255 replies to this topic

[Dorado]

I think the whole idea of a "pre-made" pug stomping has been blown WAY out of proportion.

FACTS

• Yes, there are many of us from closed beta that have already taken our beatings and learned what mechs we play best in and what roles we best fill on a team. All of us were newbs once and got our metal cans handed to us by more experienced pilots.
  
• Yes, many of us accept the fact that the best way to be most effective is through teamwork and COMMUNICATION on the field of battle. These two things alone are more effective in mech battles than anything you can come up with in mech lab to lonewolf in.

MISCONCEPTIONS

• Just because there is a publicly available Teamspeak server to serve as a nexus for voice communication till Piranha gets around to better integrating C3 in-game voice doesn't mean those of us that DO use it are sitting in a voice channel plotting your demise. 99% of us are just random Pick Up Groups (read PUGs) that realize clicking a single dot on a tactical map and typing short bursts of text in team text chat are insufficient for efficient organized warfare.
  
• The -only- difference between those of us who are taking advantage of the gracious hosts of the Teamspeak servers are that we show up on the voice server first, hop into the LFG channel and get into a group BEFORE we drop. Beyond that, we are normally not guilds or merc corps out to roflstomp PUGs... cause we are a PUG that is persistently grouped from match to match rotating in new pilots that show up for LFG and replace pilots that are done for the night.

Now this is for all you new people... quit yer *******', take your licks, and learn the ropes like all the rest of us had to do... and FFS either get with the program and use voice comms of some type, STHU, or keep lone wolf dropping and hope you drop with some veteran pilots that will cover your tin can when you go off and do something you shouldn't have done.

For all you veterans, you know the drill. If all your newly invited friends to open beta get stomped in a disorganized limited communication team and they give up on MWO on their first day, then this probably wasn't the game for them in the first place.

I encourage every pilot to use some sort of voice comms until the Piranhas get their rears in gear and tightly integrate both lance and company voice comms with C3. With all the free options available you should be able to find something that works for you.

Good luck and good hunting. See you on the field.

[Darkfire66]

I hope that people will take the criticisms about finding a group as less of a slam and realize that the people you play with hopefully be cool people. MWO is as much about signing on to see my friends in teamspeak as it is melting people with lasers.

It's great to be able to ask questions about builds, run ideas off a sounding board, and work together with some bros. It's great getting competitive with your new friends, the trash talking you do to each other over who stole a kill or had a nice shot.

The premade drops we did with our trial mechs, troll mechs, all flamers, all jenners, all AC/2, etc...the laughs and fun are the game to me. I'm in a serious group that runs a few hours a night. We routinely roll over premade groups, and we don't have fun if the other team sucks. If a team gets stomped, I'll offer the last man standing a chance to 1 on 1 me, and I won't fire until he does, just to let them have fun. Then my group will cap if he wins so he won't have a huge repair bill. (He hasn't won yet haha)

I'm a single dad who works, so I get people not wanting to commit to a clan, but it isn't some cult or huge commitment. You can find people that are just like you who will give you a hand and help you have fun. That's the whole point of MechWarrior Online.

I really hope people will enjoy this game. If you find it in your wallet to spring for 20 dollars of mc you can buy a mech and start actually enjoying it more. I paid 60 and honestly feel I've gotten my money's worth.

TLDR: I'd welcome anyone to message me if they need help. I want you to be good pilots. I want challenge and games won by the last mechs with three limbs blown off bashing each other. Don't give up on MWO = )

[Vorex]

its seems to me most founders are just blind. they have their shiny mechs and didn't see the obvious....

it's not lobby or premades that make new players unhappy. it's the trial mech getting matched vs founders atlases...

if i load in a game, look around and see 4 trial assaults and 2 minutes later lance of atlases came in and killed every poor newbie, that's not the game that attracts new players....

4 ppl groups are not gonna fix it. only proper matchmaking will. if it's not too late.

[Tekerton]

CobraFive, on 30 October 2012 - 04:02 PM, said:

Then this game is doomed to failure, just like everyone is saying.

There are plenty of heavily team-based games- in fact, games much more heavily team dependent then this one- that are also fun for pugs to play. Until MWO is one of those games, and in no way is it even close yet, its never going to be a competitive product.

This is not a software problem, the issue does not lie therein. What you are describing is a human being problem. Software can't fix the players who are unwilling to play a team based game or those who simply aren't willing to put the time in to get better.

All too often people associate winning with having fun. While winning is certainly fun, losing does not equate to not having fun. Some of the best laughs I've had in this game have come from losing dreadfully. If any person wants to rage quit because they lose, or just gets pissy because they lose, that's called being a bad sport. Again, software doesn't fix that.

