769 replies to this topic

[G4M3R]

LRM is perfect the way it is. THis is a good balance.

[G4M3R]

In spite of all the people crying nerf. I'm going to call out that LRM balance is perfect right now. Please do not tweak this anymore.

Played about 6 hours with my clan yesterday and it is a nice balance of brawling, fire-support and good balance of gameplay. The game is currently very enjoyable.

I do miss the LRM shake though, I think it is needed to a certain degree. Other than that I feel that the LRM situation is currently in good balance with the rest of the game.

My 2 cents.

[PL Harpoon]

Justy Ueki Tylor, on 09 November 2012 - 04:49 AM, said:

as i told my missiles where hitting him ... i had free line of fire .... so no indirect attack ...... since im in an missile boat ..... i have no much option to get close combat ..... since i only have some small pulse lasers on my cat as emergency weapon

and what else you think i should do then spot my targets myself and then spam missiles and i saw em hitting him its not that he moved to take cover or so he was standing around spamming his own missiles

I'm not sure you understood what I said. Your weapons did some damage, you said that yourself. Perhaps there is a bug with counting damage after a match but that doesn't mean they're too nerfed. Don't trust the numbers too much.

[Justy Ueki Tylor]

G4M3R, on 09 November 2012 - 04:50 AM, said:

LRM is perfect the way it is. THis is a good balance.

so you say 1080 ... maybe lets say 950 hitting lrm should not kill an atlas ... not even strip of his armor ? if thats balances sorry then gaus and ppc need to be nerved by at least half of its dmg too since these are tho only weapons that kill instand if ya hit well ... i bet you guys would sream then too

anyway i dont want em to be back like they was that was extreme and way to much dmg ... but if i cant even scratch the enemy like i do now ..... because i dont deal dmg with 95% of my missiles ..... they are not even worth as support for me i want em back where they was in cbt not too much dmg but you can kill an enemy if he gets hit by 200 or 300 missiles not 1080 and no real dmg ( i bet this is something with the connection if you have 100+ or 120+ .. you wont get calculated right ) thats what i think so its not the dmg i speak of but the dmg calculation

[EmptySkull]

As a chronic founders cat user I think right now they are in a good spot.
Damage reduction was only 15%. And the flight path was the worst of it. And that is fixed.

But I do think before artemis the 2.0 damage was a perfect spot. It may be easy to use LRMs but it is hard to get/keep a lock. Espescially now with the MM the way it is. I can type to the pugs to help me out, but I mostly get a non response or worst smart aleck comments.

And I think after ecm is introduced they should buff the damage back to 2.0. ECM is going to make it even tougher to get/keep lock. Being that it is the direct counter for LRM's.

[Justy Ueki Tylor]

PL Harpoon, on 09 November 2012 - 04:55 AM, said:

I'm not sure you understood what I said. Your weapons did some damage, you said that yourself. Perhaps there is a bug with counting damage after a match but that doesn't mean they're too nerfed. Don't trust the numbers too much.

i understand exactly what you saied but you didnt get what i was telling .. i sayed yeah i did dmg .. but extreme low amount of ... after at least 950 of my missels directly hit this atlas .... he only has 2 parts with orange ARMOR not even structure and that is impossible he must have been killed by less then the halve of this

[Disbelief]

Tokra, on 09 November 2012 - 01:47 PM, said:

Quote

LRMs, as they are right now:


+ Easy to use, noob mode to fire (but need a bit more to hit and do damage).
+ Support on long range for your team without you having to run over to them (as Laser and Ballistic have to do).
+ Can be improved with Tag and Artemis (what other weapons can be improved with tech so far?).
+ Can even hit fast moving mechs without any skill.

- Are not king of the damage anymore (as they never should have been).
- Require a good scout who is not switching around the targets like mad.
- Still no weapon for no brainer (they no simple fire and dont think weapons)
- They have a min. range of 180m.

I find them good right now. With trial mechs you have the problem that you cant improve them. You are bound to the less ammo and cant add artemis. But as soon as you are your own mech, you can make a support LRM mech.
And this is perfectly the way i always thought they should be.

-Easy to waste your ammo (hills,buildings, losing missile lock)
-staying to far away from your team can get you killed too
-artemis is not only costly in the acquisition but you have to pay your ammo too (low damage = more rockets, more rockets = more cbills ;-)

[BorgT6]

I personally think after 3-4 hours of testing the hotfix that LRM's are pretty fine right now. Obstacles are working very well again and the damage is not that bad. My Jenner is still yellow everywhere and i have 1 or 2 red regions when im not careful enough and i get 1 Salvo of LRMs on me (with AMS equipped). I think that is pretty ok and brawler builds are playable again. My teammate is playing an LRM boat and before the patch he just owned everything with just 1 click of LRM on any enemy. Now he needs to get used to teamplay again and to use cover himself. Thats maybe hard for some players to experience but thats how team games work.

I'm not sure what the thread opener expects of the role of LRM's. Do you want to wtfpwn everything no matter what in 1 salvo leftclick and to make all other builds apart from LRM totally unplayable? Then the hotfix was very bad for you. Any other build expect from LRM boat is much harder to execute and you still want to get the most benefit out of it? I can't understand that.

