219 replies to this topic

[Window]

IMA GRIEFING MAH LAZORS

[Crimson Dux]

To the OP:

"Master, I marvel how the fishes live in the sea.—Why, as men do a-land—the great ones eat up the little ones."

[1608 Shakespeare Pericles ii. i. 27]

[Darkmoose]

Crimson Dux, on 31 October 2012 - 06:25 AM, said:

To the OP:

"Master, I marvel how the fishes live in the sea.—Why, as men do a-land—the great ones eat up the little ones."

[1608 Shakespeare Pericles ii. i. 27]

Being good (Big Fish) at what you do goes a long way towards winning. Give people a few weeks, the experience will level out.

[Tasorin]

paladin yst, on 31 October 2012 - 01:25 AM, said:

What a way to welcome new players to the game by making them unable to earn cbills while the worthless premade grief new players all their way to the release date and beyond. Not much point gearing up when the next match u went into is full of premade and say hi to 100k repair bills. So when can we expect griefing to stop or is this just premade online? By the time this game hit release, this griefers would already be fully module'd and loaded, once again thanks to griefing ps. to those idiots who want premade proof eg. superboy vs noob dragon giantmole vs nova dragon hercul3z vs giant dragon y3llowcow vs baby dragon heromonk3y vs cute dragon etc etc... Dont need a brain to know which group is premade. Also if u see the 6-8 ppl focus fire on one when when its in the midst of combat, its obvious.

They make a cream for all that chapped A$$.

[An Ax Murderer]

BlackAce, on 31 October 2012 - 06:15 AM, said:

This thread reminds me of when I was in school and the regular Football/soccer PE teacher/coach had left and not yet been replaced. They let the Team Captain organize the team. He immediately held tryouts and picked the 11 best players in the school. They lost EVERY. SINGLE. GAME. Why? Because he'd picked 10 Strikers and one reluctant goalkeeper. They all wanted to be the one who scored goals and the teamwork was utterly abysmal they got owned by 'inferior' teams time and time again and still they wouldn't accept that 4-4-2 beats 1-3-7. They blame each other and absolve themselves of any guilt; A would say it was Bs fault for ignoring him and not passing when he had the chance. C would blame B for taking wild shots that wasted attacks etc. None of them ever sat down and faced the fact that it was a team game that need co-operation and co-ordination. It's the same in MWO. You're never going to prosper as a PUG (believe me I've tried it,) because you are always at the mercy of the hubris of your team mates and like the football team, most of them will never learn. The matchmaking IS terribly unbalanced atm but that is caused by crap PUGs who Leroy or try to solo it, not by L33t 'premades'.

Give this man a medal, for he understands.

A premade, to play along with the comparison, is your average 4-4-2. They communicate, and are a well balanced mix of mechs. I have yet to see a single person leeroy in a premade.

The players who are in premades are probably a little more skilled than your average puggie... they did, after all, decide to join a teamspeak instead of whining (and I use that word lightly) about the Matchmaking.

[Ultrabeast]

Heffay, on 31 October 2012 - 05:32 AM, said:

When people realize that less than 5% of the games they are in feature even a partial pre-made, what will they whine about next?

This is true given the average number of players and those on TS/other voice servers.

[renahzor]

I love the replies to this kind of thread and how they've evolved. People should really stop apologizing for the terrible matchmaker. When someone first joins MWO, the experience at the moment is really bad. And yes, it's ok to be bad at the game when you start, what isn't ok is a matchmaker that matches only by weight class and takes nothing else into consideration. Imagine if the Starcraft ladder ignored everything and just matched people at random, how much fun would someone just starting out have when they draw the short straw and get matched with someone that's been playing SC tournaments for 10 years 3 times in a row?

There is currently no breeding ground for pilots to become better. The answer is not to immediately join a team, as time goes on that will become more and more of a challenge anyway as most teams will stop taking noobs in trial mechs once they've filled out a solid roster. We want a smarter matchmaker, not one that consistently matches players with better equipment, skill, organization and motivation against brand new players. I will never understand why there is so much hostility toward the idea of a matchmaker that can take more into account than just "yup, they have similar weight classes" *AND STILL FAILS AT THAT* occasionally.

