593 replies to this topic

[Ravn]

[Rejarial Galatan]

Volthorne, to break your logic of: keep it out of a simulator, I once again counter with: Aces High and Aces High 2. Combat Flight SIMULATORS that had, yes, HAD/HAVE <IF AH2 is STILL going, dunno honestly> a way to reload the ammo boxes on fighters and bombers and even ground vehicles.

Your next bit of logic: IF you didnt bring enough bullets, thats YOUR problem. Uh, reloading/arming is the same EFFING THING AS HAVING SPARE CLIPS, but where in gods name on a mech will you keep these extra clips that WONT get you killed?

You wanna blow up cuz you cant flush coolant, fine, but for sake of all thats holy, give those who have NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER SEEN, PLAYED OR TOUCHED THE FRANCHISE the effing option.

[Ravn]

Rejarial Galatan, on 01 May 2012 - 08:21 PM, said:

Volthorne, to break your logic of: keep it out of a simulator, I once again counter with: Aces High and Aces High 2. Combat Flight SIMULATORS that had, yes, HAD/HAVE <IF AH2 is STILL going, dunno honestly> a way to reload the ammo boxes on fighters and bombers and even ground vehicles.

Your next bit of logic: IF you didnt bring enough bullets, thats YOUR problem. Uh, reloading/arming is the same EFFING THING AS HAVING SPARE CLIPS, but where in gods name on a mech will you keep these extra clips that WONT get you killed?

You wanna blow up cuz you cant flush coolant, fine, but for sake of all thats holy, give those who have NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER SEEN, PLAYED OR TOUCHED THE FRANCHISE the effing option.

But it was only introduced as of MW3. Also, if you could reload on the fly in Flying Aces, then flying aces is not a sim. Falcon 4.0 was a sim.

[Rejarial Galatan]

I am just gonna start smashing my head into my mechs leg for all the good this is doing. Look. Im gonna boil this down for everyone: There are legitimate reasons to have the proposed systems in game. I can sit here till it really IS 3049 trying to get yall to see the logic, but, we are rabid fans of this universe who are as equally obstinant as I am. I can only hope the devs have read my pleas for newbie compassion and making the learning curve for the raw unknowing new players. If not, well, I dare not think on if not. There are some who agree, some who disagree and some who wanna violently disagree with me. Lets see what shakes out when we get our hands on the game.

[Howlin Wolf]

I am hoping the devs have plans to help new players learn in the form of a tutorial that gives suggestions what they need to fight a match, along with an area to learn how to operate their mech so they arent looking like a pack of drunks in their first matches. There are other ways to overcome being new to a game besides easy buttons that will never go away once they are instituted.

[Zylo]

Rejarial Galatan, on 01 May 2012 - 08:21 PM, said:

Volthorne, to break your logic of: keep it out of a simulator, I once again counter with: Aces High and Aces High 2. Combat Flight SIMULATORS that had, yes, HAD/HAVE <IF AH2 is STILL going, dunno honestly> a way to reload the ammo boxes on fighters and bombers and even ground vehicles.

Your next bit of logic: IF you didnt bring enough bullets, thats YOUR problem. Uh, reloading/arming is the same EFFING THING AS HAVING SPARE CLIPS, but where in gods name on a mech will you keep these extra clips that WONT get you killed?

You wanna blow up cuz you cant flush coolant, fine, but for sake of all thats holy, give those who have NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER SEEN, PLAYED OR TOUCHED THE FRANCHISE the effing option.

I played Aces High a bit, and it was NOT a match based game. You could log in and fly around all day shooting at enemies. This of course would mean fuel + ammo would need to be refilled because the match would not end. Your rage (should I post your raging PM here for all to see?) is making your points even less valid as you are now trying to compare totally different game systems of match based MWO vs persistent maps in AH. I never played AH2 so I can't comment on that game.

Again, stop with the noobs having a disadvantage option, everyone knows it's BS because a noob won't miss what they never had but will instead learn to operate their mech within the limits of the heat and ammo mechanics. I don't think anyone is falling for your position as the guardian of new players but rather is seeing you want these additional assistance methods like a coolant flush when you couldn't control heat.

[Rejarial Galatan]

Howlin Wolf, on 01 May 2012 - 08:38 PM, said:

I am hoping the devs have plans to help new players learn in the form of a tutorial that gives suggestions what they need to fight a match, along with an area to learn how to operate their mech so they arent looking like a pack of drunks in their first matches. There are other ways to overcome being new to a game besides easy buttons that will never go away once they are instituted.

Tutorials are fine, but they cannot give the breadth of an actual match ya know?

