176 replies to this topic

[Desecrator]

Krivvan, on 01 November 2012 - 02:15 PM, said:

Just a note for everyone, this is what typical stats look like when you exclusively play with good premade teams. It's what mine looked like too for a bit.

And thats why premades should not be allowed in pug fights..

You think solo players are going to stick around for that ?
And when the solo players leave, the game will fall, because they are a majority.

Stats are useless, because teams stack the deck. If they fought other teams on even ground it would be different.
I cant muster any respect for any team right now, because their stats are padded on pugstomps and are basically moot.

Your stats mean nothing because of pugstomps. Period

[SVK Puskin]

I would like to know what means PUG?

[Desecrator]

quasihuman, on 01 November 2012 - 02:51 PM, said:

Nice K/D, but only possible due to the removal of collisions.

No collision, lag armor with weapons not registering hits (big issue) , and streak missles which mean they dont have to aim.
Add in 140 kph, and jumpjets, and you figure out its the mech, not the player.

Its not skill, its a bad design with broken mechanics and op weapons
You have to shoot then a million time to register hits, esp with lasers.

Ever wonder why you can shoot a jenner for 5 minutes and not kill him ? The code is borked, your weapons are not registering hits.
He knows this, its why he plays a jenner.

[Lavrenti]

Krivvan, on 01 November 2012 - 02:15 PM, said:

Just a note for everyone, this is what typical stats look like when you exclusively play with good premade teams. It's what mine looked like too for a bit.

A K/D ratio of 63? I don't know whether to laugh or cry; mine is around 0.4 and I don't expect it to significantly increase. The question that immediately springs to mind, however, is how much of that was gained in fighting against other premade teams? Because if it was just gained by stomping PUGs, then all it proves is that pugstomping really is a problem.

ENS Puskin, on 01 November 2012 - 03:21 PM, said:

I would like to know what means PUG?

PUG = Pick Up Group. 'Round here it usually means those who just hit the launch button to play the game, rather than joining a group before doing so.

[Particle Man]

So people need screenshots and evidence that teams working as teams in a team game will win against unorganized people?

surely the devs shoudl do something about that and we need to tell them, even though they already are working on it and said so a month ago and the first part of it will be in on tuesday.


but surely more threads will make tuesday come faster and maybe let the devs know to do something about it

[LogicSol]

Desecrator, on 01 November 2012 - 03:23 PM, said:

No collision, lag armor with weapons not registering hits (big issue) , and streak missles which mean they dont have to aim.
Add in 140 kph, and jumpjets, and you figure out its the mech, not the player.

Its not skill, its a bad design with broken mechanics and op weapons
You have to shoot then a million time to register hits, esp with lasers.

Ever wonder why you can shoot a jenner for 5 minutes and not kill him ? The code is borked, your weapons are not registering hits.
He knows this, its why he plays a jenner.

Entertaining post, when his videos show him hunting down jenners.

[Vhyle]

I have to say, of the 50 or so matches I've personally called, I've only run into 10 other premades who were identified as either BWC, Skjaldborg, ARMD, and Smoke Jaguars. BWC were fought twice and they were partial, Skjaldborg was a full group I believe which ended up being the best match I've ever called while being a member of DHB, and the best match I've had playing this game. Smoke Jaguars tested my ability, and the games we had against them rated as fun as the match against the Skjaldborg. ARMD put up a fight, but our brawling proved to be better, no offense to ARMD.

Either way, facing other premades is becoming more rare by the day, and trying to scrim your own unit doesn't work because of the larger player pool. It's literally impossible now for us in DHB to try and scrim each other. Out of 10 tries, all 10 failed, when in closed beta we would be able to get 10/10. I fear trying to scrim another unit will be as impossible as trying scrim your own unit.

I believe there are more pug vs pugs going on, but I also have to believe there are premades that are dropping pretty often. The premades will roll over pugs, I mean I've had over 130 drops, 8 losses (we did stupid stuff like not RTB and yeah) but of those 130+ matches, unfortunately, most are vs pugs. I really want to be calling matches against other units, we don't want to face roll pugs because it's simply not a challenge. It keeps my calling sharp, but the challenge is just not there and we want the challenge.

It's nothing against the pugs, they can't help it. It falls on the shoulders of the PGI dev team, and I have every confidense that they will get this sorted out most rickey tick. They are on it, they know the problem, and they will work it out for the betterment of the community. We may think we know what we want, but PGI knows what we want because it's PGI's game. Keep the faith in PGI, they are doing a great job, and the issues will be worked out.

