219 replies to this topic

[Postumus]

Could we please either stop saying premade or stop pretending that it is a dirty word? A "premade" is just a team that talks to each other. Teams of players dropping together are a deliberate, encouraged part of this game. Furthermore, a "premade" does not have any advantage that is not offered, free, to every member of the community. Teamspeak is free, there is an official, dedicated server for MWO, and you dont even need a mic, you can listen and chat. There are dozens of unaffiliated players happy to have you join.

Instead of crusading against coordinated team play, can we please just do whatever it takes to get people in teams? This is not an Mmorpg where team pvp is a mini-game, teams are what every mechwarrior game is about.

[paladin yst]

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A griefer:

• Deliberately irritates and harrasses other players - Well i can't say i haven't seen some premade players do this but I also would be lying if I said I didn't see just as many if not more PUG players also do the same, But in either case not enough to indict an entire chuck of the gaming population
  
• Uses aspects of the game in unintended ways - Well lets see, MWO is stated to be a team focused game and PGI even provided a voice client to use (two if you consider the original TS server), and they gave us a group buiilding mechanic in game, Nope... as far as premades are concerned no Unintended use abuse happening there
  
• Derives pleasure primarily or exclusively from the act of annoying other users - Well I can't speak for all premade players but 99% of all of the ones I've played with/against have mostly just wanted to fight with big robots and derived pleasure "primarily or exclusively" from a good fight and an earned win, and playing and chatting with friends while doing so.
  
• Cannot be deterred by penalties related to in-game goals - Since premades are not (as discussed before) breaking or bending unintended consequences there are no penalties in place to punish intended core game mechanics.

Thanks for clarifying, thats exactly what premades been doing all along lol, theres not one that doesnt apply to premade.

So team synergy? oh right, griefers always try to dodge that silver bullet

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The fact that you feel you're being griefed simply because you're losing/dying is entertaining. I've joined premades infrequently and fight against them far more often. I really don't mind the challenge when there is one.

Challenges are always fun, that is until u only earn 1/10 of what they earn in the same amount of time comes into the equation. So u like ur entire team to be standard engines, vs 8 with xl +fero/endo+ guass or other cheap toys which basically comes at no costs to them when u`re trying to save every penny to just buy a ams lol.

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Instead of crusading against coordinated team play, can we please just do whatever it takes to get people in teams? This is not an Mmorpg where team pvp is a mini-game, teams are what every mechwarrior game is about.

Problem easily solved, premade vs premade, pug vs pug, which in the case isnt. Team is not what mech is about, mech is far greater, it goes up to community warfare, but a bit too late now, they r already in master and module'd while the rest gets grieved trying to even save up their first mech, or even their first gauss, they have to lose like 15 times less the repair bills to like even get a ppc

Edited by paladin yst, 31 October 2012 - 11:17 AM.

[Psykosis]

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Except installing TS, and finding a room, and dealing with people who are not my friends. I don't WANT to.

I kinda get that - and admittedly I've been in a few groups that has a person with a really disturbing voice, but it's really not that hard to find a different group to drop with. It's not. really. The enjoyment of playing a team game....in a team outwieghs the momentary irritation of some random stranger being irritating.

I can see why alot of you doing pure PUGs are frustrated; you're trying to play football with 7 other people that want to all be the quarterback. You *will* lose. Repeatedly. You'll get some lucky kills when a few people from the opposing side wander off and you either catch them alone in a more powerful mech or they wander alone towards you when there's a couple mechs also near you on your team and you happen to score the killshot. This aren't scientiffic points, they're not you vs. min/max'ers, they're most definately not matchmaker issues. They're issues with you trying to solo a game that's at it's core, is not currently built for pure soloing. This isn't deathmatch. It's more akin to a team deathmatch - and even then team is in the title.

It's like saying WoW is broken for you when you can't solo Onyxia because you spent the last year in game picking flowers to max level in the Barrens cos you like to chat there... You aren't geared, you've no idea how to play a role in a raid group and you're frustrated that the game mechanic of teamplay doesn't suit your aversion to the human voice or unwillingness to take direction to acheive a common goal. Where's Mankirk's wife?!

