255 replies to this topic

[Sandpit]

Tickdoff Tank, on 30 October 2012 - 04:17 PM, said:

Don't blame everything on premades. You will run out of people to blame for your loss when the MM is fixed.

This ^

[Insidious Johnson]

I've played trial mechs too. I like the CN9-AL. It runs entirely too hot though. There is a reason for the mechlabs: stock variants are not the end all and be all of mechwarrior. Some, quite frankly, suck. It places a performance cap on players OLD and NEW. I think we need to change up the trial mech concept to "rent to own". After 10-15 matches WON, they assume the title of it and can start modding it. Frustration gets to a point where they aren't learning a damn thing, they just increase the frequency at which they pound their heads on the wall. Get over it PGI, you aren't getting into a whole lot more wallets by cheesing off their owners. Oh, and your Wang, typically, under performs. Bring back the AH. I am impressed with a few of our resident brown nosers. They are in so deep, some have actually pulled out some gold nuggets.

[Ghosth]

A I may be a founder but I don't trash talk or recruit.

B We often have groups with trial mechs this afternoon we had at least 2 guys running trials.

C We had one match today where we got owned, I think we only killed 3 of them, they got 7 of us.
Turns out no it wasn't a premade, just a bunch of guys who were doing good teamwork.

D I think the matchmaker needs some work, but right now I think a lot of things need some work.

E If your tired of losing try grouping up, get on vent, mumble, C3 or TS3 server and hook up.
What do you have to lose, other than losing itself?

[lsp]

I'm still having fun, I don't mind the challenge. I just wish my teams would have more common sense.
<------ pugger

Edited by lsp, 30 October 2012 - 05:38 PM.

[CocoaJin]

Solo queues will totally evaporate the "pre-made" myth for losing...it'll be replaced by P2W excuses as players will assume they got beat by customized mechs, but I tend to think they'll find uber builds easier to stomach since they'll be customizing their own mech soon enough.

Though I dont have an issue with pre-mades, or even having my PuG steam-rolled by one on occassion, I do feel that solo queues would be a good thing for the community...especially for its growth. I think the typical lop-sided victories the combat model promotes, only works to inflame the "myth" of being steam rolled by a pre-made...true or not.

Frankly, solo queues and the combination of a reduced armor buff and reduce rate of fire might work to decrease the lop sided victories...all good things for keeping entitled and fault transfering gamers(the vast majority of us gamers Im sure) from getting a bad taste in thier mouth and leaving our community anemic and twittling its thumbs.

[Yokaiko]

CocoaJin, on 30 October 2012 - 05:42 PM, said:

Solo queues will totally evaporate the "pre-made" myth for losing...it'll be replaced by P2W excuses as players will assume they got beat by customized mechs, but I tend to think they'll find uber builds easier to stomach since they'll be customizing their own mech soon enough.

Though I dont have an issue with pre-mades, or even having my PuG steam-rolled by one on occassion, I do feel that solo queues would be a good thing for the community...especially for its growth. I think the typical lop-sided victories the combat model promotes, only works to inflame the "myth" of being steam rolled by a pre-made...true or not.

Frankly, solo queues and the combination of a reduced armor buff and reduce rate of fire might work to decrease the lop sided victories...all good things for keeping entitled and fault transfering gamers(the vast majority of us gamers Im sure) from getting a bad taste in thier mouth and leaving our community anemic and twittling its thumbs.

Won't work its rare that you can turn a battle after being three mechs down. I had ONE game where it was 6-3 and we turned it. But the remaining two we K2s and they had three VERY busted up Atlases and a couple mediums.

I'm in the backfire camp.

Remove the premade excuse and people all of a sudden have to deal with the fact that they aren't the best at the game.

[Rahnu]

CobraFive, on 30 October 2012 - 04:02 PM, said:

Then this game is doomed to failure, just like everyone is saying.

There are plenty of heavily team-based games- in fact, games much more heavily team dependent then this one- that are also fun for pugs to play. Until MWO is one of those games, and in no way is it even close yet, its never going to be a competitive product.

QFT.

Like it or not, the type of people who want to just pick up and play are exactly the type of people PG needs to attract to achieve real success. If only the most hardcore of the hardcore are able to play with any level of enjoyment you end up with a stagnant community, one where all the new players are instantly pushed away the moment they so much as investigate the game, which would obviously kill revenue in very short order.

You don't think League of Legends got where it is by fostering an elitist, exclusionary attitude, do you?

[Mystere]

Yokaiko, on 30 October 2012 - 05:48 PM, said:

Remove the premade excuse and people all of a sudden have to deal with the fact that they aren't the best at the game.

Nope. They'll just blame something else.

[CobraFive]

Zyrusticae, on 30 October 2012 - 05:50 PM, said:

Like it or not, the type of people who want to just pick up and play are exactly the type of people PG needs to attract to achieve real success.

I'd like to repeat and expand upon that for a second. It highlights a simple but extremely damaging fallacy that has been killing this community.

The person who want to "just pick up and play" is the very same person that will be in premades and commanding teams and so on a few months from now.

This community has such a low opinion of new players, or players who don't immediately jump into TS3 as the first thing they do, that it is simply toxic to the entire game, and not just the community.

