769 replies to this topic

[Hidirian]

Yeah, a Yen Low Wang and a Cicada, I couldn't hurt either of them even though I had direct hits so it can't be a mech specific thing.

[chewie]

Arisaema, on 09 November 2012 - 07:29 AM, said:

Played a number of games with 3 LRM boats and a scout. With each having at least 1000 missiles to launch, collectively we were unable to down mechs. As well, I went bingo on ammo multiple times. This is with a scout who knows his job very well and is able to keep lock on a mech. PGI did something wrong here and really nerfed LRM's into oblivion.

No, you were lazy.

You just wanted to sit back and lob LRMs all game, and win that way, because when it was 8 man teams, you could do that all game long. And that's what you did do back then.

It'd be like everyone except for 1-2 tanks in WoT taking artillery and relying on 2 T-50-2's for spotting.

What is the point of that? Makes for a very boring game.

You ran dry of ammo you say, then take better non ammo weapons too, and change your game style.

No offence, but It's not PGI's fault for how you play the game is right now using what's available to you, its yours man. Your limiting yourself.

Plus your scout, if as good as you say, would be carving them up with his own weapons as you rained LRM's on your target, so that should have helped you kill with LRMs making good on damage from the scout.

You say you all had 1k of ammo each roughly. But what were the launchers?

[Adeptis]

Blood Skar, on 08 November 2012 - 12:21 PM, said:

They are in no way underpowered now - they are still a little overpowered damage wise...but i can live with it as it is - the trajectory fix was very welcome, thank you PGI for that.

How do you think they are underpowered? I am spotting for my team and i see salvo after salvo still ripping through Mechs - i saw a hunchback go down in literally about 10 seconds.

I think they are just right now.

Scouts can duck behind cover IF they respond to the 'Incoming Missle' message and are near enough cover.
Damage still seems high.

I think LRM just hit the sweetspot. IMO anyway..anyone agree ?

LRM balance is quite optimal. Might be the most perfect fix yet. Bravo, PGI.

OP, find something else to smoke. You craycray.

[Kirkland Langue]

As I said in closed Beta:

If LRMs are UP, buff them. If LRMs are OP, buff AMS. If LRMs are nerfed, then AMS is also nerfed.

[AvatarofWhat]

LRM's are damn near useless except against light mechs now. It takes over 600 missiles to kill an atlas(over half of my ammo) with the atlas standing in the open not even moving at all. There is no real need to take cover at all in heavy or assault mechs, you can just stand there and take it for quite a while. What this means is if the enemy is skilled at all they will take cover for a good portion of your missiles and the miniscule damage you deal when they are in the open does not matter. The only reason I can still do a decent ammount of damage with them is because I fire my entire ammo load on mechs that dont even care to take cover anymore. I think 400 missiles to the face should be enough to take out an atlas, not 600. Please fix the damage again. With the new firing arc and larger artemis spread it is easy to avoid much damage from LRM boats as you close the distance. there are plenty of ways to deal with LRMS without needing a damage nerf. As it is they are pretty much useless.

I never had any real problem dealing with LRM's in the past... now I just dont care at all.I'll charge my short range centurion straight to the enemy without taking cover from 600 meters and take several rounds of LRM's and still be in good enough shape to overwhelm the boat in short range. You should at least be forced to play around the enemy's weapons a bit I think.

[Ixis]

I have to take my hat off to PGI for the hotfix yesterday,you guys got it more or less spot on.Don't listen to the whining LRM boaters who don't like the idea of being able to smash any other mech in the match from 1000m before anyone can get close enough to use their own weapons or even find cover.Its actually fun to play matches now,you have to take note and be wary of LRM boats still but at least now you don't have the sinking feeling of seeing 120 missiles arching towards you and knowing you're going to die before you can even get a shot off

[Varrin Coursca]

Long Draw, on 09 November 2012 - 05:19 AM, said:

Chewie, grow a brain. Not everyone wants to be a brawler, which is why we chose to go LRM. And if you had half a clue about true LRM boating, you'd know that it takes a lot more skill than press R and click away.

This was unnecessary.

I'd be interested to hear your argument as to how LRM-boating matches up comparatively skill-wise to brawling or scouting.