Removing pre-made groups from the solo que is a smart first step and honestly cannot come fast enough. Beyond that, the matchmaker also needs to make strides toward matching similar skill pilots so we can improve, and stop just getting stomped. At this rate all the apoligists in this thread and others are just going to drive away new players who could potentially become better pilots and join their ranks. This is a pretty critical time in the game's life cycle, first impressions happen only once. You're all making the community look like garbage, and the matchmaking as it sits (as well as devs outright telling new players to L2P) are just reinforcing that new players who want to jump in and just shoot some mechs aren't welcome here.

[Tekerton]

Cole Allard, on 31 October 2012 - 01:51 AM, said:

I play lonewolf (most of the time)

every time I encounter a Premeade group on my side, they are nice people :
"Hello GL-HF, we are premade, if you want you can stick to us".

Thats very nice, seeing what paths they take to cross the map, how they cover each other - allways a pleasure to look at and to be part of (even if not in the TS).

Every time I encounter a premade group on the orther side (what happens way more often),
I give my best to sell my skin as expensive as possible. Show them some tricks and tactics I learned...and hopefully...at least I imagine them on the other side saying "nice, look at that guy".

That way or another...playing (winning or loosing) against better opponents makes me better. Playing against weaker opponents just makes me sleepy.

And hey...what the hell? One match is 10 minutes...as if I did keep a count of every match!

You Win. Great GREAT attitude, straight the fuggup.

j

[Kunae]

renahzor, on 31 October 2012 - 06:32 AM, said:

The answer is not to immediately join a team, as time goes on that will become more and more of a challenge anyway as most teams will stop taking noobs in trial mechs once they've filled out a solid roster.

You're confusing teams with units.

When people say "get on a team", they are not talking about joining a faction or merc unit. They are talking about hopping on one of the many teamspeak servers, especially the "unofficial" beta teamspeak server and dropping with other folks who are doing the same.

There is no obligation. There is very little vetting. Most veterans are very accommodating to actual new people who are learning, and can help them get acclimated a great deal faster than "pugging your way to victory" can.

[Psykosis]

How many of you that regularly play PUG actually USE the in-game voice comms (C3)? I've had it running prior to this patch and have only ever seen one other person join in.

Look guys, you WILL get melted very fast, you WILL get outflanked, you WILL get out numbered, you WILL lose if you are trying to rambo this game. All of this will happen in exponentially less time the more rambos you have in your pug. We were averaging less than 4 minute wins last night with 6man drops. Some of us are seasoned players, but honestly most of us were slurring drunk...I played the last drop on river city with light amp on cos I hit the key on accident and couldn't find it again. Still got 2 kills and 500ish damage. It's not because we are super badarse l337 playerz, it's because we're in comms with each other. It really is THAT much more effective than a bunch of randoms flailing about with zero situational awareness....

Hearing premades are uber is starting to be like saying high resolution is uber. Stop playing in 640x480. Seriously. Just enable C3 if you can't be bothered to join a teamspeak server. Join teamspeak (comstar EU is probably the most consistently populated ATM) if you really want to learn the game and have an experience other than failing in everything save possibly scouting.

Stop playing in 640x480

[renahzor]

Kunae, on 31 October 2012 - 06:38 AM, said:

You're confusing teams with units.

When people say "get on a team", they are not talking about joining a faction or merc unit. They are talking about hopping on one of the many teamspeak servers, especially the "unofficial" beta teamspeak server and dropping with other folks who are doing the same.

There is no obligation. There is very little vetting. Most veterans are very accommodating to actual new people who are learning, and can help them get acclimated a great deal faster than "pugging your way to victory" can.

If there was ANY INGAME indication of how to go about it, I might agree with a very small portion of your point. As it sits the game has no lobby, no chat, no way for people to actually join an ad-hoc team to even try. Couple that with matchmaking that can't see past weight classes, and this elitist attitude of forum trolls that all the "elite" units have taken on, and you're setting up to intentionally drive away all but the most resolute noobs.

[Tekerton]

OriginalTibs, on 31 October 2012 - 03:55 AM, said:

You don't gain effectiveness by magic, and a team does not coordinate by telepathy.

You know there is a problem when you lose ten out of ten.