[Heffay]

What other games out there function better when a team of people work together against a random collection of people on the internet who don't talk?

Oh, that's right. All of them. But it's a problem here because... hmm... I'm having problems making this next leap of logic.

[Agent of Change]

paladin yst, on 31 October 2012 - 11:13 AM, said:

Thanks for clarifying, thats exactly what premades been doing all along lol, theres not one that doesnt apply to premade.

So team synergy? oh right, griefers always try to dodge that silver bullet

I'm a try one more thing since your reading comprehension seems about as lacking as your skill in composition.

From this very site about the game:

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MechWarrior Online puts MechWarriors into a first-person, team-based, tactical battle zone where the victors swim in the spoils of war and are rewarded with the all mighty C-Bill (in game currency).


One of the major gameplay mechanics of MechWarrior Online is team communication. Whether it be in game chat, integrated C3 or a third party VOIP solution, keeping in constant communication with your teammates will drastically increase your team’s chances of success.

Helping to support this notion of communication are the various roles of Mechs and their pilots. Fast moving scouts can feed target and tactical information back to the main battle group and the team commander. This information allows the support and assault role pilots decide where to put their resources to work. Long-range fire support and heavy hitting Assault class Mechs will use this invaluable information to finish the job at hand.

Now i don't expect you to read that anymore than you have read anything else but on the off chance that it actually penetrates whatever's rattling around in your skull... The devs intended team play with voice... i.e. Premades.

Now go toddle off back under your bridge.

[ferranis]

Agent of Change, on 31 October 2012 - 11:23 AM, said:

I'm a try one more thing since your reading comprehension seems about as lacking as your skill in composition.

From this very site about the game:



Now i don't expect you to read that anymore than you have read anything else but on the off chance that it actually penetrates whatever's rattling around in your skull... The devs intended team play with voice... i.e. Premades.

Now go toddle off back under your bridge.

And thats excactly why they are changing it


Phase 1: November 6th

Pre-made groups will be limited to a max of 4 players when playing in random public forums. This is a quick fix to ease the PUG vs PRE issues. We do not consider this a final, nor complete fix to matchmaking.

And now?

[paladin yst]

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Oh, that's right. All of them. But it's a problem here because... hmm... I'm having problems making this next leap of logic.

How could u proceed to the next logic lol, ure a griefer. You go into a game with huge advantage and ure like what? trying to justify that its fair game? lolllllllllllllllllll

Anyway have fun when the system go against griefers, days numbered.

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Now i don't expect you to read that anymore than you have read anything else but on the off chance that it actually penetrates whatever's rattling around in your skull... The devs intended team play with voice... i.e. Premades.

Now go toddle off back under your bridge.

Not smart enough to see that phase 1 coming isnt it lol.

How much intelligence do u need to see that premade vs premade is what the game is intended for, not premade griefing pugs. Still wanna justify premade griefing pugs? lol u should try that bridge of yours maybe it will enlighten u a bit.

Oh wait... ure just afraid u cant grief anymore arent u? maybe not skill enough to fight premade vs premade? if thats the case I can understand, i mean not every clan is as strong as they r, too much griefing makes them weak.

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And thats excactly why they are changing it


Phase 1: November 6th

Pre-made groups will be limited to a max of 4 players when playing in random public forums. This is a quick fix to ease the PUG vs PRE issues. We do not consider this a final, nor complete fix to matchmaking.

And now?

Premade griefer days are numbered, watch them squirm when they get rolled by real clan players, not some ametuer premades that can only grief pugs.

5 more days of griefing, exploit it while u can, as expected from premades.

Edited by paladin yst, 31 October 2012 - 11:39 AM.

[Agent of Change]

ferranis, on 31 October 2012 - 11:30 AM, said:

And thats excactly why they are changing it


Phase 1: November 6th

Pre-made groups will be limited to a max of 4 players when playing in random public forums. This is a quick fix to ease the PUG vs PRE issues. We do not consider this a final, nor complete fix to matchmaking.

And now?

