593 replies to this topic

[Rejarial Galatan]

Dream Seaker, I have seen battle on BF3 on XBox 360 take MORE than an hour on maps where the match USUALLY ends in 5-7 MINUTES. And the best turtle is the mech thats outta ammo, energy weapons broken, but can run and hide all day long under that cliff away from the rest of us. That IS if win conditions is obliterate the other side.

[Dream Seaker]

Rejarial Galatan, on 23 April 2012 - 07:56 PM, said:

Dream Seaker, I have seen battle on BF3 on XBox 360 take MORE than an hour on maps where the match USUALLY ends in 5-7 MINUTES. And the best turtle is the mech thats outta ammo, energy weapons broken, but can run and hide all day long under that cliff away from the rest of us. That IS if win conditions is obliterate the other side.

i see. well i hope, whatever the dev's do they do it well and make the game fun...even for turtle matches

[Rejarial Galatan]

whats more fun then strapping into the mech of your choice and slugging it out in a great game? NO NO NO not MW4, never that game... a good skills refresher course single player, even with all its flaws, but just no.

[Dream Seaker]

not too too much

[NeoDac]

Couple of Observations. yes mobile field bases may not exist yet but ammo resupply trucks do. 2 the mech in game that is considered a long term stayer on the battlefield (ammo wise) is listed as having enough ammo for 8 minutes of battle so yay 20 minute games. 3 so far there is only one mech that (not counting variants) is full energy armament capable the Awesome. seen reference to the swayback variant of the hunchback but haven't heard it confirmed. 4 i have a giant death bot that is dependent on ammo. why the heck would i make it hard to reload in the field?
reloading areas are definitely on my list based on past mechwarrior games keeping in mind that i'm generaly a fan of energy boats for games like this because ammo always seems to run out quickly in real time versus how long it lasts in the board game

Edit: and before people shout me down with "just change your weapons" remember folks this is using the Hardpoint system ALA mechwarrior 4 you can change the exact weapon in a slot but not the type ammo based chasis cannot be turned into an energy boat

Edited by NeoDac, 23 April 2012 - 09:12 PM.

[Rejarial Galatan]

Just give me an omni mech and Ill strap energy weapons onto it XD

[Solarflux]

Out = out. Should had packed more ammo before the battle if you didn't want to risk running out.

[Rejarial Galatan]

Solarflux, on 23 April 2012 - 09:21 PM, said:

Out = out. Should had packed more ammo before the battle if you didn't want to risk running out.

flawed logic man. There are mechs that cannot pack in ALOT of ammo tonnage wise. What of them? Look, it boils down to this, no way to reload or repair removes a bit of immersion and for some, immersion is where its at.

oh also: what if you take a critical hit to the location you have say 10 tons of ammo stored because you wanted to make sure you didnt run out? NOW you have an issue, you just lost a major portion of the machine. See? reloading. Lets make it happen!

[Haakon Valravn]

In today's military, every weapon is provided with plentiful ammunition, sufficient for all but the most savage of firefights and longest of battles. Indeed, an aphorism for such a struggle has been to call them 'situations where the fuel lasted longer than the ammunition'. And there is always more ammunition waiting to be loaded up at a nearby forward operating base or dropped in a designated LZ (or DZ, as the case may be).

Strategically, all energy weapons need are spares and spare parts. So long as they don't break, they keep working, while munitions-based weapons will need (duh) ammunition, in addition to spare parts, spares, lubrication, &c. Since the system is based off of those of a unit or individual purchasing items that they require, it means that the need to keep a stockpile of ammunition on hand, and to regularly replenish it, which will cut into operating expenditures (although ammunition costs might be pro-rated by a client as part of their contract, it will still mean spent money). In terms of logistics, ammunition is huge, but so are rations, spare parts, auxillary personnel, support (dropships, arty, infantry, aircraft, AFVs, &c.).

Given that the game has strategic depth, I see little reason to burden the players, tactically, with munitions issues, except when they have failed to maintain their logistics chain on the supply side (either by running out of money/failing to maintain an adequete supply or by losing their support to enemy action) or in situations where 'the fuel outlasts the ammunition'. In the former instance, resupply is practically a nonissue, at least until the player is able to reestablish their logistics. In the latter, resupply should be an option, provided that the player is able to withdraw to a resupply point (whether this is practical within the tactical scope of the game is another issue, but if you start with full magazines and deplete them, you should be able to replenish them).

[Magnificent Bastard]

What's with all the ammo/heat threads? If you're the kind of person that plays MechWarrior games with No Heat and Unlimited Ammo you need to get the **** off my internets. Cheating in singleplayer games can be fun from time to time (Grand Theft Auto AMIRITE?) but limited ammo and heat management is part of what makes MechWarrior games challenging and therefor fun. I get bored very quickly when ammo and heat are turned off.

[Motionless]

Magnificent *******, on 23 April 2012 - 10:06 PM, said:

What's with all the ammo/heat threads? If you're the kind of person that plays MechWarrior games with No Heat and Unlimited Ammo you need to get the **** off my internets. Cheating in singleplayer games can be fun from time to time (Grand Theft Auto AMIRITE?) but limited ammo and heat management is part of what makes MechWarrior games challenging and therefor fun. I get bored very quickly when ammo and heat are turned off.

C'mon, all the cool kids are doing it.