I have joined pugs without being in team speak and stomp the crap out of TS teams. Granted, it's not often that that happens, But it is not often that a pug will work together based on the team following that one person willing to stick their neck out there and call some orders out. Another example I do experience At least once or twice a day is that team that does not have one person calling the shots but has played the game well enough to know how to work with the other people in the team based upon the team make up, the known battle lines and formations.

Let's face it... The client has four maps for us to test. Anyone who has played this client for more than just a few hours knows these maps like the back of their hand. Those people have zero excuses for losing the match if they are the one who is running out by themselves and getting waxed by the entire other team. More often than not the ones that cry the loudest are those who were out by themselves getting destroyed. If you were not out by yourself, were with the other people on your pug, and you still got destroyed... Hang out for a few minutes. I new match will start, a new beginning for all. Yay.

If I had a single penny for every time I heard a doomsayer cry their opinion that this game and that game will fail based upon some other opinion, I could have developed my own online BattleTech game a long time ago. Your opinion, and all those like it, are based on foundations of nothing. Conversely, there are many titles that stand to this day which received all the same doomsaying.

Like everyone else, I started off after this last wipe with nothing. I purchased my shiny new Raven today and had plenty of money left over to equip it to my liking. I then went on to earn a couple more million with that Mech. I did this by winning some and losing some. As I was testing out this new build, I chose to pug instead of jumping into TS. I had fun most of the time. . Others around me had fun. Some people did not. The times that were not so fun were based upon my crappy Mech design. When I had it sorted out I joined TS. I died within the first two minutes of that first match. My bad, entirely.

What's my point? It's the human condition, not the software.

Edited by Tekerton, 30 October 2012 - 07:46 PM.

[Lin Shai]

Vorex, on 30 October 2012 - 07:35 PM, said:

its seems to me most founders are just blind. they have their shiny mechs and didn't see the obvious....

it's not lobby or premades that make new players unhappy. it's the trial mech getting matched vs founders atlases...

No, that's pretty much exactly what everyone in this thread has been saying.

[Dorado]

Monsoon, on 30 October 2012 - 06:35 PM, said:

No, the solution is when they finally integrate C3 and hopefully create VOIP for every team. Communication is a real problem, not some supposed Premade issue. A coordinated PUG is as effective as a pre-made against a PUG group full of Leeroy Jenkins wannabees.

^^ This. ^^

[Dorado]

Vorex, on 30 October 2012 - 07:35 PM, said:

its seems to me most founders are just blind. they have their shiny mechs and didn't see the obvious....

it's not lobby or premades that make new players unhappy. it's the trial mech getting matched vs founders atlases...

if i load in a game, look around and see 4 trial assaults and 2 minutes later lance of atlases came in and raped every poor newbie, that's not the game that attracts new players....

4 ppl groups are not gonna fix it. only proper matchmaking will. if it's not too late.

You are totally arguing up the wrong tree mate. I am a founder and I am not blind. The paint job on my mech means exactly **** in a mech fight.

The only problem with trial mechs versus a customized mech tailored to the playstyle of the pilot is that they are setup with tabletop Battletech in mind. That being not enough ammo and too much heat (because RoF and heat dissipation do not match tabletop). With basic team tactics, trigger discipline, and being mindful of both my ammo count and heat level, I will fight you just as hard and just as good in a trial mech as one I built. It may take my team a bit longer to core you because of heat or ammo but it can be done.

The upside of earning the c-bills for your first mech by having to learn the ropes in a trial mech is that you pay zero repair costs and don't have to buy your own ammo to reload. How much more of a free ride do you need while learning the ropes?

[Prophet of Entropy]

ive been in "premades" where we lost to "pugs" mostly cause haveing 2-4 bad players will make you lose unless theres an equal number of bad players on both sides.

communication doesnt make people have good setups they can use or improve thier aim. it helps people work together but its not the a sure fire way to win.

ive played with pugs in the last couple days when i die and spectate, THEY ARE AWFUL SHOTS! not every new player is im sure but the 6 ive observed were and their set ups we not what id call suited to thier inability to aim.

the best avice a new player can get to improve aim imo is: reduce your mouse sensitivity.

[Mystere]

Stonefalcon, on 30 October 2012 - 06:50 PM, said:

"Today's generation expects everything to be given to them on a silver platter ...

Fixed that for you.

[Mystere]

Vorex, on 30 October 2012 - 07:35 PM, said:

it's not lobby or premades that make new players unhappy ...

Did you even read the OP's first sentence?

[Vorex]

Dorado, on 30 October 2012 - 08:03 PM, said:

You are totally arguing up the wrong tree mate. I am a founder and I am not blind. The paint job on my mech means exactly **** in a mech fight.

The only problem with trial mechs versus a customized mech tailored to the playstyle of the pilot is that they are setup with tabletop Battletech in mind. That being not enough ammo and too much heat (because RoF and heat dissipation do not match tabletop). With basic team tactics, trigger discipline, and being mindful of both my ammo count and heat level, I will fight you just as hard and just as good in a trial mech as one I built. It may take my team a bit longer to core you because of heat or ammo but it can be done.