[Karl Streiger]

Justy Ueki Tylor, on 09 November 2012 - 04:59 AM, said:

i understand exactly what you saied but you didnt get what i was telling ..

Please calm down.
Different players tell that missiles are fine. You are describing something that looks like a Bug / Exploit

When the Atlas have used AMS your damage would have been reduced. On the other side - i don't understand why the atlas didn't attack you. Even with reduced damage and AMS 2 heavy LRM are still a thread.

When the Atlas was close - flew your missiles directly or in a trajectory and hit the target from above?

[BorgT6]

Disbelief, on 09 November 2012 - 05:05 AM, said:

-Easy to waste your ammo (hills,buildings, losing missile lock)
-staying to far away from your team can get you killed too

these are no arguments because this applies to all ammo based weapons and all mechs. Just imagine you don't hit with your gauss how much tonnage / ammo is wasted because of the ammo per ton. The second argument is absolutely laughable....if you dont stay with your team you should always get killed easily. Some ppl are rly not familiar with team games..

[Wispsy]

Long Draw, on 08 November 2012 - 11:46 PM, said:

Btw, here is an example of what happens with the LRM changes. The guy who got the 4 kills was using streaks and medium lasers on an awesome. His buddies were in same build awesomes and medium laser hunchies.

I do more damage then you on my lrmraven 4x.....I mean sure you probably did not post your best game....but if that is your true average then you have been carried far too much by lrms and need to work on some basics

Edit: Some times I do get the feeling that my missiles hit and show they hit and do no damage. I am unsure if this is hit detection or missiles mostly explode on water or purely my imagination thinking I am doing more them I am....Either way though they seem to work alright most of the time it is not so often I experience this.

Edited by Wispsy, 09 November 2012 - 05:19 AM.

[Psocrates]

LRMs are fine now but i too have noticed the occasional atlas that seemed to take waaay more damage than it should and still keep running(6 shots of dual gauss to the core) maybe its the hit detection rearing its ugly head again?

[chewie]

LRMs are only *useless* in peoples eyes now because they now have to do something beyond sitting back and mashing down a button once someone else scores a target lock for em to use R on.

Man up people, get in and go face to face with your target for a change. Risk getting your mech shot out from beneath you or by hekate, your gonna find folks getting in close with you and doing that anyway not matter what you try and do. Why? because a lot of us, the moment we see multiple LRM contrails, the first thing we do once we've finished splatting your scout, is to come pay you a visit.

As a lot of people have said, LRM's are a SUPPORT WEAPON.

You wouldn't take nothing but missiles into a real battle, so why do we see so many mainly LRM based mechs..... The answer is because they have such a good hit ratio, such a good damage, decent ROF and not exactly ridiculous heat scaling for what they are. And its an easy option to get damage points with the odd kill or 3 in the mix.

First people complained because the Gauss was OP (no it isn't, its the same damage heat and all the rest as TT) but now that LRM's (which were double the damage of TT while retaining the same Heat and ROF as TT but are now 1.7) have been scaled back slightly so as to make folks actually work for their kills, they're not happy. Can't see why, because they are still one of the most effective weapons in game right now. Even with the tweaks.

MWO LRM-20, 34 dam, 6 heat.
TT LRM-20, 20 dam, 6 heat.
MWO Gauss, 15 dam, 1 heat
TT Gauss, 15 dam, 1 heat
MWO SRM 6, 15 dam 4 heat
TT SRM 6, 12 dam, 4 heat.
MWO AC20, 20 dam, 6 heat
TT AC20, 20 dam, 7 heat
MWO Large Laser, 9 dam, 7 heat
TT Large Laser, 8 dam, 8 heat
MWO PPC, 10 dam, 9 heat
TT PPC, 10 dam, 10 heat

Ohms weapons info (good post by that fella)
http://mwomercs.com/...s-excel-inside/
TT weapons guide on Sarna.
http://www.sarna.net...Equipment_Lists

LRM's are not useless, they are still OP. You just using them wrong still if they are your primary weapon, and your mech is not meant to be a LRM boat in its primary load out.

By all means use em as a support method for your front line mechs, your brawlers, and not to spam the enemy into submission while crying about how ineffective they are because you haven't managed a kill.



Its good to see some atlas's coming back with rounded load-outs once more rather than just LRMs with a couple of small pulse lasers for back up.

Oh and the splitting up to 4 man teams is a fantastic move to help reduce the amount of LRM mechs in game. The down side is you now don't see balanced or more effective teams (scouts, brawlers, support and harasser mechs), you just get 2 squads where the majority of mechs are assaults once more.
Played 6 or 7 matches last night with 5 or 6 mechs just atlas's the odd medium or scout mechs.

[Long Draw]

Like I said, one match just to test the hotfix. A normal game, before the hotfix and the patch giving us artemis, I could get anywhere from 1-7 kills depending on if I got the kill from chain firing my 3 missile pods. I would also get between 500-1300 damage in a match depending on the enemy team and the quality of spotters on my team.