And then putting 8 man teams back in place without the premades having to deal with the pugs anymore (in case this hadn't been made clear we like a challenge, and we like playing with friends) The team focus isn't gonna go away, PUG's will just have to find a new excuse for losing 8-0.

Edited by Agent of Change, 31 October 2012 - 11:35 AM.

[Bilbo]

paladin yst, on 31 October 2012 - 11:31 AM, said:

How could u proceed to the next logic lol, ure a griefer. You go into a game with huge advantage and ure like what? trying to justify that its fair game? lolllllllllllllllllll

Anyway have fun when the system go against griefers, days numbered.

What, sir, will you blame your losing streaks on when you no longer face the phantom premades?

Ninja'd

Edited by Bilbo, 31 October 2012 - 11:36 AM.

[Psykosis]

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What, sir, will you blame your losing streaks on when you no longer face the phantom premades?

....how OP whatever the current FotM is, I'd wager.

[silentD11]

Postumus, on 31 October 2012 - 11:01 AM, said:

Could we please either stop saying premade or stop pretending that it is a dirty word? A "premade" is just a team that talks to each other. Teams of players dropping together are a deliberate, encouraged part of this game. Furthermore, a "premade" does not have any advantage that is not offered, free, to every member of the community. Teamspeak is free, there is an official, dedicated server for MWO, and you dont even need a mic, you can listen and chat. There are dozens of unaffiliated players happy to have you join.

Instead of crusading against coordinated team play, can we please just do whatever it takes to get people in teams? This is not an Mmorpg where team pvp is a mini-game, teams are what every mechwarrior game is about.

It's more that there needs to be a greater degree of separation.

Some people have real life demands that make organized gaming impossible or impractical, others are just casual players. There's nothing wrong with that, and they tend to make up the majority of any gaming community. However the way the economy works PUGs serve as rapid cbill and XP farming chances for premades. Before a PUG player can even afford babies first mech premades can have a stable of all the best builds and a large slush fund to handle new releases as they are released. The only way possible to keep up economically if you don't drop in premades is to throw cash at the game.

Keep in mind that a lot of the "bad behavior" going around (getting trial mechs killed as quick as possible, going afk for a match, boating LRMs) is directly caused by this. These are the easiest ways to try and rapidly farm cash while have no/minimal repair bills. Since you already you know you're completely f'd against a premade there is little incentive to do much else.

Getting people into teams is a nice idea, but it's not realistic. What's really being danced around in the issue of premades is that PUGs are cbill and farming opportunities that ensure premades never have to spend money and always have the top of the line. PUG players are given the choice of throwing money at the game to fix it now, or if they don't want to do that doing afk/suicidal trial/LRM boating for damage and component points to move ahead at a crawl which is the root of a lot of current problems in game.

Now, if the business plan is to force PUG players to spend cash to keep up with premades and that's how the game will make money, that will work, and that's what's in place now. But let's at least be honest about it. And let's also be honest that this situation actively encourages getting trial mechs killed as fast as possible, going afk, and all sorts of other idiotic nonsense to make the grind more tolerable or slightly quicker which is an issue and makes PUGs even more of a mess than they should be.

Not that I really object, it works both for and against me depending on who I can find on a given night, but I'm not going to stick my head in the sand and pretend that a lot of people aren't royally screwed over the way things are.

[Heffay]

paladin yst, on 31 October 2012 - 11:31 AM, said:

How could u proceed to the next logic lol, ure a griefer. You go into a game with huge advantage and ure like what? trying to justify that its fair game? lolllllllllllllllllll

I'm not going into any match where the exact same advantage isn't available to every person in that match.

Choosing to not take advantage of a mechanic the game is built around (teamwork) doesn't make people who do "griefers". It just means you choose to play with a handicap. Your choice. Not mine.

[paladin yst]

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What, sir, will you blame your losing streaks on when you no longer face the phantom premades?

Ninja'd

Gladly, I`d embrace it. I mean 4 premades are nothing when its in phase one, not like they can do anything without a big grp behind them so its a breeze. Phase 2 and 3 will see them ragequit lol.

Just watch how many of these show off griefers left when they fight real premade. They thought they r good, karmas sweet for griefing.