A new player inheritantly has a disadvantage in ANY game. A veteran of a game will obviously know more than the new. Comes with the territory. And I hate to say it, cuz the term 'noob' is about as foul as any slur in this players book, but, lets all face it, no matter our histories in the BT universe, no matter how many source books we read or TT games of BT we have played or how many games we engaged in if you played the CCG/TCG Battletech game or how many iterations of the Mechwarrior titles you have played. The bottom line fact is, we are going to be playing a game where the mechanics are wholly different than ANYTHING we have seen. Yes, they will take cues from the TT source books and rule books, but not every rule or mechanic will translate into a persistant MMO such as this game. We will all be newbies when we get the game, pure and simple. Lets all get along, and lets just stop this arguing and get back to what matters most! What is that next new tech or mech or pic that we will see come this month?

[Volthorne]

Rejarial Galatan, on 01 May 2012 - 08:21 PM, said:

Volthorne, to break your logic of: keep it out of a simulator, I once again counter with: Aces High and Aces High 2. Combat Flight SIMULATORS that had, yes, HAD/HAVE <IF AH2 is STILL going, dunno honestly> a way to reload the ammo boxes on fighters and bombers and even ground vehicles.

Your next bit of logic: IF you didnt bring enough bullets, thats YOUR problem. Uh, reloading/arming is the same EFFING THING AS HAVING SPARE CLIPS, but where in gods name on a mech will you keep these extra clips that WONT get you killed?

You wanna blow up cuz you cant flush coolant, fine, but for sake of all thats holy, give those who have NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER SEEN, PLAYED OR TOUCHED THE FRANCHISE the effing option.

Time to pick this (removed) apart.

1) Refueling mid-air? Sure, I can do that. It's done all the time IRL. Refilling ammo storages? **** no, (removed)

2) Rearming: to acquire a new supply of weapons. Reloading: Load (something, esp. a gun that has been fired) again. Hence, rearming and reloading ARE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. (removed)

3) The rookies don't need the option of coolant flushes, unless they decide to munchkin. Anyone with eyes and a functioning brain should be able to figure out how to not overheat, and compensate accordingly.

Edited by Mason Grimm, 01 May 2012 - 09:03 PM.
Yep, I removed some stuff.

[Zylo]

Rejarial Galatan, on 01 May 2012 - 08:31 PM, said:

I am just gonna start smashing my head into my mechs leg for all the good this is doing. Look. Im gonna boil this down for everyone: There are legitimate reasons to have the proposed systems in game. I can sit here till it really IS 3049 trying to get yall to see the logic, but, we are rabid fans of this universe who are as equally obstinant as I am. I can only hope the devs have read my pleas for newbie compassion and making the learning curve for the raw unknowing new players. If not, well, I dare not think on if not. There are some who agree, some who disagree and some who wanna violently disagree with me. Lets see what shakes out when we get our hands on the game.

New player training could be done just fine with unrated match areas that result in no C-bill gains or losses. Players could learn the concepts of ammo consuming weapons without needing to pay for ammo in the new player arena. It could be kill or time limited to keep players from spending all their time in the new player arena once they have advanced past the new player status. This is the sort of system that would actually HELP new players by allowing them to learn the mechics without getting a huge bill for repairs or ammo resupply between matches.

Additional mechanics like coolant flush and ammo rearm will do NOTHING to help new players as a new player would not have developed any bad habits to actually NEED these features. Claims that new players need these options really only gets people thinking that you are just asking for systems that YOU need rather than what would actually help new players.

[Mason Grimm]

I would like to remind everyone that while we can offer our opinions on the topic at hand we are not free to offer our opinions on others, their grammar, sentence structure or the thought processes behind their ideas.

Let's be civil shall we?

[Howlin Wolf]

I will be a new player and the last thing I want is an easy button game. Give me the tools to learn how to play the game the right way, rather than giving me an easy mode.

Thanks for the concern but I think I'll do OK without the added help. As long as matches are fair. I figure I can have fun without the fluff.

[Sigmund Sandoval]

'Mechs like the Enforcer and the Hatchetman are fitted with "clips" for their autocannons, designed to make their ammunition easy to reload. I just don't want to see a stupid, "Drive over the ammo icon to get more reloads" thing. It's more than my suspension of disbelief can take.

[wwiiogre]

Volthorne, relax, there are players that want No Heat and Unlimited Ammo, Magic Repair Boxes that fix everything instantly so no one can shoot them while it happens and oh yes coolant flushes so they won't be bothered with overheating if heat is actually used. My nephews that are in 5th grade play the table top game with me and have played mech assault and MW4 and all of them proclaim NHUA as a training game and not real or worth rating yourself in. All of them enjoy pushing the game and learning the hard way. They were new not long ago and I would take them in a BF3 mission or MWO or MW4 or in the tabletop game. Since they listen and learn to adapt by dying the hard way without punches being pulled and they absolutely love being treated like adults and not given a pass because they are new or young.

Did I miss anything?

I leave this wonderful topic in the hands of the Moderators and the Dev's at PGI. I trust they will do the right thing.

Punt

Chris

Edited by wwiiogre, 01 May 2012 - 09:38 PM.