[SVK Puskin]

Lavrenti, on 01 November 2012 - 03:26 PM, said:

A K/D ratio of 63? I don't know whether to laugh or cry; mine is around 0.4 and I don't expect it to significantly increase. The question that immediately springs to mind, however, is how much of that was gained in fighting against other premade teams? Because if it was just gained by stomping PUGs, then all it proves is that pugstomping really is a problem.



PUG = Pick Up Group. 'Round here it usually means those who just hit the launch button to play the game, rather than joining a group before doing so.

Thanks!

[Cragger]

Vhyle, on 01 November 2012 - 03:52 PM, said:

It falls on the shoulders of the PGI dev team, and I have every confidense that they will get this sorted out most rickey tick. They are on it, they know the problem, and they will work it out for the betterment of the community. We may think we know what we want, but PGI knows what we want because it's PGI's game. Keep the faith in PGI, they are doing a great job, and the issues will be worked out.

This is not a sudden issue. It's been at the forefront of the Beta forums for over 3 months now. There is no faith left to be had.

[Hikyuu]

quasihuman, on 01 November 2012 - 02:51 PM, said:

Nice K/D, but only possible due to the removal of collisions.

fail troll.

additionally, i think that this thread should put these complaints to rest. if people are doing badly in game, it's probably just the learning curve. and that can be mitigated by asking the guys who run matches how to play, and learning. sticking together would help pugs tremendously.

[Kraven Kor]

Cragger, on 01 November 2012 - 09:35 AM, said:

Unfortunately the evidence that Kraven Kor presents is not universal. He is in a light mech, a Raven. This moves the data in a more PuG then Premade bias because a light mech is the first mech a non founder player can aquire. Because of this when pugging you will find yourself against less premades because there is a larger pull of players to be matched against.

If Kraven Kor repeated the experiment using all weigh classes then averaged them you would have a true scientific experiment instead just a sliver that in his case supports his stance that premade teams aren't a problem.

I began to do so myself then ran into the problem that as far as I know MWO does not have a screenshot feature and anytime I hit printscreen I only get a black image and not a screenshot. I am assuming because I play in fullscreen and have two monitors.

Er, I don't pilot a Raven?

Confusing me with Krivvan, maybe?

[Crieghton James]

I agree. With all the complaining about premades, I've seen very few. Maybe I'm just lucky. Good post OP.

[Vhyle]

Cragger, on 01 November 2012 - 04:04 PM, said:

This is not a sudden issue. It's been at the forefront of the Beta forums for over 3 months now. There is no faith left to be had.

Yes, I know Cragger. I still have faith in PGI because I know what an Open Beta really is, we are still testing just on a more open environment. A lot of people think Open Beta means launch, when it isn't. Technically it's not a launch, but a lot of people want to make it seem that it is. In reality though, it's still a testing phase. Semantics and all, and people will continue to have their opinions about it. I see both sides of the argument.

Still, PGI will fix it, and once they do the masses will find something else to complain about and make 10 million posts about the exact same issue, sounding exactly the same as the post previous to it, as we are seeing now with the current 3 main issues that the community holds deepest in their hearts.

You can only please the Mob for so long, until they decide to pitchfork another issue and you are forced to please the Mob again with another sacrifice. It's a never ending thing.

[Tempered]

I can't see the screenshots well, but I believe one important data point is missing. Length of time of the match. The pure pug vs premade matches generally last all of 3 or 4 minutes, with some going as short as two minutes. Pug vs Pug generally lasts longer.

You could even argue that we now have a third group. Veteran pugs. A group of veteran pugs will pretty much stomp a group comprised of mostly fresh meat.

[NocturnalBeast]

Hikyuu, on 01 November 2012 - 04:10 PM, said:

fail troll.

additionally, i think that this thread should put these complaints to rest. if people are doing badly in game, it's probably just the learning curve. and that can be mitigated by asking the guys who run matches how to play, and learning. sticking together would help pugs tremendously.

Fail Response!
Facts are facts, if you can post a screenshot of a Jenner pilot with that good of a K/D ratio from before the removal of collisions, I will change my mind.

[Scratx]

Lefty Lucy, on 01 November 2012 - 06:04 AM, said:

I know a certain community that seems pretty obsessed with "wangs"...

Well, when you have the Yen Lo Wang introduced into the game it is bound to produce a rash of wangtastic jokes...