The upside of earning the c-bills for your first mech by having to learn the ropes in a trial mech is that you pay zero repair costs and don't have to buy your own ammo to reload. How much more of a free ride do you need while learning the ropes?

nobody cares how your atlas is painted, i care cause founders itself stomping a future of this game by demolishing newbies in clearly inferior mechs, which will hurt them in the long run.

and i'm not talking about myself, i played in closed beta, i made 5 mln cbills in one evening of rambo grinding back to my atlas. in a few day's i'll get matched vs trial assault mechs in a custom atlas.

[Vorex]

Mystere, on 30 October 2012 - 08:26 PM, said:

Did you even read the OP's first sentence?

sure. you? it's about premades and solo queues. not a word about 8 founders being matched vs 8 trial mechs.

[Rifter]

I agree, and ive lost friends too who tried this game yesterday when they were able after it launched and sent me some nasty e-mails and texts asking me WTF i see in this POS unfun rolfstomp of a game with no content. And i had no answers they wanted to hear.

Unfortunatly its us the playerbase who has to pay for PGI's complete lack of management, this game never should have launched without a functioning MM. And now we are lossing players because of it, and the game might be alot shorter lived than it could have been.

[Cons3quence]

Here is the big point everyone missed:

Why play a game that isn't FUN?

The game isn't fun, it lasts 2 minutes if you are lucky and the engine sucks. Too many bugs ect. The gameplay is the worst I've ever seen.

[Killeralpha]

I am almost 50 yrs old and I dont wanna hear shouts of kids over VOIP even if they implement that . That doesnt means that I am not enjoying a team game but its incredible how ******** these game designers are !
WTFS is sooo hard to put in game AT LEAST some fast commands like "Attack" or Defend" or "Help" , Follow, etc like in all games in the last 15 years or so !?
WTFS is soo hard to just do what WoT is doing with commands and especially matchmaking ?
Do what LoL is doing abt ranked ppl who wanna play competitive too, dont force all ppl to stay in guilds/clans/whatever to be able to play a game.
That means failure to keep enough ppl to sustain a game. If you could fool enough of them to buy a "finished " product , like Diablo 3 for instance its ok but if you make a beta and all ppl see its crap you are doomed

[JollyRoger4u]

if the premades really are a myth, why not quickly add a little marker in front of grouped peoples names? then we can actually tell if its a 8man premade or puggy McPug out for his morning whopping.

I'm no experienced programmer, but can it really be that hard to do as a temporary solution? if pugs can see that they get killed by other pugs, the entire "premade" craze will go away....

Unless its true ofc, who knows?

[Poopy Joe]

Wish the devs would respond with issues with trial mechs and what not.

Real reasons why people are leaving the game.

[cmopatrick]

i brought this up on the other side of ob, but it still seems germane: allow the group to split into the arcade minded and those of us who want to be more serious. ok, if "arcade" is a loaded term to some of you, perhaps the more charitable among us might call it a "training" level.

maybe we don't even need to change the matchmaker... instead, give players a selection in their options to drop only in all solo pug.

further, MWO could add an arcade selection that would give them access to customizeable mechs, have no repair bills, and have nerfed heat... of course, they would not be allowed to drop with main community members in any such mechs, and they would not earn experience points (mech or gxp) or cbills that would apply in the main community (only to their arcade mode),

while it might seem at first glance that they would be (in essence) second class citizens in MWO, instead it would allow them to play in a less hostile environment while they learn to pilot their mechs. some folks will not want to stay at that level, we can help them understand that with their improving skills they can switch to the "real" MWO where there is a grind and a cost to progress. yes, some will stay at the learning level: no problem, the no premade rule would keep better ones from doing their own version of pug stomping.

think of it like the 3rdp/nh/ua that a LOT of folks in mw4 played for a long time (don't ask me why they did it, but they did). to the extent that they were supporting the franchise, the maps, the servers... well, i would submit that they helped keep mw4 alive for a lot longer than it might have done otherwise.

just my $0.02.

Edited by cmopatrick, 30 October 2012 - 09:29 PM.

[Endarius]

Valder, on 30 October 2012 - 02:51 PM, said:

Maybe all these friends you introduced to the game should.... get in teamspeak together and use team tactics?

Werd.

[TheUnderking]

MorbidGamer, on 30 October 2012 - 03:03 PM, said:

I don't blame him since premades are everywhere LRM stomping pugs with their leet camping skills.

Freaking right my man. LRMs are ridiculous and sure they promote teamplay, but no they are not cool or fun.

Full disclosure : I run tag for my LRMing friends. It's lame but holy is it good.