[MaddMaxx]

Rejarial Galatan, on 01 May 2012 - 07:30 PM, said:

And those who refuse to accept the idea of a repair and reload system will not be swayed, my hope is that the devs are swayed in some fasion for a useable and feasable repair/reload/coolant flush system. ya, i dragged that last one over here lol. Ill buy this thread a beer later if its embarassed.

And when/if the Devs are swayed, they will surely call it UA/NH/MFB/BS MODE... While the rest of us will carry on playing the REAL MechWarrior. lol

Edited by MaddMaxx, 02 May 2012 - 06:30 AM.

[Volthorne]

Sorry, wiiogre, I get kind of riled up when people use nonsense to try and counter my arguments. But...

wwiiogre, on 01 May 2012 - 09:37 PM, said:

My nephews that are in 5th grade play the table top game with me and have played mech assault and MW4 and all of them proclaim NHUA as a training game and not real or worth rating yourself in. All of them enjoy pushing the game and learning the hard way.

Thanks for this bit of info, which should end any/all arguments for silly additions. If a 10-year old (assuming wiiogre's nephews are indeed 10, and didn't start school a year behind, or ahead) can play with all the restrictions and dangers an adult player can, then no one should be requesting ANY repair bases/ammo refils/whatever.

Edited by Volthorne, 02 May 2012 - 11:04 AM.

[wwiiogre]

Remember Volthorne, this is the generation of the entitled. The people that want an EASY button or a WIN button. Why should they be bothered with learning skill and patience and heat and ammo management, let alone team work. When I can just download a hack, step into a BF3 server and as soon as the game start push shoot and 20 enemies die. Then wait ten seconds and do it again and again and before the server can boot them they disconnect with their 60-1 kill to death ratio. One of the reasons I stopped playing BF3 was the cheats and hacks were so prolific and the munchkinism was so bad that teammates would kill you to get a vehicle or a Helo. COD MW is even worse don't even want to go there. Just watch my nephews play that one and for 10-12 year olds they are amazing with the skill and because those games are no longer challenging they started watching me play Tribes and MW4 with teams and tro 3025 mechs (thanks GDL and 1st RR and SoR and 1stBB) and saw how hard and challenging the game was. They wanted to try it. When MWO launches I should have somewhere near 10 nephews playing from ages 10 - 25. Did I mention I have 7 brothers and 2 sisters.

So I trust PGI will do the right thing, they have promises a sim and "Not your Grandfathers MW". Even tho I almost resemble that, no grand kids yet, I hope we get the game we have always wanted and MW1-4 and Mech Assault and all others have never delivered.

For those that like magic powerup boxes and instant fix and no heat. There are other games for you. Maybe MWO will give you a carrot, but everything I have seen seems to point in a different direction completely. Although the Hot Drop mission with multiple mechs to respawn in may be cake for those NHUA people that just want to charge forward and then respawn. I have no insterest in it whatsoever and doubt I will ever play that mode.

I hope PGI does however have a training mode so I can try out a new mech or its layout against targets or moving about a map so I can learn maps, train with teammates, etc.

Chris

Edited by wwiiogre, 02 May 2012 - 12:31 PM.

[Vincent Vascaul]

Once your out your out.

[Steel Talon]

Most sphere dropships were armed, can stay on LZ during operation, u could reload here.

[Zylo]

steel talon, on 02 May 2012 - 01:29 PM, said:

Most sphere dropships were armed, can stay on LZ during operation, u could reload here.

This would only really make sense in a true persistent world where the dropship parks in a safe spot far from any fighting. With a persistant world there would be no matches so some form of repair and rearm would be needed. In a match based game there is really little need for repair/rearm because you won't be wandering around for hours looking for enemies and maybe getting into only a few fights like you might in a persistent world environment (think Planetside if you ever played that when it was at it's peak).

In a faster pace match based environment this would simply lead to camping out near the dropship for the advantage. Excess camping near dropships would result in many new players saying "This game is boring, there's so little action, all people ever do is camp near dropship and fire long range at the other team".

Edited by Zylo, 02 May 2012 - 05:41 PM.

[Dustfang]

Duncan Jr Fischer, on 04 April 2012 - 10:34 PM, said:

I agree with those who say NO to resupply. But I also find reasonable to add some kind of MFB or other kind of supply cache to the game, but restrict it to a couple of scenarios for a really big matches and run it on condition that you have, say, just ONE resupply for each mech in a team and the MFB itself is vulnerable and could be destroyed. So the scouts have to choose whether they scout for enemy mechs or their base etc.

Seconded. Single reload, limited supply, and only for VERY protracted matches. Might not even be a full resupply. I think the amount would have to be tweaked and tailored through play testing. But players should still have to be very aware of their loadout. Make those shots count, and if you know you get trigger happy, make sure you have something to fall back on. Simple as that.