310 replies to this topic

[Khobai]

double means twice as much

one times two is two not 1.4

double heatsinks should be 2.0

[PropagandaWar]

I have a fix. Make the Heatsinks 2.0 to expel heat like amd, then increase ballistic reload time. then sit back and watch the light show. having the second heatsink run at 40% efficency defeats the purpose. Ill's be bringing me my AC 10 Machine gun.

Honestly though. Having a DHS weigh the same as a SHS and yet dissapte twice as much heat doesn't seem legit. Its a name, but doesnt mean it is actually twice as efficent. Its physically larger so only a 40% increase from the standard heatsink at the cost of 2 additional crit slots seems a bit off. A 160% increase seems more reasonable. Devs are worried that we will never have to manage there mechs and just run and gun and I bet they would be correct.

Edited by PropagandaWar, 02 November 2012 - 12:49 PM.

[wanderer]

As it stands, DHS being at 1.4 renders me unable to fit enough of them into my Atlas to match my desired heat sinkage.

I'll likely have to drop endosteel and engine rating to get DHS to even match my previous heat removal with SHS. 20 DHS = 28 SHS at this point. For a 300-rated engine, that's a whopping 24 crits taken up- where if DHS actually were the canonical 2.0, 14 HS = 28 HS, and it only takes up SIX crits. DHS become incredibly overwhelmingly crit-space hogs in short order.

With 1.4 "DHS", it takes 22 DHS to get 30 heat sinkage (30.8, namely). With a 300 rated engine, that's a whopping 30 crits outside of the engine. SHS are 18.
With 2.0 "DHS", it takes FIFTEEN, or a mere nine crits.

Of course, if your engine rating is lower, the overwhelming critical space problems show up sooner as fewer sinks can be fitted into an engine.

[3rdworld]

lsp, on 02 November 2012 - 12:36 PM, said:

Age of conan was a good game anyway, the community just sucked.

By good you mean no content and terrible balance....

wait are we talking about AoC or MWO?

Edited by 3rdworld, 02 November 2012 - 12:49 PM.

[Vassago Rain]

dymlos2003, on 02 November 2012 - 12:42 PM, said:

Oh yes, ok gotcha...

I'll take a random forum users word over the guys actually making the damn game, ok. And big energy weapons aren't useless, they are only useless with a mediocre pilot, that must say something about you

All this whining is just people pissed off that they can't make their dream cheese builds. Did we just forget about the last 4 months of playing with SHSs, the game was just fine then. DHSs will be tweaked just like everything else.

They can't even get 1+1 right, dude.

[Boatswain Higgs]

Given how heat works in MWO, I fully expect to be using double heat sinks - whether they're 2.0 or 1.4 - on every 'mech I run. 2.0 will make my life easier; 1.4 will make it slightly less easy. At the end of the day, I'll take any improvement I can get over the pain of single heatsinks.

[Rifter]

The Awesome AWS-9M

It's already useless you are better off dropping a ER PPC, and you want to make the heat dissipation of that mech worse? Are you kidding me?

Double means double, make them double heatsinks, this isnt rocket science.


This is a complete joke, i just spent yesterday farming cash to upgrade 2 mechs to double heatsinks counting on them being fixed, i specifically waited until you said it would be fixed on the 6th to upgrade anything regarding heatsinks and now you tell us you are going to nerf them to less than half their strength?

I want 3 mil cbills back for the money i spent on broken heatsinks.

[Norris J Packard]

Amechwarrior, on 02 November 2012 - 11:59 AM, said:

My current Atlas has 21 DHS for a heat cap/dissipation rate for 32/3.2 and the change will drop it to 29.4/2.94 while I was expecting to get the full 42/4.2 if DHS was working right in full.

With the new method, even if I swapped to SHS and added endo I would only gain 5 tons and could have a SHS build of 26/2.6 compared to the 29.4/2.94 of the new DHS.

The new model actually downgrades my build from the already downgraded current implementation. Those extra 3 capacity is not worth the 1.5 mil pricetag+endo. They should either drop the price of DHS or up the rate to 1.5-1.7 if you want to make it worth while.

This is the exact same problem I am running into.

DHS is actually worse now.

dymlos2003, on 02 November 2012 - 12:42 PM, said:

I'll take a random forum users word over the guys actually making the damn game, ok. And big energy weapons aren't useless, they are only useless with a mediocre pilot, that must say something about you

No. They're useless.

Anyone who uses Large Pulses is a jobber and is using a suboptimal build.

And if you say "4 LPL Atlas-RS" at me like it means something, I am gonna laugh.

[buckX]

Atlas DDC:
2xLL, Gauss Rifle with 3 tons of ammo, 3xSSRM2s with 2 tons of ammo, AMS with 1 ton of ammo, Case in LT for ammo stores. Strip .5 tons leg armor.

17 DHS, providing 23.8SHS.

With Endosteel, 22SHS, 4 of them in legs, providing either 24 or 26 (can't remember if it's 50 or 100% bonus) while in water. Lets not forget the big durability advantage in having singles vs. doubles.

[Jad3d]

AWS-8Q
275XL
5 MPulse
2 LPulse
and as many DHS's as I can fit in.