[Ravager AI]

I'm going to stop readin this thread now and just point out what I've noticed.

Many agree with me that LRMs is a support weapon only and I feel that they are still a MAJOR factor on the battlefield. This is due to one thing, the ability to switch from one target 1000m to one side of you to another 1000m on the other side of you without moving an inch! This is a MASSIVE advantage! Many seem to either fail to notice this tidbit of information or they omit it for the sake of their own argument.

Now while I may be annoyed to sh** by LRM fire when I'm in the open, I still love the way they are presented now. They are not undogeable like before, I see less and less LRM boating in one match but they can still win you a game with a competent pilot.

Also, sorry if someone has stated this before, cudos to you good sir if that is the case.

[Justy Ueki Tylor]

ok first to borg .. seems like the thread openers expirience is nearly the same i have (reade above at page 6 )

@ karl .. they still flyed an trajectory hitting him frome above
then he didnt attacked me because i dint do dmg i think ... he focused on our 2 atlas and the k2 ( killed bothe of these .. then helped killing the dragoon that was attacking his scout after that he attacked me ( my missiles then where already empty )

atlas didnt had ams only large lasers and 3 15 lrm nothing more

i think the thing of this thread is that some have this problem i belive that may do still nice dmg with missiles ... i got killed yesterday by missiles realy fast but then there are players like me ... not the best connection artound 130-150 ms and it seems that we dont even scratch an enemy so i think thats basicly the reason why the op opend this thread ( like he saies ... 4 volleys only 1 yellow part and so on )

and as i told i think the bmg before hotwix was way to high ... so yeah im totaly for this nerve but not like i expierience the play with an lro boat now ( and since i play since 4 mont or so i know how it felt befor and that feeling was good ... but now i feel like im throwing paperballs at my enemy and that was not should be ... realy think it has something to do with the delay to the server ... like packet loss of 95% of the missiles

Edited by Justy Ueki Tylor, 09 November 2012 - 05:22 AM.

[Long Draw]

Chewie, grow a brain. Not everyone wants to be a brawler, which is why we chose to go LRM. And if you had half a clue about true LRM boating, you'd know that it takes a lot more skill than press R and click away.

[Kusak Snowtiger]

The biggest thing is that they fixed the trajectory issue. Im an LRM driver. And Ohhh it was fun. But it was rediculous. as an LRM gunner im a support unit. One or two of us max should be on the field on any given team. Not 6 of 8 mech packing nothing but LRM's. The damage feels about right. Not every missile should be hitting every salvo. AMS seems to be getting enough of them. Cover is taking their fair share. I think the actual missile damage of 2.0 was fine but im not going to complain about it being reduced.

Im actually back to a mech design I like. One LRM launcher and a mix of long range direct fire weapons both ballistic and energey. Its back to being a chess game of move cover to cover and keeping your big guns on target.

Thanks Dev's the game feels about right again. Not so frustrating.

Now could you light a fire under getting the rest of the group mod's done. Taking us a bit to get our lance level tactics down pact but the end result is those of us who play on teams are turning into vicious Lance level units able to take on all who come at us. I want to get to the team on team stuff. That is the true pot of gold at the end of the rainbow for us team folks.

[Disbelief]

BorgT6, on 09 November 2012 - 05:10 AM, said:

these are no arguments because this applies to all ammo based weapons and all mechs. Just imagine you don't hit with your gauss how much tonnage / ammo is wasted because of the ammo per ton. The second argument is absolutely laughable....if you dont stay with your team you should always get killed easily. Some ppl are rly not familiar with team games..

You are wrong. Saying using looked weapons is noob mode is wrong. You know there are still games where hitscan weapons are in the noob section. So should we all use ballistic weapons now? You have to watch closely where you draw that line because some ppl will always be on on and others on the second side.

You have to watch the terrain all the time or your missiles will just hit the ground. If you fire on the wrong target you just might lose your lock.

Other ballistic weapons are directly attached to your aiming skill. But here you can have a greater influence in the accuracy. To remind you: Missiles dont hit the head all the time(after the patch ;-) ). Ballistic weapons can.

This:

Quote

-staying to far away from your team can get you killed too

was an answer to this:

Quote

+ Support on long range for your team without you having to run over to them (as Laser and Ballistic have to do).

Both are no arguments. They are facts.

[Tokra]

Disbelief, on 09 November 2012 - 05:05 AM, said:

Tokra, on 09 November 2012 - 01:47 PM, said:



-Easy to waste your ammo (hills,buildings, losing missile lock)
-staying to far away from your team can get you killed too
-artemis is not only costly in the acquisition but you have to pay your ammo too (low damage = more rockets, more rockets = more cbills ;-)

First part was catched with: no weapon for no brainers.
If i fire my laser in the hill i cant damage the person behind it as well. But this does not mean the laser work wrong, it mean i am to stupid.

Being to far away from the team is not the fault of the LRMs. Its the fault of you.

And the higher cost of the Artemis missiles is, as i said, a bit to high as well. But still, if you dont want repair cost, take lasers. You pay for the high damage with relativ low heat with the ammo.