200 replies to this topic

[Khobai]

As I see it, these are the weaknesses in the current system:

1) Forces you to play variants you dont want to play.
2) Every mech has the same exact skills which is boring
3) Any mech can use any module which is boring
4) The system is completely rigged towards getting you to spend MC on GXP.

I actually dont mind not having choices in the skill tree... because we all know from WoW and other games with open-ended skill trees that certain choices are ALWAYS better than others. I do however think each mech should have a unique skill progression tree with skills unique to that mech. I also think there should be more limitations on modules, like assault mechs not being able to use scouting modules for example...

Edited by Khobai, 12 November 2012 - 12:46 AM.

[Kassatsu]

Give mechs skill slots. Have each skill take a set number of slots based on it's category. Maybe eight slots. Master skill can take four, elite skills take two, and basic take one each. Leave the unlocking requirements as they are, though maybe remove the requirement to unlock every single skill at any given level for every single variant to unlock the next one. I never understood that other than as a forced money sink, and not even an interesting one or one that I'm willing to do. Are the skills THAT good? I doubt it.

At least then there'd be some variety in your mech skill setup. Granted I'm sure that would result in a cookie-cutter build for every mech ever, but the system itself would be more interesting and you'd have to make a conscious decision on which skills to equip, rather than just grinding mech exp and unlocking all of them.

[Khobai]

Quote

Granted I'm sure that would result in a cookie-cutter build for every mech ever

Yep thats why I dont agree with a system that lets players choose their skills. It just results in cookie-cutter builds. I would much prefer a system where the skills that you unlock are pre-determined for each variant, but each variant would have unique skills.

[Tennex]

but arn't all games designed to be time traps? sht how else would they get people to pay them for the privilege of sit in front of computers for hours and come out with nothing to show for it.

Edited by Tennex, 12 November 2012 - 12:52 AM.

[Bloody]

the current tree just encourages more time sink grinding.

and you have to do it with 3 variants , which you may or likely may not , even care about .

not only that, they are boring. It is like the developer decided to try bore folk into grinding like a korean mmo.

i think the whole XP tree is thrash . Brainless, boring and unimaginative. At least cookie cutter skill trees have potential to be interesting and variant . This? this is just thrash . Just imagine

a skill tre for an Atlas like this

Pick 3 Regular skills out of 6.
2 Veteran out of 6
1 Elite out of 4

sure there will be the cookie cutter nazies screaming how their build is better than all else but at least it will be interesting

Edited by Bloody, 12 November 2012 - 01:14 AM.

[Draco Argentum]

Khobai, on 12 November 2012 - 12:42 AM, said:

I actually dont mind not having choices in the skill tree... because we all know from WoW and other games with open-ended skill trees that certain choices are ALWAYS better than others.

That is why WoW moved away the tree model. Now they have a slottable skill model. Yes there are still cookie cutter configs, but they depend on the fight so you still get to think and customise based on the fight, your role and your raid composition. Trees pretend to have more options than this, but they're almost all bad options.

My proposed solution has similarities to what WoW has done. I think this is actually better than a no choice tree even if there is an obvious cookie cutter build. Since I have 7 slots and I'm giving new accounts 7 abilities already unlocked the power gap between a newbie and a vet is much less than the current system and pretty much anything else proposed.

[Ultrabeast]

Draco Argentum, on 12 November 2012 - 03:10 AM, said:

That is why WoW moved away the tree model. Now they have a slottable skill model. Yes there are still cookie cutter configs, but they depend on the fight so you still get to think and customise based on the fight, your role and your raid composition. Trees pretend to have more options than this, but they're almost all bad options.

My proposed solution has similarities to what WoW has done. I think this is actually better than a no choice tree even if there is an obvious cookie cutter build. Since I have 7 slots and I'm giving new accounts 7 abilities already unlocked the power gap between a newbie and a vet is much less than the current system and pretty much anything else proposed.

I like it. I've posted a few times saying the same thing. The skill trees now are kind of bleh, don't really do anything. It would be great to have the choice between different trees, like let's say you have a brawler atlas and can choose offense, defense, or support tree:

1) You go offense, that gives you like 5/10/15/20% damage bonus to weapons per level. Gives you extra damage, but you don't get the extra defense the defense tree gives you, or the extra ammo/whatever the support tree gives you.

2) You like to be out on the front lines of your unit, so you can choose the defense tree instead. Gives you 5/10/15/20% bonus to your armor. Lets you tank longer, but doesn't give you the extra damage or ammo.

3) You are a support sniper or LRM boat, so you can choose the support tree to give you 5/10/15/20% ammo bonus or whatever, so you can fire longer. You can substitute stuff however you want.

The point is you have to choose, and that choice makes things customizable and interesting. Mathematically, you're not gaining any kind of "OP Bonus" over anyone else, because if someone with a 20% damage bonus comes up against somoene with a 20% armor bonus, their damage bonus will be nullified. Basic math.

[bobthebomb]

Draco Argentum, on 12 November 2012 - 03:10 AM, said:

That is why WoW moved away the tree model. Now they have a slottable skill model. Yes there are still cookie cutter configs, but they depend on the fight so you still get to think and customise based on the fight, your role and your raid composition. Trees pretend to have more options than this, but they're almost all bad options.