[EmptySkull]

chewie, on 09 November 2012 - 06:59 AM, said:

In that case, double up on all other weapons other than missiles.
Make AC20 do 40 damage, the gauss to do 30 damage.......because they are actually understrength in game right now, by 50%

Its not about making it TT, its about getting the balance right. LRM's were (and still are) OP because you were seeing so many of them. All the time, 3 to 4 mech's lobbing up to 30+ LRM's each. Whether it was as 6 LRM5's being chain fired for a continuous stream, or 3 LRM15's being chained.

They doubled the armour because people would die real quick with TT values for weapons and armour. And that made for very short games. But hey, in TT, someone rolls lucky with his Gauss, gets a crit hit on the pilot, mech effectively dead. Without ripping away all his armour first.....thats the way it was designed to happen.

So armour got buffed.

They then realised that LRMs, because they don't all hit the same target, weren't strong enough, so they doubled up too. and the same for SRM's of any type.

Now lasers and AC's were doing just fine, so no need to buff them. They hit hard where they hit every time. So no need to do anything to them. The double armour with those stock TT values for weapons made you last longer in battle. Good for everyone......almost.

Then people realised just how effective the double damage rate LRM's and (more than double) SRM's were, so they started getting as many on as they could, without compromising their mechs armour or speed (well, not too much).

But, as they tweaked the coding to make more of them hit (even when running), they realised that the LRM's were now making it stupidly easy to deal massive amounts of damage, with little need for input from the player using them. And TAG, NARC and Artemis made that even worse (or better from the perspective of the guy launching the salvo)
So they reduced the damage a little bit. And .3 is a little bit in the scheme of things.

Someone commented on how little his Jenner is being hit by LRM's and how little damage he's taking.

That's not because the LRM's are underpowered (speed wise), its because they move too slow. Way too slow. Especially if your moving perpendicularly to the direction they are coming from, you can keep ahead of some of them. Not all, but some.

You used to see it all the time. A Jenner doing 140kph+, out running LRM's because they are so slow when moving across the battlefield. Even HBK's did it for a while. So they tweaked engines to get round that particular exploit/bug.
And everyone suffered in a way then. No more 360xl + engined Atlas's storming the tunnel on frozen city like a bunch of Cats/HBK's because they were faster than most would expect em to be.
Shame that, used to love doing that. Nearly always took people by surprise with 4 x 65kph Atlas's in yer base before you knew it.

So now the LRM's are almost perfect for damage, but they just need to make them move faster to get over people out running them. Then we'll hear people scream because the LRM's are OP again (but that will be those on the receiving end of em instead of those firing them)

Cost wise, well, if you want to use em, expect a big bill when your done with the match.

GJ PGI, keep at it.

Thanks for the quote but I didn't bring up TT. I was "just saying" to the person that was like , well what if missle only did 1.0 damage like in TT. I just pointed out what you and I already knew.

As for all the other weapons you can't compare direct fire weapons that a pilot can point and click shoot and deliver their damage within seconds.

LRMs have to have an aquired target, lock hold, fire missles, maintain that lock, fly across the map then connect with the target. There are a lot of things that keep all the missles from hitting, unless they are standing still. That is why they where brought to 2.0 in the first place.

Like I said they were OP after 6th patch, I agree. They have been 2.0 for what 6 weeks now? I don't agree with you on your framing of the damage nerf. They nerfed the damage because with artemis fewer missles missed. So more damage. Without artemis 2.0 was very good.

I think they were more OP due to broken flight path than damage rate. You could still avoid being hit. I know I could. I know many pilots in my unit that could. But because of the flight path they where controlling the metagame and needed fixing. Nerf the damage a bit is fine. But now non artemis missle is underpowered.

I do agree they fly way too slow.

I only hope that after ecm is implemented they will reevaluate the damage done. I think it should go back to 2 with the hotfix spead kept. And of course the better flight path.

[Name60014]

I like the minor nerf to LRM damage but LRMs fired at targets out of LoS without TAG or NARC on target should be inaccurate. Period. I wouldn't be too bothered by LRM damaged being upped back to 2 if indirect fire was less accurate. SRMs spread wildly at 50m and greater.

TL;DR LRMs should do 2 damage and should be inaccurate without direct LoS from the firing unit unless NARC or TAG is on the target.

