219 replies to this topic

[renahzor]

Psykosis, on 31 October 2012 - 06:44 AM, said:

no type chat lobby, no voice chat lobby - but in game C3 will (Surprise!), **AUTOMATICALLY** create a voicechat channel for you and the people you drop with WITH NO FURTHER ACTION REQUIRED after enabling it and downloading the client. How about that? All you issues solved with tools provided for you!

If you've ever turned on C3 you'd already know the problem with this "logic" since the game does absolutely nothing to tell you about the system. Keep trying though, I know you've got better than that.

Wired, on 31 October 2012 - 06:44 AM, said:

No, because pugs will stomp pugs and they will still think it's a premade that somehow cheated the system.

This isn't an RPG. You don't gain experience by fighting whatever is at your level. You learn how to play the game by talking about Tactics, running an organized plan, and battling with tough opponents.

Which is why a real matchmaker uses more than just weight class(size of your tank) to match players to where they should, eventually, hit about 50/50 win:loss. As they improve, so does their W/L, and the matchmaking starts matching harder/more skilled and better equipped opponents. Obviously no system is perfect, but at this point we're going in circles. If you, people like you, and PGI honestly believe the matchmaker is fine as is, then player numbers will show who was right in the end.

[Taryys]

Yup.
TS is far better in voice quality and less eye-Bleeding. The C3 client is painful to look at and in its usability.

It will be enabled for all at some point, hopefully sooner than later. It is really, really, really needed for PUGs!

Psykosis, on 31 October 2012 - 06:53 AM, said:

Hmmm - I'll have to re-enable it tonight and check; you may be right. If so, that does seem like a hinderance and not much better a solution than manually joining a TS server... If that's the case, then TS at the moment is a FAR superior method of grouping as there's already a well established "looking for group" method (for those looking for TS info, it's stickied in this forum - the "unoficial beta server is now the Comstar EU server - there's also an NA server, but it's far less populated atm).

I assumed C3 was there for the purpose of comms in pure PUGs - seems pointless and almost redundant if you have to be grouped for it to work...

[Mystere]

JudgeDeathCZ, on 31 October 2012 - 03:41 AM, said:

We r running premades and we was owned even by puggers(they capped and we had no light mechs left ) so what.

Well, assuming your team was the one we puggers were fighting last night ...

You guys were so focused on chasing me and 2 other suicidal decoys you did not realize your base was being capped until it was too late.

Best part of all? I even lived.

Edited by Mystere, 31 October 2012 - 07:01 AM.

[Ultrabeast]

Squigles, on 31 October 2012 - 06:46 AM, said:

"Open Beta Ruined by Premades"

Nice thread title.

As one of those premade merc corp evil doers, we've brought in roughly 8 new players recruited from inside matches since open beta started. To a man, each and every one of them has said that playing in a team is soooo much better and more fun. Half of those have now bought MC.

Mirror this activity across each and every mercenary corp/house group in the game, and those evil game destroying premades have likely pulled hundreds of players from the PuG pool since open beta and increased their enjoyment of the game exponentially. This creates long term players.

Aside from coming on the forums and raging about the evil premades who exist only to ruin the enjoyment of those who refuse to even make an attempt at teamwork, what have you done for the game aside from creating ever more rage posts to poison the pool for new players reading the front page.

Well said.

[Lin Shai]

Psykosis, on 31 October 2012 - 06:53 AM, said:

Hmmm - I'll have to re-enable it tonight and check; you may be right. If so, that does seem like a hinderance and not much better a solution than manually joining a TS server... If that's the case, then TS at the moment is a FAR superior method of grouping as there's already a well established "looking for group" method (for those looking for TS info, it's stickied in this forum - the "unoficial beta server is now the Comstar EU server - there's also an NA server, but it's far less populated atm).

I assumed C3 was there for the purpose of comms in pure PUGs - seems pointless and almost redundant if you have to be grouped for it to work...

How it works is that if you form a group through the social interface it will automatically pop up and give you voice comms. It's basically automated TS3, sort of.

I think the theory was that people who refused to take 2 mins to use TS3 would do odd things like send people friend requests (maybe like, to people they met on the forums, or in games) thus building up a network (freinds list) of people they could group with and form teams to play the game.

Silly devs.

[Cochise]

Deep Thoughts By Cochise:

If lightning has a lot of vitamins in it, do you hide from it or not?

• The game is PVP so you will die, a lot
  
• It is a new game for many with a learning curve
  
• The Y key is for team chat and works great
  
• It is the season of The Noob
  
• You can form your own group by friending people
  
• An enemy of your enemy is your friend (see above)
  
• Learn the best tactics for your mech
  
• Play as a team, even if other team mates don't
  
• Ask someone to scout
  
• Even if you lose, you can still win if you play smart
  
• The first week of open beta is... just the first week of open beta, time will tell
  
• It's not all about you

[Agent of Change]

@Wired

The post was actually referring to a quote from garth about how he played for several days and ran into like 3 pre-mades that whole time. (and i would expect that a dev could find out with some accuracy that information)

I wish I could stop everyone regardless of playstyle from being asshats in the in game chat, but that is the internet. Premades, the people in them, and the advocates for them are not inherently the problem. most of us are more than willign to help new players, to teach them and to play with them.