Get it? They're cool because heat mechanics are turned off.

[neodym]

Magnificent *******, on 23 April 2012 - 10:06 PM, said:

What's with all the ammo/heat threads? If you're the kind of person that plays MechWarrior games with No Heat and Unlimited Ammo you need to get the **** off my internets. Cheating in singleplayer games can be fun from time to time (Grand Theft Auto AMIRITE?) but limited ammo and heat management is part of what makes MechWarrior games challenging and therefor fun. I get bored very quickly when ammo and heat are turned off.

thats pretty cool of topic story,just to let you know,ammo refit doesnt have anything to do with unlimited ammo and no heat options,you will still run out of ammo fast and die becose of that or get graped while shutdown from heat....

[Atayu]

I belive that when you use up your ammo your out, no refill station. The point of weapons that take ammo in mechwarrior is that they usally cause much less heat, or have a higher DPS rate. The trade off for this is having to pay for upkeep on ammo and if you miss to much in a fight you will run out of ammo and be helpless. But if you are in a ammo using mech virse a energy only mech in a head to head fight You will cause much more damage in the same amount of time. Both have advantages and disadvantages, there are also advantages and disadvantages to mixing both as you need room for heatsinks for the ennergy weapons and room for ammo for none energy weapons.

[wwiiogre]

If you want I can go back and break them all up. Did the last two just now, plus edited typos and misused words, etc.

Generally write those when I am tired and part of that is forgetting to break it up. Wrote professionally for a long time, technical stuff etc, so would write one solid piece then come back and fix it.

chris

[Steel Talon]

Atayu, on 24 April 2012 - 10:29 AM, said:

I belive that when you use up your ammo your out, no refill station. The point of weapons that take ammo in mechwarrior is that they usally cause much less heat, or have a higher DPS rate. The trade off for this is having to pay for upkeep on ammo and if you miss to much in a fight you will run out of ammo and be helpless. But if you are in a ammo using mech virse a energy only mech in a head to head fight You will cause much more damage in the same amount of time. Both have advantages and disadvantages, there are also advantages and disadvantages to mixing both as you need room for heatsinks for the ennergy weapons and room for ammo for none energy weapons.

The point is ressuply at your LZ, when u run out off ammo surrounded by jenners you are out ... u are dead
Empty mech is supposed to return to LZ & either ressuply or call for pick-up, depending on gamemode.

[Dmitri Ravenoff]

Some Mechs were designed specifically with battlefield reloading in mind. The Enforcer, with it's 10 round ammunition "Clip" that ejected from it's back could readily be reloaded by a special truck in the field (don't get me started on the stones it must have taken to be the drivers of said truck)

I'm for reloading at LZ's (or at your dropship, etc) Some Mechs were just not designed for prolonged engagements. (Missile boats, and carriers of AC-20's for example) and require field reloading.

[Rejarial Galatan]

Ok, I will say this again, because there is an elephant in the room and EVERYONE seems to be soo focused on just the ammo portion of the issue, the cobra on this elephant is about to slide down the trunk and bite you all! One component you guys are either just ignoring or have NOT noticed is: WE WILL LOSE ARMOR IN COMBAT. I do not care if you think you are god in a mech you WILL lose armor. There will come a point in every match when atleast 1 of the 12 mechs on a given side will be forced to retreat IF the pilot is smart enough to obey his readouts at this point because his mech is in danger of losing every last point of armor on the machine. At this point a pilot MUST find either A the ejection handle because death is looming OR find a FOB or MFB to get armor bolted back on so they can rejoin the fight. The end result is, if you want FULL immersion FOBs or MFBs are going to be needed unless the DEVs force an unnaturally short time clock on the matches which will kill the enjoyment because mech battles were NOT fast when they began, only after first contact, and then it could, in novels atleast take hours to MAKE said first contact. Get over it, some sort of repair/reload really DOES need to be implemented. This is in no way SAYING YOU MUST USE IT, but like a certain bit of latex, tis better to HAVE it and NOT need it than to NEED it and NOT have it ya know?

Edited by Rejarial Galatan, 24 April 2012 - 06:25 PM.

[Ravn]

You just said full immersion and bolt on armor within the same paragraph. I think it will take longer than a couple minutes to repair a war torn mech's armor. MFB from MW3 should have no place within a realistic environment. Re-arming weapons... possible, but not if you hot dropped onto a planet. Even if so, that ammo refit should be destructible and costly if destoyed. I would rather not see it in game.

[Mad Pig]

My vote.... barring some type of mobile field base or some type of ammo drop, once you're out you're out.

[Rejarial Galatan]

Ravn, on 24 April 2012 - 06:55 PM, said:

You just said full immersion and bolt on armor within the same paragraph. I think it will take longer than a couple minutes to repair a war torn mech's armor. MFB from MW3 should have no place within a realistic environment. Re-arming weapons... possible, but not if you hot dropped onto a planet. Even if so, that ammo refit should be destructible and costly if destoyed. I would rather not see it in game.

I dont mind spending 10 minutes in a MFB to get even YELLOW level armor welded in place. But, who says repairs in terms of GAME PLAY gotta take super long? while MW3 had its issues as did MW4, it could be made to take just a minute or two to keep game flow.

also, who cares if we are hot dropped, who says we are the first there? a supply chain could be waiting in country for us