Sadly, the Wang will never live it down. But the jokes will get old and feel like arrows to the knees anytime they're used. And you'll be denied cake when you use them.

Wait, what do you mean, the cake is a lie? Oh, well. Launch zig.

TLBFestus, on 01 November 2012 - 07:19 AM, said:

If you flip these stats on their heads, you will see that the pre-mades are meeting PUGs 80-90% of the time, which is why they feel that the typical PUG is getting crushed on a regular basis.

The truth is that most pre-mades are beating PUGs consistantly, but a lot of the PUGs aren't noticing because it's only happening to them (meeting a pre-made) 10-20% of the time. The rest of their win-loss comes from meeting other PUGs who just happened to be better that game.

The matchmaker atm makes it unlikely for premades to match other premades because they need to match their class loadout. However, since there are so many more pugs, even that still means pugs rarely meet premades, except at apparently certain hours of certain days.

The fact that steamrolls don't mean anything should go unsaid, but too many people assume otherwise. I suppose it's comforting to think you were owned by a team full of "leet-speak voice-operating haxxor exploiters" than a bunch of random puggers who probably never saw each other before working together to beat you 8-0...

Seriously, folks. The only way to be sure you're facing a full-on 8-man premade is if they outright tell you. Dying horribly is not proof.

I should know, I mostly play on teamspeak in dropships and I HAVE been steamrolled more than once. (though I usually am the one on the side of the steamrollers)

Also, finally, the attitude of many of the posters here is the reason why many people don't bother announcing they're in a premade... why should I say anything if there's a real risk of getting our opponents to ragequit right there and shorting ourselves of a good fight?

I kind of want the score screen to say who's grouped or not despite these fears, though... I think it's unlikely the boogeyman will go away otherwise.

[AceTimberwolf]

Lavrenti, on 01 November 2012 - 03:26 PM, said:

A K/D ratio of 63? I don't know whether to laugh or cry; mine is around 0.4 and I don't expect it to significantly increase. The question that immediately springs to mind, however, is how much of that was gained in fighting against other premade teams? Because if it was just gained by stomping PUGs, then all it proves is that pugstomping really is a problem.



PUG = Pick Up Group. 'Round here it usually means those who just hit the launch button to play the game, rather than joining a group before doing so.

About 20 kills were from pugs . I don't remember correctly but just about 3 or 4 kills with my dragon. Other than my death I was just capped everything. I tried though. Thankfully most people know me good or bad and will leave me alone if I'm pigging and my team dies. I'll still try to kill them tho Lol.

[Krivvan]

quasihuman, on 01 November 2012 - 04:57 PM, said:

Fail Response!
Facts are facts, if you can post a screenshot of a Jenner pilot with that good of a K/D ratio from before the removal of collisions, I will change my mind.

From September.

But I don't consider this k/d that valid (same with the one in the opening post) since it's a mixture of premade and pugging. I just couldn't help it.

[Cragger]

Vhyle, on 01 November 2012 - 04:33 PM, said:

Yes, I know Cragger. I still have faith in PGI because I know what an Open Beta really is, we are still testing just on a more open environment. A lot of people think Open Beta means launch, when it isn't. Technically it's not a launch, but a lot of people want to make it seem that it is. In reality though, it's still a testing phase. Semantics and all, and people will continue to have their opinions about it. I see both sides of the argument.

Still, PGI will fix it, and once they do the masses will find something else to complain about and make 10 million posts about the exact same issue, sounding exactly the same as the post previous to it, as we are seeing now with the current 3 main issues that the community holds deepest in their hearts.

You can only please the Mob for so long, until they decide to pitchfork another issue and you are forced to please the Mob again with another sacrifice. It's a never ending thing.

Once you start accepting monetary gain for goods and services on an open market you are no longer in a beta. This is a released good and service to an open market, it is no longer a beta. They may label it a beta in hopes of misleading the naive but it is not a 'beta' project anymore.

Even Wargaming.net which is PGIs current closest competitor did not allow the sell of virtual currency (gold) for monetary currency during their open beta. If you are willing to believe and excuse MWO as being a 'beta' then you might as well label all MMOs as betas since they are never at a fixed 'final' state because MWO is no different. PGI is being paid money for their good that is now released onto the market, thus it is a released good no matter how you try to slice it.

[Rathe]

if you ever run into a cReddit Merc Corp group, we try to announce our premade-ness beforehand. It's only fair.