My proposed solution has similarities to what WoW has done. I think this is actually better than a no choice tree even if there is an obvious cookie cutter build. Since I have 7 slots and I'm giving new accounts 7 abilities already unlocked the power gap between a newbie and a vet is much less than the current system and pretty much anything else proposed.

i agree this is a good system ! (see my post on page 1)

in mwo : each variant should have different choice !
: each mech you own should get xped independently with choice good enough to not be forced in one tree. for example if i own 2 cat k2 i should be able to skill them differently (provided the skill choice is rich enough)

[FunkyFritter]

Agreed. I would much prefer pilot exp that gives you a customizable skill tree independent of the mech you're piloting. People will natually find their preferred niche in their own time, using game mechanics to encourage it stifles variety.


Edit: Having read more of the topic I see other people suggesting a slot system instead of trees, that sounds great too.

Edited by FunkyFritter, 12 November 2012 - 03:34 AM.

[Aisriyth]

I'd like to see the system change from the boring concepts and the tree of Basic -> Elite -> Master.

To something like Weight Class(bonuses for any and all mechs of that weight class) -> Chassis(works for all variants of said chassis) -> Variant(specify bonuses or unlocks based on the specify variant)

So, something like this

Assault
|
v
Atlas ------------------------------------- Awesome
| |
v v
AS7-D -- AS7-D-DC -- AS7-RS -- etc. AWS-8Q -- AWS-8R -- AWS-8T -- etc.

[Draco Argentum]

Okay guys, knock it off with the alt accounts voting. At least I assume PGI Cant Do Netcode is an alt. If not thats pretty hardcore.

Aisriyth, on 12 November 2012 - 04:05 AM, said:

I'd like to see the system change from the boring concepts and the tree of Basic -> Elite -> Master.

To something like Weight Class(bonuses for any and all mechs of that weight class) -> Chassis(works for all variants of said chassis) -> Variant(specify bonuses or unlocks based on the specify variant)

My thoughts exactly http://mwomercs.com/...mech-xp-system/

[Ultrabeast]

Draco Argentum, on 12 November 2012 - 05:43 AM, said:

Okay guys, knock it off with the alt accounts voting. At least I assume PGI Cant Do Netcode is an alt. If not thats pretty hardcore.



My thoughts exactly http://mwomercs.com/...mech-xp-system/

You would be surprised : ) Voted in the new poll. Maybe repost it to suggestion forums as well? What do you think about my suggestion above? It's the system we used in a Mechwarrior mod I played for a long time and it worked great.

Edited by Ultrabeast, 12 November 2012 - 09:53 AM.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

I put in a provisional Yes vote. I think the system needs to be tweaked more. More end-game type options for the mech xp, for instance, and the 3x variants required to progress past Basic is prohibitive. Still, I think that it is on the right path, especially for competitive/e-sport play.

[Xorak]

I voted YES.

I agree with several of the issues, especially having to buy so many mechs.. That part seems like an obvious ploy to get us to spend more MC, and I don't like that feeling. On the other hand, I still think it's better than nothing, and there's enough else to fix I'd rather them not prioritize XP skills yet..

[Vulix]

I think it's good enough where they should focus on other aspects of gameplay.

[Velba]

I'm not a big fan of the XP system, but it's not broken, just boring.

[CodeNameValtus]

No customization and manditory maximization in order to be competitive...that's about as boring of a system as one can come up with...

You also bring up an excellent point, about having 2 chassis in one class mastered.....why would that person ever spend any money towards a third chassis in the same class? There's not really much more that another light can do that a Jenner/Raven can't already do. Unless they come out with a 35 tonner that has all missle hardpoints, but really, I probably wouldn't spend money on that anyway....just C-bills.

PGI seems to have some general direction they are heading, but a somewhat poor business minded sense with how they are doing things. I see what they are trying to do with a short game business model. But their long-game model basically is non-existent. I don't see how PGI can manage/support this game for more than a year or two. There's not much in the way of purchaseables, the grind for mechs/bays/etc can all be basically achieved in short order for seemingly standard rates, however, these are mostly all one time transfers of cash for playability, and after that, there's not really a need for additional funding sources from a player standpoint. So the only influx of new financials would be new players, to support their development team, however, there's nothing really going to be released that would attract a large new player base.

[MustrumRidcully]

I am really favoring the approach of efficiencies also as some kin of module - slottable skills really give the most variety and never allows you to say "I am maxxed out": There is always something to tinker with.

Quite possibly one of the greatest strength from Startrek Online - the Bridge Officer powers. Even if you could max the skill tree and have the best gear, you are still switching around BOFFs.

[Suko]

I'd like to see more asymetrical mech bonuses. Instead of each player having the same unlocks, it would be interesting to let them choose three basic unlocks they can have equipped at a time. Some might choose heat-saving perks while others might choose speed-perks. This wouldn't make it so static and predictable.

[Thirdrail]

I don't want skill trees, because that will inevitably lead to the "right" and "wrong" way to choose skills, like every other game with skill trees. They were smart to avoid that in a tactical game, in my opinion.

I hate that every mech has the same skill buckets. Couldn't there be variance between light, medium, heavy, and assault, at least?

Modules are the worst. 15000 gxp for a 15% capture speed bonus (wow, let me log out and organize a parade!) so that you can then spend SIX MILLION on the device itself. Really? That goofy little thing I spent a hundred hours earning needs to cost more than most medium mechs? And it's not like it's even a blanket effect. That buys you one module, which you then have to move around from mech to mech because it's a single object. I could see it if the bonus was something like +50% capture speed, but +15% doesn't really change the way anything plays out in the game. With these incredibly tiny maps, any fast mech can still get from one base to the other in far less time than it will take you to cap a base. That is ridiculously expensive, in terms of both GXP and money, for what it's doing. For six million, it should come with an autographed picture of Lee Majors for your cockpit.