310 replies to this topic

[Zerikin]

Jenner's with medium lasers. Example will be the JR7-F. With DHS 1.4 I can sustain 6 SL for about 33.3s of continuous fire according to my theory crafting. Upgrading to 4x ML and 2x SL gives about 15s sustained fire, not enough. DHS 2.0 gives 25s which becomes viable. Not accounting for the pilot tree skills.

Making PPCs viable is something that not even DHS 2.0 will help though. Running more than one is simply too hot.

Edited by Zerikin, 02 November 2012 - 01:10 PM.

[3rdworld]

CN9-AL

4mpl
2ssrms
18 (double) heatsinks

currently 26 soon 25.2.

Removing the MPLS that I won't be able to shoot for MLs and adding ES I save 1mil in DHS upgrade and get 25 dissipation.

1 mil for .2 dissipation? GAME CHANGER

[Blackfire1]

Double post ignore this.

Edited by Blackfire1, 02 November 2012 - 01:12 PM.

[Norris J Packard]

Edit.

Edited by Norris J Packard, 02 November 2012 - 01:13 PM.

[Vulture2k]

wrong thead.. forget it..

i have no desireable dhs build with this change anymore..

better you just increase awesome head hitbox to 2x2 meter so at least i know its meant to be completly useless..

Edited by Vulture2k, 02 November 2012 - 01:15 PM.

[Blackfire1]

Yea ignore that. Something fed up and it double posted on two tab in chrome. O_o...

That was for a completely different topic.

[Kunae]

[Edit: Blackfire1 needs to learn how to post like normal people... ]

Edited by Kunae, 02 November 2012 - 01:18 PM.

[Vassago Rain]

Vulture2k, on 02 November 2012 - 01:12 PM, said:

wrong thead.. forget it..

i have no desireable dhs build with this change anymore..

better you just increase awesome head hitbox to 2x2 meter so at least i know its meant to be completly useless..

I feel the same way. At least we can do SRM bombs that die after blowing their loads, right?

[RootBeerBaron]

Blast! I just did the math, and DHS does, in fact, help my swayback. I thought I could complain with the rest of you.

[Blackfire1]

Kunae, on 02 November 2012 - 01:13 PM, said:

It's best to actually know what you're talking about before opening wide and shoving your foot in there.

Or you could just ******* ignore it and let me live and learn. Or is that too much for people?

There is no difference from knowing. And having outdated information.

Edited by Blackfire1, 02 November 2012 - 01:19 PM.

[zmeul]

HBK-4H

2 x LL
1 x AC/10 + 2tons of ammo
Endo
4 x DHS
Standard Eng 200

Edited by zmeul, 02 November 2012 - 01:18 PM.

[betocorp]

gausscat > let us fit halfHS in engine for less weight and more one balistc hardpoint in arm

founder cat > 2xLRM15 + 4xSSRM + 6DHS

all jenners with laser+SSMR

[wanderer]

RootBeerBaron, on 02 November 2012 - 01:16 PM, said:

Blast! I just did the math, and DHS does, in fact, help my swayback. I thought I could complain with the rest of you.

DHS rapidly lose effectiveness as you add more of them, the tipping point being at 17 sinks.

If you're using less than 17, it'll render some level of benefit. Higher than that and you start drowning in a lack of critical space trying to compensate.

Lights and mediums will likely get something out of the deal. Many heavies and assaults (especially assaults) will end up stuck with SHS if they want any reasonably large level of heat removal.

[Sinnersaix]

Well how about 1.7 DHS...? Fair to meet in the middle.

[Tickdoff Tank]

RootBeerBaron, on 02 November 2012 - 01:16 PM, said:

Blast! I just did the math, and DHS does, in fact, help my swayback. I thought I could complain with the rest of you.

Just curious, but how much does it help your Hunch? Does it help enough to matter? What if you compare the cost of the upgrade to the amount of extra dissipation? And do not forget that some weapons are going to increase in heat as well.

[Squigles]

HBK-4SP

Standard 200 engine (8 internally mounted DHS functioning as single)
10 externally mounted DHS's
2 SSRM2's
4 Medium Pulse lasers

Current version sinks 2.8 hps before pilot skills, and runs a bit on the warm side.

Que PGI's fix and it sinks 2.52 hps, and with the heat "bug" fix, the lasers generate more heat.

Boy, what an upgrade, thanks PGI for the "fix".