I have a vested interest in helping people get better, better players = better games. in MWO better is both player skill, mech build, and ability to coordinate (however you choose to do so).

I am so tired of the guys who pop into a game and start screaming "you are a premade, I knows it! You OP ********" on the chat. What that does is chase what little compassion i have out of my black little heart and gives me the desire to part the offender until he is a smoking wreck on the battle field. It becomes a self fulfilling prophecy on both ends, you assume and accuse a Premade of griefing the game and they will sure as hell grief you because no one like beings snarked at. But on the other side if premades assume that Pug's are scrubs and treat them as such it will only reinforce the idea that we are somehow griefing (which as i pointed out earlier is a laughable idea) and the cycle will continue.

[JollyRoger4u]

hmm, guess im a very strange person...

When i start playing a team game, I almost always play solo (the only exception being when i already have friends who invite me within 5 seconds of me showing up ingame)

I do this to test the game out, see if i like it. If I do, i will look for the options of making my experience better, by joining a company/clan/lance/fishmongers stall -whatever the local varation is called.
If I DONT like it, i will just ****** off and play something else.

the current new player experience is heavily encouraging option 2, not only because of premades, i would go so far as to claiim the premades are not the main issue, but it does strenghten the bad experience.

What i really dont understand is the inability to understand that the new players need to be catered to so that they eventually become "real" players, not because they are entiteled to a experience where they kick any veterans behind with one arm tied behind their back, but they need to feel they have a chance to fight.

Well, I guess my thoughts are useless since i aparantly am really really weird, since i dont start every new game by looking for a father figure to guide me and accept me into the warm embrace of a unit.

also, until matchmaker gets decent for pugs, at least add a indication next to player names if they are in a group, that would lessen the guesswork about who are or arent premades... cant be that hard to program, can it?

[Cochise]

JollyRoger4u, on 31 October 2012 - 07:05 AM, said:

hmm, guess im a very strange person...

When i start playing a team game, I almost always play solo (the only exception being when i already have friends who invite me within 5 seconds of me showing up ingame)

I do this to test the game out, see if i like it. If I do, i will look for the options of making my experience better, by joining a company/clan/lance/fishmongers stall -whatever the local varation is called.
If I DONT like it, i will just ****** off and play something else.

the current new player experience is heavily encouraging option 2, not only because of premades, i would go so far as to claiim the premades are not the main issue, but it does strenghten the bad experience.

What i really dont understand is the inability to understand that the new players need to be catered to so that they eventually become "real" players, not because they are entiteled to a experience where they kick any veterans behind with one arm tied behind their back, but they need to feel they have a chance to fight.

Well, I guess my thoughts are useless since i aparantly am really really weird, since i dont start every new game by looking for a father figure to guide me and accept me into the warm embrace of a unit.

also, until matchmaker gets decent for pugs, at least add a indication next to player names if they are in a group, that would lessen the guesswork about who are or arent premades... cant be that hard to program, can it?

It's a team oriented game. If you are not a team oriented player, it may not be for you. That really is all there is to it.

[renahzor]

Agent of Change, on 31 October 2012 - 07:03 AM, said:

@Wired

The post was actually referring to a quote from garth about how he played for several days and ran into like 3 pre-mades that whole time. (and i would expect that a dev could find out with some accuracy that information)

I wish I could stop everyone regardless of playstyle from being asshats in the in game chat, but that is the internet. Premades, the people in them, and the advocates for them are not inherently the problem. most of us are more than willign to help new players, to teach them and to play with them.

I have a vested interest in helping people get better, better players = better games. in MWO better is both player skill, mech build, and ability to coordinate (however you choose to do so).

I am so tired of the guys who pop into a game and start screaming "you are a premade, I knows it! You OP ********" on the chat. What that does is chase what little compassion i have out of my black little heart and gives me the desire to part the offender until he is a smoking wreck on the battle field. It becomes a self fulfilling prophecy on both ends, you assume and accuse a Premade of griefing the game and they will sure as hell grief you because no one like beings snarked at. But on the other side if premades assume that Pug's are scrubs and treat them as such it will only reinforce the idea that we are somehow griefing (which as i pointed out earlier is a laughable idea) and the cycle will continue.

The funny thing is, most people won't even talk ingame. They'll get stomped repeatedly for a few hours in a ****** trial mech, earning no XP and losing any time there are more non-trial mechs on the opposing team (this is actually a great indication of who will win the match right now, for several reasons). Then they'll pack up and go home having never said a word.

