310 replies to this topic

[Vlad Ward]

Garth isn't a business owner. He's the Community Manager.

And pretty much all of PGI's higher ups have been Battletech fans and players since the 80's.

[Vassago Rain]

Garth Erlam, on 02 November 2012 - 04:23 PM, said:

Man, I can't wait to see your game

My game would not be about how 1+1 isn't 2, mister Garth. That is assuming I were to make a game, as game making isn't my trade, or even one of my interests.

Man, I can't wait to see your chess skills. Man, I can't wait to see your warhammer army. Man, I can't wait to look at your savings account.

[Like a Sir]

Garth Erlam, on 02 November 2012 - 04:23 PM, said:

Man, I can't wait to see your game

Hope this won't be the new PGI attitude, since the open beta hit.

[Mister Blastman]

Vlad Ward, on 02 November 2012 - 05:04 PM, said:

Garth isn't a business owner. He's the Community Manager.

And pretty much all of PGI's higher ups have been Battletech fans and players since the 80's.

As an employee of a company, you are the company to the customer. Be you a janitor, a clerk, a secretary, a executive or even the owner themself. You are all equally the company.

My post was quite clear when I said owner/operator. He's an operator of the company. He is the face of the company. When he says something that makes the company look bad--the whole company looks bad, not just him.

This was tought in all business school 101 classes. Was. I'm not sure if it still is.

[Bubba Wilkins]

Hopefully others will post their builds similarly. None of these is OP in the slightest.

[Dethl0k]

the 1.4 ratio is horrible it needs tuned to double where it should be

[Tempered]

Double heat sinks won't help my 4 large laser jenner I quit.

Seriously, I think you guys are expecting too much. If every build could just hold down the fire button endlessly, why even bother with heat sinks at all?

[Devils Advocate]

http://mwomercs.com/...dhs-and-14-dhs/

Yo could you put those here?

[MCXL]

Tempered, on 02 November 2012 - 05:13 PM, said:

If every build could just hold down the fire button endlessly, why even bother with heat sinks at all?

Its these kinds of comments that make my skin crawl, and me get... upset.

I don't think that anyone expects to just be able to pew pew all day long, however when you look at the balance between medium lasers sustained damage, versus other weapon types, it becomes pretty clear that in a typical firefight (300-200m) med lasers have the ability to hang in the battle MUCH longer than other weapon types. DHS would provide a small boost to pretty standard medium builds, but to other types of heat users, it would be a more substantial difference.

Ill be making a post outlining this and some broader heat things later tonight, if I have the time at work. (my job is pretty boring, I guard a satellite signal.)

[Vapor Trail]

MCXL, on 02 November 2012 - 05:18 PM, said:

(my job is pretty boring, I guard a satellite signal.)

Not the broadcast installation... just the signal?
Cake job.


Yeah people get all up in arms about the Med Laser getting OP because DHS (or even changes to the basic heat system) happen.

Yet even the Devs have missed the EASY solution. Decrease the max rate of fire on the smaller lasers. Just because they're smaller doesn't mean they have to fire as fast as the larger cousins.

Say you add a second to the cooldown of the Med Laser, for a 5 second duty cycle. Thats 5 damage in 5 seconds. That's a DPS of 1.0, vs a current DPS of 1.25. End result, instead of an 8 Med Las Hunchie dealing 40 damage every 4 seconds (10 DPS) you've got an 8 Med Las Hunchie dealing 40 damage every 5 seconds (8 DPS).

For comparison: Dual Gauss setups deal damage at 7.5 DPS.

Heat wise you'd require ~8 heat sinks per Med Laser instead of ~10.

Adding two seconds to the cooldown (fires every 6 seconds, might be a bit much) deals 6.67 DPS, and requires ~7 heat sinks per weapon (6.66 to be exact, standing still).

Edited by Vapor Trail, 02 November 2012 - 05:33 PM.

[Bubba Wilkins]

Here are my two current builds which are serviceable:


Build #1


Build #1a





Build 2:



Build 2a:


The primary builds here 1 & 2 work with heat currently, but could be much better if DHS worked properly. They would still be susceptable to overheating and a far from OP'd.

The "a" versions are not viable now and can only work if DHS worked properly. The second one needs some more work to pack a few more HS in there, but I lacked the millions in Cbills to drop the engine down to a 250ish to make room.

Edited by Bubba Wilkins, 02 November 2012 - 05:37 PM.

[Vassago Rain]

I know we don't see eye to eye on all matters, golds, but the quick counter-bite in here was much appreciated.

[The Herrick]

Garth Erlam, on 02 November 2012 - 04:23 PM, said:

Man, I can't wait to see your game

This, kids, is what we call career suicide.

Also I didn't realize community managers were playing an active role in game development. Although considering the state of things it would explain an awful lot.