CPLT-A1 (silly build)
315XL (10 internal DHS working as singles, 2 in the extra slots working as DHS)
8 externally mounted DHS
6x srm4

Currently sinks 3 hps

After fix.... sinks 2.8 hps.

Boy, could you just "not" fix the DHS's and do us all a favor. All it's going to do at this point is make light mechs even sillier since they're about the only mechs that are going to pull a benefit....like most of the other weight saving "new tech".

[WardenWolf]

I didn't realize someone had started a thread about this, so I had started my own. This is probably more useful, though, so I will copy my two builds here:

Configuration 1 with single heatsinks:

Founders Atlas
300 XL Engine
Standard internals
18 tons of standard armor
2 x ERPPCs (one on each arm)
1 x Gauss Rifle (right torso)
1 x AMS (left arm)
1 ton AMS ammo
3 tons GR ammo
33 single heatsinks (10+2 in engine, 21 additional)

Great range, decent damage, but a bit weak due to the XL engine... and definitely runs hot. I had expected DHS to allow me to move to a standard engine and increase heat efficiency a small amount (10-15%). Nothing game-breaking there, right?

Planned Config 1 DHS version:

Founders Atlas
300 Standard Engine
Standard internals
18 tons of standard armor
2 x ERPPCs (one on each arm)
1 x Gauss Rifle (right torso)
2 x Medium Lasers (center torso, as backup weapons)
1 x AMS (left arm)
1 ton AMS ammo
4 tons Gauss ammo
19 double heatsinks (10+2 in engine, 7 additional)

That should have been equal to having 38 single heatsinks, for a little heat efficiency boost. The medium lasers provide backup firepower if both arms / torsos are destroyed. An extra ton of ammo for the GR as well, since I run out sometimes. Still, nothing here appears to be a game-breaking power advantage, right?

Now when I tried the above, what I really ended up with *today* was only 28 single heatsink equivalent - a noticeable drop. I moved back to singles for now (wasting more cbills) and then figured I would go back to DHS once they fixed the in-engine ones. That was going to be soon, right? Well, now with the new DHS rules I would be at 26.6 heat! Even lower than today! What the heck, folks?

Config 2 with single heatsinks:
Atlas RS
300 XL Engine
Standard internals
18 tons of standard armor
4 x Large Pulse Lasers (2 in each arm)
38 Single heatsinks (10+2 in engine, 26 additional)

Moving to double heatsinks was again expected to give me more survivability by going to a standard engine, and I was also going to get a small speed boost. Here is what I run today, thanks to DHS:

Config 2 with double heatsinks:

Atlas RS
323 Standard Engine
Standard internals
18 tons of standard armor
4 x Large Pulse Lasers (2 in each arm)
23 Double heatsinks (10+3 in engine, 10 additional)

This gave me a small *drop* to heat, though close enough I didn't much notice, because of the DHS bug; I had the equal of 36 heatsinks instead of the 38 I had before. However, it was worth it in order to gain survivability with a standard engine. What does November 6th hold for this design, though? A drop to only 32.2 heatsink equivalents, nearly 10% lower than now, *and* my Large Pulse Lasers will generate *more* heat than they do currently. A double-whammy

Edited by WardenWolf, 02 November 2012 - 01:24 PM.

[Kushko]

Blackfire1, on 02 November 2012 - 01:10 PM, said:

Double post ignore this.

Was it a double post? Or was it a 1.4 post...

[Vassago Rain]

RootBeerBaron, on 02 November 2012 - 01:16 PM, said:

Blast! I just did the math, and DHS does, in fact, help my swayback. I thought I could complain with the rest of you.

Because it barely needs sinks to begin with. It's a common trend for mechs that don't worry about heat, like small laser users and gauss.

[Lauranis]

I want to direct everyone in this thread, (particularly the "devs are idiots" crew) to read this thread:

http://mwomercs.com/...heat-sinks-dhs/

and to pay particular attention to:

Quote

After fixing the EHS bug, and setting DHS to a cannon value of 2.0, we experienced anticipated result. Heat was no longer a concern, increasing DPS exponentially on certain types of mech loadouts. After testing a variety of standard builds, we settled on 1.4. This value maintains the spirit of both DHS and maintains the integrity of MWO's overall gameplay experience.

PGI will monitor DHS' closely and tune this number up or down depending on the telemetry data received from production servers.

That last line in particular is vitally important to this discussion, the worst thing you can do is to stop using your DHS builds.

If you want the developers to make a proper, informed, decision keep using them. Give the devs the data they need to see how DHS builds work in the real environment of the production servers.