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I'm not going into any match where the exact same advantage isn't available to every person in that match.

Choosing to not take advantage of a mechanic the game is built around (teamwork) doesn't make people who do "griefers". It just means you choose to play with a handicap. Your choice. Not mine.

Ah of coz, I chose to play against 8 xl/endo/fero fully buffed up module'd mechs lol. Its ok 5 days till ametuers realised that they cant grief anymore lol.

Taking advantage of 8 xl/endo/fero fully buffed up module'd grp mechs against 8 unknowns and even multiple trail mechs, is your choice, not mine. Happy griefing.

Edited by paladin yst, 31 October 2012 - 12:00 PM.

[StonedVet]

Im not even gonna start on this ...

nothing is stopping the new people from asking for help AND asking to join a group so we can help them learn the game.

These premades are ruining the game posts NEED TO STOP ...

[RedHairDave]

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[color=#CCCCCC]Garth Erlam, on 30 October 2012 - 04:14 PM, said:[/color][color=#959595]

We are taking steps to fix this (Phase 1 will be soon, in fact) but a lot of this is player perception. I play outside of groups 99% of the time, and in the last two weeks I've played against a grand total of two premades. Today I played 20 matches just to see; got zero.

It can be frustrating to lose like that, sure, but what people often forget is they're losing because they literally do zero group work. No-one uses C3, no-one even uses text chat. Then they get picked apart one by one. I managed to get a random group of guys to talk and we beat an actual premade (one of those two I faced) because a lot of the guys there were great players, they just needed a good leader.[/color]

And no, I don't mean yelling at people who don't listen to you

the premade issue is entirely in the heads of the puggers, shocker

[Agent of Change]

paladin yst, on 31 October 2012 - 11:54 AM, said:

Gladly, I`d embrace it. I mean 4 premades are nothing when its in phase one, not like they can do anything without a big grp behind them so its a breeze. Phase 2 and 3 will see them ragequit lol.

Just watch how many of these show off griefers left when they fight real premade. They thought they r good, karmas sweet for griefing.

And will we see your l33tness joining us in the premade v premade fights or are you going to just continue wading in the kiddie pool farming noobs?

I'm beginning to think the "premades are griefers/ruining the game" thread authors simply want us out of their playground so they can get down to griefing the noobs without worrying that they will be playing people who aren't noobs.

also your logic is staggering if the premades are fighting premades then premades are beating premades meaning premades are winning... so by your logic are only the ones who lose griefers?

Edited by Agent of Change, 31 October 2012 - 12:03 PM.

[IceSerpent]

peve, on 31 October 2012 - 05:24 AM, said:

I am quite good player, yet I am thinking of abandoning this game for now.

I had a nice 2.5:1 kill ratio (I play only as a pug Dragon). Now it is about 1:1, it should be a way higher since there are so many new players.

I had a very good W/L recored also (roughly 2:1), now it is about 1:3

Here's the problem with your logic - more new players doesn't just mean more easy targets on the opposing team, it also means more easy targets on your team. This is why your K/D and W/L go down, the "quality" of your own team just dropped significantly due to influx to a whole lot of new players that have yet to learn all tricks of the trade.

[Guido]

Darkmoose, on 31 October 2012 - 06:09 AM, said:

I have enjoyed my Open Beta time as a Pugger, very little heckling, have come up on some interesting teams, like one full of Jenners, one full of Cats, and one full of Atlai. Now if the other team was loaded out about the same, no prob. Against the Jenners, all we had we assaults and heavies, Against the team of Atlai, we had one assualt mech.

I'm glad you've enjoyed your time, but I can't get over this. How do you think this is even possible with the current matchmaking system. Each team is invariably matched up class for class. I could see this happening before then, because it did. I know that in a lot of cases, my unit ran lighter than most teams, because we actually used the scouts and hunchies as well as the cats and atlas. We won the fight in most cases, but because of teamwork. Which is apparently a bad word to a few of the people in this thread (not referring to you, but I won't call out names *cough* paladin yst *cough cough*).

paladin yst, on 31 October 2012 - 11:31 AM, said:

How could u proceed to the next logic lol, ure a griefer. You go into a game with huge advantage and ure like what? trying to justify that its fair game? lolllllllllllllllllll

Anyway have fun when the system go against griefers, days numbered.