Most of us asking for matchmaker changes, trial mech revamp, ingame chat lobbies that can help facilitate solo players finding friends and groups to play with, and many other noob helpful functions have been doing so since closed beta. We're advocating it because we believe that these changes are necessary to the new player experience and for the game to be more than a flash in the pan money grab. Every time there's any discussion of the truly terrible matchmaking system in this shell of a game the discussion is filled with people berating them as being terrible, suck it up and L2P, from people like yourself and ffs from PGI devs as you've pointed out.

Perception is everything.

[demoyn]

paladin yst, on 31 October 2012 - 01:25 AM, said:

What a way to welcome new players to the game by making them unable to earn cbills while the worthless premade grief new players all their way to the release date and beyond.

Not much point gearing up when the next match u went into is full of premade and say hi to 100k repair bills.

So when can we expect griefing to stop or is this just premade online?

Why don't you just join a group? This is a team game and there is a community hosted teamspeak set up to help facilitate solo players who want to actually play the game the way it was intended find like-minded players.

[Rakkar]

Came hear to say premades != griefing.

Leaving satisfied, as it's been thoroughly covered.

As many have said, those who are crying "Premades must go" should help newbies get into premades instead of ******** and moaning.

It's a team game. When CW releases, I wonder if lone wolfs will cry about all the premades then...

Edited by Rakkar, 31 October 2012 - 07:13 AM.

[McPanzer]

I just must not be in the same games as everyone else, I play in a group of 2 and don't see any of the mass pug stomping that gets talked about. I think some people just like to whine...

[Agent of Change]

renahzor, on 31 October 2012 - 07:11 AM, said:

Most of us asking for matchmaker changes, trial mech revamp, ingame chat lobbies that can help facilitate solo players finding friends and groups to play with, and many other noob helpful functions have been doing so since closed beta. We're advocating it because we believe that these changes are necessary to the new player experience and for the game to be more than a flash in the pan money grab. Every time there's any discussion of the truly terrible matchmaking system in this shell of a game the discussion is filled with people berating them as being terrible, suck it up and L2P, from people like yourself and ffs from PGI devs as you've pointed out.

Perception is everything.

i cannot disagree with you, nor do i want to. I am not qualified to comment on the noob grind but i can say I wouldn't want to do it. The trials and match making desperately need an adjustment to make the initial experience better, you need to hook new players in their first hour of play to keep them.

Perception is everything... which is why the more and more virulent divide between premade diehards (I am one) and Pug diehards has devolved into a hysterical shouting match where Invective and bile (veiled or blatant) is spewn all over by a minority of actors on both sides blowing the issue so far out of proportion it's hard to get perspective.

There is a problem, there is a lot of blame to spread around, but the issue is not "premades ruining the game" or "pugs are too lazy to try to group up" it's both and neither and even more that appropriate games aren't being setup.

If the loudest voices were trying harder to breed communication and understanding rather than scream at each other then the perception would improve and we could all be a little more objective. But put someone on the defensive and they are going to attack back and that just degrades the conversation (something i am unfortunately guilty of on occasion.)

[PurpleLike]

Ditto the premade buzz kill... Why don't devs just set up ranked servers where premades can play and let the rest of us have some fun. Problem solved.

[Sevaradan]

IMO its a non issue, I started playing during open beta. I died ALOT, so instead of crying about "trial mechs sucking" or premades to excuse my poor performance I read the forums and deathcam'd other players and learned how to suck less.

It takes less than a day to get a jenner K, and it makes money even solo in a defeat.

Because PPL are smart enough to shoot at stuff other people are shooting at doesn't make it a premade, it just means the players have common sense.

[Xantars]

Mechwarrior has always been a team based game and always will be its not one mech agaist the world its lances of mechs fighting as a unit against other lances if you join a Unit or heaven forbid a Clan then you have a team fighing onyour side. If you insit of going the lone wolf route then thats your choice but dont expect to do anything but lose alot unless you work closely with the other lone wolfs.. cause I can garentee that if you dont you will get stomped into the ground by a unit that dose.. If you want a game were you can just run off and go willie nillie then go play Wot you might live longer ..

[EvilNelmart]

Bigbaddaboom, on 31 October 2012 - 01:45 AM, said:

you just suggested getting in a premade.. WTF?

As a new player myself, what is wrong with joining a premade? It seems pre-mades are groups of players that like the game and like to play together. I've never really understood the whole complaint with premades. I can understand getting upset if your getting griefed as that just diminishes the gameplay experience. But do something about it... Join a group, get some back up, try to be social, make friends, all of these, imo, can only improve the players experience. Not all premades grief, not all solo people get destroyed in 3 seconds, I have played about 10 games so far and Ive really enjoyed it. Im not good yet, and there does seem to be a somewhat big learning curve but not unsurmountable by anymeans. the trial mechs seem to be under powered but whatever, its a free2play game, with the option of upgrading. I hope to join a group and learn the ropes with a team instead of alway getting my *** kicked in, I just dont see a clan forum or guild recruitment page or anything like that.

[Helmer]

Matchmaking a the New User experience are known issues currently being worked on per the threads here and here


Closing Thread.


Cheers.

[Terriskai]

I'm 8-4 pugging today.
I don't see the issue.