[Tuhalu]

Not Happy Jan.

Most tier 2 weapons (ER PPCs, ER LLs, Gauss Rifles, all pulse lasers) are balanced around double heat sinks removing double the heat of single heat sinks.

The deal with double heat sinks is supposed to be a technology tradeoff. If you run Tier 1 weapons, you tend to run fairly cool. If you run Tier 2 weapons you will have to watch your heat (excepting Gauss Rifles which have their own problem), but you gain range or accuracy.

The balance is not supposed to be Run Tier 1 to not overheat too badly or Run Tier 2 and blaze like the sun.

If you are going to change how double heat sinks work, you are going to have to change the heat cost of half the weapons in the game to keep balance in current and future mechs. And by that I mean increase the heat on Gauss Rifles considerably and drop the heat on all the ER, Regular and Pulse Lasers and/or PPCs down to where they are nearly as cool as the medium variants.

Naturally, the simpler solution would be to put double heat sink capacity back to where it is supposed to be and accept that some mechs are meant to run cool!

[Caladan Nix]

Vassago Rain, on 02 November 2012 - 05:36 PM, said:

I know we don't see eye to eye on all matters, golds, but the quick counter-bite in here was much appreciated.

Just because I went Gold doesn't mean I'm a sycophant.

Unless I see some proof this is all a scam and not just Devs screwing up, I'll probably not even ask for a refund either. Hell, I spent more than this on the whole Mass Effect trilogy (Yes, I bought the LE's for one and 2, would have done the same for 3 if I had gotten the money soon enough).

But if they really don't pick up the pace on fixing things right? That Founding cash is ALL they're going to get from me.

Edited by Caladan Nix, 02 November 2012 - 05:45 PM.

[Sennin]

I had planned on building and testing a CN9-AL utilizing the following...

Engine: 250 Standard
Internal Structure: Endo-Steel
Armor: 10 Tons Standard
DOUBLE Heat Sinks: 17 (10:Engine + 7:External)

Weaponry: 2x ER Large Laser (RA), 2x Medium Laser (CT)

This build was intended to be an energy based mobile Sniper/Harasser. It would run hot just with it's main weaponry utilizing true DHS (2.0) but it would be able to manage. With the new 1.4 nerf, it's truley unplayable. Even if I downgraded to standard Large Lasers and utilized it as mid to close range brawler, the heat using the new DHS (1.4) will be more than it can handle. This change has made large energy weapons even further inferior.

If the goal was to penalize the Small/Medium laserboats currently overunning the game, one viable solution would be to raise their heat output by x1.5-2.0 and leave the large energy based weaponry alone. While it wouldn't prevent people from placing these weapons into a "boating" configuration but it would prevent them from endlessly firing while using the 2.0 DHS and discourage players from using this tactic.

[Hellcat420]

Vlad Ward, on 02 November 2012 - 05:04 PM, said:

Garth isn't a business owner. He's the Community Manager.

And pretty much all of PGI's higher ups have been Battletech fans and players since the 80's.

i find this hard to believe. seems more like they played mw4 with heat turned off for a couple weeks then decided they were experts.

[Vassago Rain]

Hellcat420, on 02 November 2012 - 05:44 PM, said:

i find this hard to believe. seems more like they played mw4 with heat turned off for a couple weeks then decided they were experts.

6 out of 5 PPCs for this post.

[TostitoBandito]

Any clan mech which comes with DHS stock and has lots of lasers. Good luck with that.

[FerretGR]

Bryan:

I posted about this build in an earlier thread, but it was pre-OB and so it seems the thread is lost.

Consider the 7ML Awesome AWS-8Q:

Because I can squeeze SHS into every nook and cranny of the mech, I can get 43 SHS on it, including engine HS (290XL, with AMS and a couple of tons of ammo in addition to the MLs).

Given the 3 critical slots of DHS, I can get 19 of them on the same build, including engine HS.

Under a 2.0 heat dissipation for DHS (ie. double, ahem), this build only achieves 38 equivalent heat sinks, a heat dissipation of 88% of its SHS counterpart. If the planned 1.4 heat dissipation is implemented, that only achieves a paltry 26.6 equivalent heat dissipation, barely more than half of its SHS counterpart.

Under a 2.0 DHS system, the mech is still viable. Sure, we lose a little heat efficiency, but it's at the high end of things anyhow, so we could perhaps make the argument that the loss isn't too significant, and that we're using DHS to free up tonnage for armor or crit space for upgrades, additional AMS ammo, whatever. Under the 1.4 DHS system, a viable DHS build is not available for this Awesome. I would imagine checking the math would reveal that all Awesome variants are the same: 1.4 DHS cannot be used to create a viable Awesome build.