[Deedsie]

I run an AWS-9M Awesome, 2 ER PPCs, 2 Medium Pulse Lasers, 1 Large Laser, 2 Streak SRM-2, AMS, 20 total double heat sinks.

I get absolutely no change whatsoever except for more heat from the pulse lasers.

[Norris J Packard]

Oh hey, everyone is posting that DHS is actually making their builds worse now.

Huge surprise there!

[Dymlos2003]

Sigh... people these days. It's pretty obvious that they are testing what 1.4 will be like and then next patch will probably be 1.8 or something. They are trying to find the perfect balance to, you know, balance the game. Would I like DHSs to be 2.0 sure it would make heat not a problem, and that is why they are making it like this.

Remember when repairs were in the millions? Yeah...

[Amechwarrior]

Norris J Packard, on 02 November 2012 - 12:52 PM, said:

This is the exact same problem I am running into.

DHS is actually worse now.

It's the assault classes that really get hurt the most from the change. Lights and mediums that rely on the internal 10 HS a lot more make out better in the end.

[Norris J Packard]

dymlos2003, on 02 November 2012 - 12:58 PM, said:

Sigh... people these days. It's pretty obvious that they are testing what 1.4 will be like and then next patch will probably be 1.8 or something. They are trying to find the perfect balance to, you know, balance the game. Would I like DHSs to be 2.0 sure it would make heat not a problem, and that is why they are making it like this.

Remember when repairs were in the millions? Yeah...

This is why we make the concern known now.

DHS is not an upgrade anymore, in fact in many cases it is a downgrade. This isn't rhetoric, look at any of the posts with people giving hard numbers concerning their heat counts.

Amechwarrior, on 02 November 2012 - 01:00 PM, said:

It's the assault classes that really get hurt the most from the change. Lights and mediums that rely on the internal 10 HS a lot more make out better in the end.

And it is the Assault Class that is the only one who can actually carry around the weight of the bigger energy weapons without gimping themselves, or use more than one. That's why this decision is such a bad idea, but I think you know that.

[buckX]

For a non-ballistic Atlas RS build:

4xLL, 2xLRM15s with 4 tons of ammo, Case, AMS with 1 ton of ammo.

Endosteel + SHS = 21 SHS (4 in legs)

DHS = 16DHS = 22.4.

[Vassago Rain]

dymlos2003, on 02 November 2012 - 12:58 PM, said:

Sigh... people these days. It's pretty obvious that they are testing what 1.4 will be like and then next patch will probably be 1.8 or something. They are trying to find the perfect balance to, you know, balance the game. Would I like DHSs to be 2.0 sure it would make heat not a problem, and that is why they are making it like this.

Remember when repairs were in the millions? Yeah...

The perfect balance is 2. Double of a normal one. 1+1.
They don't need 'metrics,' or 'tests.' They don't need to show they have absolutely no clue what they're doing. This one's given to them. It works this way, beause screwing it up doesn't only ruin the math, but it ruins all hope you have of building 'different' mechs using the tech.

Yet, they've seen fit to make doubles 1.4 times as effective, because 'laserboats.' Laserboats!? It's gauss and streaks that are dangerous. No one gives a damn about lasers. In fact, lasers need a serious boost to ever become a threat.

[Kushko]

Fiddling around with some Assault mech theorycrafting it would appear that 1.4 double heat sinks would be worse than single heat sinks in every possible situation.

For example on a RS Atlas with 2x large lasers per arm could fit 22 DHS (10+12 in a 300 engine) before running out of space which would translate in to 30.8. On the other hand with SHS i could fit aprox 37 before running out of weight. Even if i fit only 1 large laser per arm and NOTHING ELSE i would only have the space for 2 more DHS (24) which would translate in to 33.6, and again with SHS i would free up 10 more tons which would mean 47 SHS.

If DHS value were 2.0 as intended than 22DHS would be 44 as apposed to 37 from SHS and in the 2nd situation 48 vs 47. OP? No not really, just slightly better and perhaps worth the 1.5mil to actually fit them.

1.4 is bad and to be perfectly honest im shocked at how bad PGI testers are at balancing the game. The fact that they didnt notice that DHS were bugged in the first place leads me to believe that their either incompetent or are using gausscats and nothing else, balancing and bugfinding the game around that.

[Amechwarrior]

Norris J Packard, on 02 November 2012 - 01:01 PM, said:

And it is the Assault Class that is the only one who can actually carry around the weight of the bigger energy weapons without gimping themselves, or use more than one. That's why this decision is such a bad idea, but I think you know that.

I was hoping full DHS would bring about an end to the Gauss-kingship in the heavy class and open up a ton of options of assaults but oh well. I think it will be adjusted in time. PGI time...

[wanderer]

dymlos2003, on 02 November 2012 - 12:33 PM, said:

Oh shush... this is why we are beta testing. They obviously saw something when DHS were 2.0.

It wasn't that they were working like SHS in the engine, that's for sure. As noted repeatedly, it basically jams a fork into the idea of using DHS on most heavier 'Mechs and calls it "done" with what we're getting on the 6th.