A thoughtful player will understand that inexperience is part of the cause. The experience of the opposing force is another part. True, this part of the imbalance can be attributed to the rudimentary state of the matchmaker. You should have seen what it was like before it even matched classes: eight hunchies -vs- eight atlas is not pretty. This matchmaker is at least a start.

But.

You should also own your part of the problem instead of simply blaming your tools.

Your tools are not your master, the craftsman must master his tools. This requires conscientious practice. It isn't always fun. Once you have mastered your tools then you will not only find more opportunity for fun, you will also have some pride in your accomplishment.

Own part of the problem instead of simply blaming your tools. Brilliant.

I liken this to the oh so too many times I have heard that "the sights on my rifle caused me to miss!!!" Dope the damn thing and adjust for windage!

[Wired]

renahzor, on 31 October 2012 - 06:32 AM, said:

I love the replies to this kind of thread and how they've evolved. People should really stop apologizing for the terrible matchmaker. When someone first joins MWO, the experience at the moment is really bad. And yes, it's ok to be bad at the game when you start, what isn't ok is a matchmaker that matches only by weight class and takes nothing else into consideration. Imagine if the Starcraft ladder ignored everything and just matched people at random, how much fun would someone just starting out have when they draw the short straw and get matched with someone that's been playing SC tournaments for 10 years 3 times in a row?

There is currently no breeding ground for pilots to become better. The answer is not to immediately join a team, as time goes on that will become more and more of a challenge anyway as most teams will stop taking noobs in trial mechs once they've filled out a solid roster. We want a smarter matchmaker, not one that consistently matches players with better equipment, skill, organization and motivation against brand new players. I will never understand why there is so much hostility toward the idea of a matchmaker that can take more into account than just "yup, they have similar weight classes" *AND STILL FAILS AT THAT* occasionally.

Removing pre-made groups from the solo que is a smart first step and honestly cannot come fast enough. Beyond that, the matchmaker also needs to make strides toward matching similar skill pilots so we can improve, and stop just getting stomped. At this rate all the apoligists in this thread and others are just going to drive away new players who could potentially become better pilots and join their ranks. This is a pretty critical time in the game's life cycle, first impressions happen only once. You're all making the community look like garbage, and the matchmaking as it sits (as well as devs outright telling new players to L2P) are just reinforcing that new players who want to jump in and just shoot some mechs aren't welcome here.

No, because pugs will stomp pugs and they will still think it's a premade that somehow cheated the system.

This isn't an RPG. You don't gain experience by fighting whatever is at your level. You learn how to play the game by talking about Tactics, running an organized plan, and battling with tough opponents.

[Psykosis]

Quote

As it sits the game has no lobby, no chat, no way for people to actually join an ad-hoc team to even try.

no type chat lobby, no voice chat lobby - but in game C3 will (Surprise!), **AUTOMATICALLY** create a voicechat channel for you and the people you drop with WITH NO FURTHER ACTION REQUIRED after enabling it and downloading the client. How about that? All you issues solved with tools provided for you!

[Squigles]

"Open Beta Ruined by Premades"

Nice thread title.

As one of those premade merc corp evil doers, we've brought in roughly 8 new players recruited from inside matches since open beta started. To a man, each and every one of them has said that playing in a team is soooo much better and more fun. Half of those have now bought MC.

Mirror this activity across each and every mercenary corp/house group in the game, and those evil game destroying premades have likely pulled hundreds of players from the PuG pool since open beta and increased their enjoyment of the game exponentially. This creates long term players.

Aside from coming on the forums and raging about the evil premades who exist only to ruin the enjoyment of those who refuse to even make an attempt at teamwork, what have you done for the game aside from creating ever more rage posts to poison the pool for new players reading the front page.

[Taryys]

Currently, as far as I am aware, this only works for preformed groups.
Integration for PUGs is not done yet.

[Guide] Playing with Friends, Groups, and Teams

Psykosis, on 31 October 2012 - 06:44 AM, said:

no type chat lobby, no voice chat lobby - but in game C3 will (Surprise!), **AUTOMATICALLY** create a voicechat channel for you and the people you drop with WITH NO FURTHER ACTION REQUIRED after enabling it and downloading the client. How about that? All you issues solved with tools provided for you!