Very, very, very few players- even intelligent, competitive players!- start a competitive game by jumping into premades, or even trying to join the community before playing the game. No, you test the waters first, see if the game is worth even getting into at all (Another issue I won't go into now), and THEN... no, not yet. Then you learn the game on your own. You'll be a burden to the team otherwise. In WOT, you don't join tank companies if you're just getting up to tier 5. In starcraft, you don't jump on the 1v1 ranked queue if you don't even know your own team's units yet. And in MWO's case, you don't simply jump into TS3 and join premades when you don't understand the game, its progression, or even have your own mech yet! It doesn't matter what you did, what your clan did, what that one guy you met did. That's not the way it works, or should work, or has ever worked for the greater majority of gamers.

So instead, when new players are testing that water, they are having a terrible time for it. They come here with legitimate complaints- maybe even some anger- and we light them on fire and shoot them down. In the game's current state, a new palyer has a lot of legitimate reasons to be angry. The best the to do is to tell them how and when its going to be fixed, or to just not say anything.

The only thing that is happening now is players getting angry, leaving, and playing a real team based game, of which there is no shortage.

PS: this has nothing to do with Pug vs Premade.

Edited by CobraFive, 30 October 2012 - 06:04 PM.

[Tier up]

ollo, on 30 October 2012 - 03:58 PM, said:

How is that gonna fix the crappy trial mechs? Just curious...

And BTW, everyone please shut up about that "find a group, learn to play, blablabla"-BS, thank you.

Just because you think its an invalid argument doesn't make it so.

[Ransack]

KrazedOmega, on 30 October 2012 - 03:16 PM, said:

Pug stomping was happening long before open beta. The new players have only made it worse.

PuG stomping was happening before there were premades.

[EDMW CSN]

I have won games without pre-mades. Just saying.
For example, some guy said "hey let's defend and dig in" and the enemy threw themselves at us.
It end up 8:3

That definitely wasn't pre-made.

[Accident]

Well said Cobra.

-Accident

[HAPPY DFA]

Before open beta, we begged and begged for a lobby and were ignored. Then PGI announced open beta, and the community basically had a fit, so they presented us with the current algorithm based "plan" literally two weeks ago. And the plan completely fails to something as simple as a basic lobby where you can group up,

Most of us pre-mades who want a challenge have to go thru extremely arcane methods of weight class matching and drop syncing to try fight other premade groups. The developers seem to be actively fighting any attempts of player organized activity, which is frustrating to say the least, and makes me wonder if they have any idea what it takes to run a successful mmo. Actively stifling player involvement is no way to retain players.

[Greyfyl]

Ravendreams, on 30 October 2012 - 02:53 PM, said:

Where is the proof they were all premade groups as well. I've seen very few premade groups myself.

Then you are either blind or fooling yourself. They have been out in droves since the reset.

[Imagine Dragons]

Ransack, on 30 October 2012 - 06:21 PM, said:

PuG stomping was happening before there were premades.

I really don't see PUGs stomping PUGs an issue considering it is not predetermined nor an obvious outcome...

Edited by XenomorphZZ, 30 October 2012 - 06:35 PM.

[Monsoon]

Mack1, on 30 October 2012 - 02:46 PM, said:

I just think the Devs should be kicked up the arse as we warned them about this over 3 months ago, no excuses, it's harming the game, fix it or lose money. Oh and 4 man lances won't fix it, we need Solo queues.

Right, the 'solution' is to take a team based game and make it all about lone wolves, right, because that would kill the game fast enough.

No, the solution is when they finally integrate C3 and hopefully create VOIP for every team. Communication is a real problem, not some supposed Premade issue. A coordinated PUG is as effective as a pre-made against a PUG group full of Leeroy Jenkins wannabees.

[Lin Shai]

Greyfyl, on 30 October 2012 - 06:29 PM, said:

Then you are either blind or fooling yourself. They have been out in droves since the reset.

Apparently those of us who PUG and don't get slaughtered every match by the pre-made boogyman must be the luckiest and best players on the planet then

Maybe read the thread where the adults are talking before parroting the same old tired garbage?

[Stonefalcon]

A lobby is still not going to fix anything. Premades are just that, PREMADE. They are groups of players who have been playing together for a long time, a pug group, even formed in lobby has Zero chance of defeating a well organized Premade group. All a lobby will do is allow people to blame some other aspect of the game rather than giving themselves a good hard look in the mirror and realizing they are the reason they are losing.

I took my mech into a few pug games to see what the fuss was all about and frankly I couldn't find an issue other than new players still learning the ropes or bot players. I was able to assist my team, answer questions all around and took the fight to the enemy numerous times across multiple matches. Did my team win the matches? About half which seems about right, we came across one premade group that stomped everyone till they hit my Brick wall Atlas, sure I died and we lost but they had to fight for it, end result was about 8-5.

Ultimately my game experience leads me to this conclusion. "Today's generation of gamers who have been spoon-fed everything given to them on a silver platter playing games such as COD, Halo or WoW instantly attribute failure to an aspect of the game they play rather than sitting back and looking at how they play it". This thought process forces game developers hands who view the created threads of "This game sucks cause I'm bad at it" and they feel they must act and make radical changes to preserve their player base all the while they know this is just the minority talking there isn't really anything they can do.

Do you complain about something that you feel is not broken? I sure don't, the only time a complaint is made is when you feel something is wrong with the product, not when you think the product is perfectly fine. I do feel the developers understand this but like what has been said countless times, players equal profit. The more players playing the more profit can be made even if it sacrifices the silent majority.

[Damion Wolf]

A good solution would be to smack the **** out of those whiners who don't want to learn how to play.

A game like this isn't for everybody. We're still in Beta. There are going to be problems. There are going to be trails and errors. That's what Beta is for.

Stop crying, be construtive or go back to playing... I don't know, what's hip now days? Modern Warfare? Yeah, go back to playing that.