

Well... I can deffinitely confirm that the Logitech Attack3 is absolutely terrible with this script XD. I'm pretty sure it's just because the Attack3 is a bad stick (which is why I ordered a new T16000M).

[Gremlich Johns]

I think that joysticks suck now because more players are used to mouse and PGI considers them to be their player base and so, caters to them. My joystick does not work the same as it did before June 2015. Too twitchy.

Update, I found this screenshot of my Logitech Extreme 3D Pro JS controller settings (deadzone and sensitivity) settings and switched them back to this. Much nicer to use now.

Edited by Gremlich Johns, 03 January 2016 - 11:29 AM.

[mclang]

So, which is better, FreePIE or TARGET, when using joystick as a mouse?

I am currently using my warthog in my left hand for movement and mouse in my right for aiming, but if things have improved from year ago, I wan't to try two joystick setup... My kill/death ratio cannot go much worse than it is now anyway!

Foust/LocNar:
I remember that you guys have the best joystick setups here and are willing to share your TARGET scripts. Where can I find the most current scripts and what I need to change to make them usable with my warthog?

I remember trying one a year ago when I last played I couldn't get the mouse emulation working. Problem was that the whole joystick range moved mouse only a little in the middle of the screen and I didn't find the right values to change... I have no experience with TARGET scripts

One thing I need in both setups is what I asked laready here:
http://mwomercs.com/...65#entry4968565

Any help would be appreciated!

[Viper Lombardi]

Hello, everyone. I have a question for you, Loc Nar, in response to this:

Loc Nar, on 27 November 2015 - 10:05 AM, said:

Yes, this will work with a 3D Pro.

Install UJR first (Readme.txt file in the zip has full instructions), then figure out what number UJR sees your stick as and set it to that for both axes you want to use, and there is a slot to list the axis number as well. A small amount if trial and error will reveal the numbers. When you have the right numbers and wiggle the stick you will see horizontal bars moving in UJR.

You need to install FreePIE next, then copy paste the code below into the editor and save the file. Hit f5 or 'start script' to initiate it, and if all is working correct then hitting the left bracket key '[' will toggle the mouse emulation on/off and you will be able to move the cursor in your browser.

if starting:
		enabled = False
if enabled:
		mouse.deltaX = filters.delta(joystick[0].x) / 1.4 # *gain, lower numbers = higher gain
		mouse.deltaY = -filters.delta(joystick[0].y) / 2.8 # *gain, lower numbers = higher gain
 
toggle = keyboard.getPressed(Key.LeftBracket)
 
if toggle:
		enabled = not enabled
 
 
#*  X value and Y value define limits of torso travel,
#* different sticks/screen/mech combinations will vary

Once you are emulating mouse, MWO doesn't know the difference so there is nothing you need to change in-game. What you might want to play with are the values in the code for x/y. Lower numbers = higher gain.

You need to adjust the settings for the mech you are driving, to prevent from overrunning the edges of mech travel with the stick as this leads to reticule losing center and you will need to hit 'c' to reestablish it.

As to mechanical suitability being another subject, here's a controls writeup I did a while back that gets a little more into it, Controls Demystified(?)

I'm using a full CH setup, and I'm trying to use the vJoy/UJR/FreePIE method you detailed on my CH Fighterstick. I believe I properly adjusted both "Configure vJoy" and "ujr.exe" as both UJR and the "Test" tab on the device properties of the newly-created vJoy device correctly respond to the movements and button presses of my joystick. However, after copy-pasting your FreePIE script and running it, I don't believe it's working correctly.

If I'm understanding what you're saying correctly, I would be able to tell if the script is working as intended if I'm able to control the mouse cursor on my internet browser using my joystick after pressing left bracket, right? If so, then it doesn't seem to be working correctly for me. I would appreciate help on this matter.

Edited by Viper Lombardi, 04 February 2016 - 05:13 PM.

[FireDog]

Gremlich Johns, on 01 January 2016 - 11:01 PM, said:

I think that joysticks suck now because more players are used to mouse and PGI considers them to be their player base and so, caters to them. My joystick does not work the same as it did before June 2015. Too twitchy.

Update, I found this screenshot of my Logitech Extreme 3D Pro JS controller settings (deadzone and sensitivity) settings and switched them back to this. Much nicer to use now.

You may want to try an asymmetric setup between your X and Y axis. Since most mech need more X axis movement increase your sensitivity on that axis beyond those on the Y axis. I run an M$ Sidewinder Precision II with settings of X: 0.3, Y: 0.16 and DZ: 0.14. It seems to work for me. Good Luck...

[Duke916]

Slion,
Thank you for posting the Vjoy and stick curves sites. I've been playing MWO in DIFFICULT (HOTAS/rudder pedals) mode for 2 years just grinning and bearing the fact I would never be as precise as the mousers. I just cannot bear the idea of playing this game with a mouse and keyboard (doesn't the virtual pilot in the start up sequence move his throttle and joystick???). It just seems to run against Battletech lore and any controllers we have in current real world weapons systems.

With the influx of Steam players and their obvious knack for using mouse and keyboard (and therefore PGI's reticence to change to a 1st order controller game), I'm finally ready to try the emulation programs. Thought I'd start with Vjoy.

Those of you using Vjoy, have you found Vjoy curves which work better in brawling verses sniping? What are your favorites? Do you switch between them in CW matches?

[wikifido]

Hey all, Working on getting my stick setup squared away right now. I have the stick I just need to get them configured for use in MWO. What is currently considered to be the best tools/configurations for getting the most performance out of your sticks (ppJoy, FreePIE, UJR, other?).

Also is there a guide somewhere on installing and configuring these utilities I've searched around the forum and most information seem to be scattered, or is it trial and error.

I am planning on a dual stick setup.

[Cart]

Back in the closed beta (or at least before UI 2.0), there were some options in the user.cfg which really helped playing with Joystick...especially the sensivity-modificators for the different zoom-levels were really helpful...since these options are gone, the aiming with joystick has become really rough...at the moment I'm thinking about getting used to mouse and keyboard...but I don't really like it...

[wikifido]

Based on what I've read directly modifying the .cfg file isn't the only step and just leaving it at that also would leave joystick aiming less accurate because it is not emulating the behavior of a mouse. There are special programs needed to make joystick aiming effective

Last nigh I was messing around wit my Simlog Bulldozer simulator sticks (http://www.simlog.co...s-8buttons.html) as both ways of moving an aiming. They appear to be fine for movement, but wildly inaccurate for aiming, not sure if this is because they are not HOTAS quality or because they were not providing mouse emulation.

Edited by wikifido, 20 July 2016 - 10:22 AM.

[mclang]

My warthog project may be of some help to you.
When I started aiming with joystick I used FreePIE with Loc Nar's script, but then utils like UJR and other handhelding by EvilC made me switch to AutohotKey.

Feel free to check my current script and modify it as needed. Link should be in my signature.

[wikifido]

Thanks mclang. I have seen your post in the past, I was wondering how current the information was. I am most familiar with Autohotkey so maybe UJR (and Joystick to mouse?) is the way to go for me.

The other thing I was considering was looking into the X65F because it's a pressure based stick for aiming so as to reduce deadzone issues when aiming. I still haven't decided on an aiming stick for my setup yet.

[mclang]

I don't know how that pressure based system of X65F work, so I can't comment on that, but for good aiming you need a stick that has better than 8bit resolution. Otherwise the small movements of the stick do not translate well enough to cursor movements.

[nimrodusmaximus]

sorry to be dense, but i can't find the user.cfg file...? I see a system.cfg file - is that the new file to use...?