[Krivvan]

peve, on 31 October 2012 - 06:03 AM, said:

I just use it as a gauge, since there are no other gauges.

I dont care about it myself, but it is a measure, right? What would be a better measure for a lone wolf?

Average XP is a better measure.

[Henchman 24]

Quote

I expect whiners to log off and never post again.

- because the thread quote button is broken!

Um, I've seen tons of whiners...this isn't one of them, this is a valid point ALL beta testers agreed on...and we see exactly how fast this was addressed.

PC Gamer content, and an overpriced 'Hero' mech that's neutered due to lack of melee combat. THOSE were priorities for PGI at this point.

Every single 'whiner' people see have valid points...mostly.

At this point all I can assume is the PGI's initial investors have a ton of pressure on them, AND they are a complete ball of a$$hats!

Russ get some Grambaas(go look it up), and tell your investors to stop screwing up a wet dream please. They couldn't give a crap whether this fails or not, they just want the money.

Hand them a mech shaped all day sucker, and tell them to chill, and let you make the game people want, because this endeavor has split a fanbase that was once fairly solidified(TT rules arguing aside).

We've all noticed the lack of an online counter now...gee, why was that removed? Don't bother to answer, none of the believable answers for this are any good either.

This person is right, in another week or so, if things don't massively change for the better, this game will be in deep Ghost Bear poo.

EDIT: Had to address the comments from Squigles.

You aren't evil unless you act that way with a pre-made. The problem is...it's so easy to pug stomp right now, most let ethics fly to the wind. And the whole point of the F2P game, is to attract new players, right now, it's repellent, and premades are the primary ingredient. Not only that, if the game was built right, the Lone Wolf players would vastly outnumber the premades and have their own area/server/whatever they could perform well in or at least be given the chance to. This doesn't exist, right now, it can be best summed up as "fish in a barrel".

It may seem I'm pissy at premades, I'm not. This is PGI's massive lack of understanding how this would affect their community, or lack of caring vs. external pressure. Either way, it's lame at best.

Edited by Henchman 24, 31 October 2012 - 07:00 AM.

[Wired]

renahzor, on 31 October 2012 - 06:40 AM, said:

If there was ANY INGAME indication of how to go about it, I might agree with a very small portion of your point. As it sits the game has no lobby, no chat, no way for people to actually join an ad-hoc team to even try. Couple that with matchmaking that can't see past weight classes, and this elitist attitude of forum trolls that all the "elite" units have taken on, and you're setting up to intentionally drive away all but the most resolute noobs.

A couple of things: First, there needs to be more communication tools for pugs and I'm disappointed that they didn't have any of this ready before Open Beta.

Second, If you notice a lot of the people who are saying, "No, premades are not the problem" give such advice as, hop on teamspeak and join us some time. That's not an elitist attitude.

You know what is going to drive away the noobs? The people who have such a vendetta against organized team play that they actively hop onto the game and either claim they're in a 8-man premade there to stomp when they're not even(yesterday morning, ran into this when I was watching a friend play.) or they're trolling constantly and accusing the other team of being an 8 man premade.

This entire argument they're starting on the false premise that anytime a pug loses, it's to a premade is not worth trying to ruin everyone's experience over.

And as far as proof goes, there was a post going around that quoted one of the devs saying that the actual numbers of premades vs pugs are low. Very low. And that the numbers are going to be released soon. Now, I can't find the post it was referring to either so I'm not entirely sure how authentic that is, but it'll certainly put an end to this discussion one way or the other if it does show up.

[Psykosis]

Quote

Currently, as far as I am aware, this only works for preformed groups.
Integration for PUGs is not done yet.

Hmmm - I'll have to re-enable it tonight and check; you may be right. If so, that does seem like a hinderance and not much better a solution than manually joining a TS server... If that's the case, then TS at the moment is a FAR superior method of grouping as there's already a well established "looking for group" method (for those looking for TS info, it's stickied in this forum - the "unoficial beta server is now the Comstar EU server - there's also an NA server, but it's far less populated atm).

I assumed C3 was there for the purpose of comms in pure PUGs - seems pointless and almost redundant if you have to be grouped for it to work...