Not smart enough to see that phase 1 coming isnt it lol.

How much intelligence do u need to see that premade vs premade is what the game is intended for, not premade griefing pugs. Still wanna justify premade griefing pugs? lol u should try that bridge of yours maybe it will enlighten u a bit.

Oh wait... ure just afraid u cant grief anymore arent u? maybe not skill enough to fight premade vs premade? if thats the case I can understand, i mean not every clan is as strong as they r, too much griefing makes them weak.



Premade griefer days are numbered, watch them squirm when they get rolled by real clan players, not some ametuer premades that can only grief pugs.

5 more days of griefing, exploit it while u can, as expected from premades.

The only benefits that pre-made groups have is that they communicate. It's that simple. My unit is large enough that I can do drops with people I have literally never played a drop in before, but because they play in the same manner as myself (that's right, we train our members to communicate and ...wait for it....fight as a team. *heart attack from shocking revelation*). Just like you are saying we can't see your side, the facts of teamwork clearly elude you.

As for a level playing field, beside the fact units work as a team, in a game based on teamwork, every single player started this open beta with the same advantage or disadvantage. In your case as well as mine, starting out with a legendary founder pack was a paid advantage. Definitely won't guarantee the win, but you didn't need to put up with the trial mechs either.

It's quite appalling that you folk see this game, and assume that the game will be similar to the mechwarrior 4 campaign on easy mode, or Mechwarrior living legends, where there's maybe 4 guys in a match working as an actual lance, instead of a bunch of rambos. The sheer size of the teams removed the impact of teamwork in most cases, unless your unit consisted of most of the team. In MWO, those 8 guys on each side are it. No back up, no overwhelming numbers, no AI.

So yes, the people who communicate and work together, instead of playing rambo, are going to have an advantage over socially deficient players who believe their supposed raw talent (I've only seen one player out of the last 8 months of actively playing Mechwarrior PVP titles that actually had superior raw talent to trained personnel, and he was an egotist we asked to leave the unit) is actually the determining factor in a team-based PVP game.

What everyone that is "griefing" you is pointing out however, is that this is NOT an unfair advantage, and not some super-squirrel secret that only a select few have come across. Anyone has the ability and the opportunity to do this. So simply put, even teaming up with random people and just listening to whoever is running the drop, you're going to do better. If you are refusing to take the opportunity to do this in a game, then you're sure as hell not going to take an opportunity in your RL, and that's just a sad crime to humanity.

Edited by Guido, 31 October 2012 - 12:27 PM.

[RedHairDave]

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[color=#CCCCCC]Garth Erlam, on 30 October 2012 - 04:14 PM, said:[/color][color=#959595]

We are taking steps to fix this (Phase 1 will be soon, in fact) but a lot of this is player perception. I play outside of groups 99% of the time, and in the last two weeks I've played against a grand total of two premades. Today I played 20 matches just to see; got zero.

It can be frustrating to lose like that, sure, but what people often forget is they're losing because they literally do zero group work. No-one uses C3, no-one even uses text chat. Then they get picked apart one by one. I managed to get a random group of guys to talk and we beat an actual premade (one of those two I faced) because a lot of the guys there were great players, they just needed a good leader.[/color]

And no, I don't mean yelling at people who don't listen to you

felt the need to add this again, does this not end all threads like this, the dev say, publicly that groups are not that big of a number and most pugstomping losses the average pugger sees, is just other puggers.

their argument is dead. it can now be ignored.

Edited by RedHairDave, 31 October 2012 - 12:19 PM.

[Agent of Change]

RedHairDave, on 31 October 2012 - 12:19 PM, said:

felt the need to add this again, does this not end all threads like this, the dev say, publicly that groups are not that big of a number and most pugstomping losses the average pugger sees, is just other puggers.

their argument is dead. it can now be ignored.

As much as I agree with you Dave, you can't confuse them with the 'facts', much like political partisans they know what they know and reality be damned.