[Justy Ueki Tylor]

Thontor, on 09 November 2012 - 08:09 AM, said:

Yes, I don't think the damage per missile is the issue some people are having... With 2.0 per missile that would be about 482 damage... Not much better...

Something else is going on besides damage per missile for these people reporting low damage.

thx ypur the first who might actuall got it the sight some of us see it XD btw did another match where i couldnt even scratch an jenner who STAND behind an atlas and was downing him ... impact yeah ... flickering aswelll so i did hits .. after around 4x15 missiles he run awway with 99% remaining hp ( and yeah clear line of fire since i was on an hill )

also i was attackd from 3 missile boats dealing me no dmg with the missiles so i think there is realy some work in this that need to be done XD

[AvatarofWhat]

chewie, on 09 November 2012 - 07:41 AM, said:

No, you were lazy.

You just wanted to sit back and lob LRMs all game, and win that way, because when it was 8 man teams, you could do that all game long. And that's what you did do back then.

It'd be like everyone except for 1-2 tanks in WoT taking artillery and relying on 2 T-50-2's for spotting.

What is the point of that? Makes for a very boring game.

You ran dry of ammo you say, then take better non ammo weapons too, and change your game style.

No offence, but It's not PGI's fault for how you play the game is right now using what's available to you, its yours man. Your limiting yourself.

Plus your scout, if as good as you say, would be carving them up with his own weapons as you rained LRM's on your target, so that should have helped you kill with LRMs making good on damage from the scout.

You say you all had 1k of ammo each roughly. But what were the launchers?

Lrm's are easy to fire but they are also easy to dodge, especially with the new incoming missile warning. As it stands right now LRM boats dont need to be respected at all except for light mechs. I can charge my centurion straight across the open from 600 meters take several volleys from an LRM boat and then decimate that boat. I don't even need to take cover as I close the distance. Sure it does not take much skill to fire LRMS but that thats why skilled players can take cover and close range with it and make it useless. The new firing arc and larger artemis spread are enough, there was no need for a damage nerf as well. The challenge in piloting a missile boat is constantly maneuvering to be in the best position possible. If you just sit there and point an click your going to die. As it stands now though there is almost no reason to use LRMs at all. Why would you take a "support" weapon that does almost no damage and comes with a crippling short range disadvantage if no one is even forced to change their tactics to deal with you?

Most people here just don't seem to want to play around LRMs even a little bit. I would say that's more lazy then equipping them. If every single weapon slot you have is dedicated to one type of weapon and you are constantly hitting the enemy with it then you should do a good amount of damage. I never had a real problem dealing with LRM boats pre-patch, it already has plenty of limitations. The change to the firing arc and artemis spread was necessary but the damage nerf makes it so there is no reason to ever take them anymore.

[SmithMPBT]

LRM's are fixed, lets get back to brawling!

[Suskis]

There are mechs that are built for a clear role, not to be multipurpose. If I want to play as indirect fire support alone, I want to be able to do it succesfully. I played as a tank in WOW and I did not expect to deal damage nor to survive in PVP. This is making choices. Add the enormous price in C-bills you have to pay to customize your mech (4LRM20 are 2 damn MILLIONS, double heat sinks are another 1,5 million and Artemis another 1,something million) and you know if you make your choice you must work hard for it.
I never said LRMs were ok. They were overpowered for sure. I ended more than once scoring 5 kills or being 1st in the match.
The problem, however, is in the way they nerfed LRMs. If I shoot 80 missiles onto a light mech, I expect either I miss it completely or I deal some serious damage. What we have now is that we hit and deal pathetic damage.

[AvatarofWhat]

Thontor, on 09 November 2012 - 08:23 AM, said:

The damage nerf doesn't explain the results people are seeing. 15% less damage isn't that much and should still be nearly as devastating to get hit by as 2.0 was. Something else is making LRMs less effective..

Fair enough, but my point still stands, they have nerfed LRMs into useless territory.

[Bad Andy]

Quote

add craploads of ammo and after one match you will automatically get 75% ammo free.

so basically missile support mechs need to pay a 2-3 ton reloading tax or not ever make money? no thanks.

[Rumrunner2]

600 missiles to kill an Atlas is exactly how it should be.

600 missiles with 1,7 damage each is 1020 damage sendet. 75% hits makes about 750 real damage.
Atlas has about 600 points armor, about 400 points internal structure, and about 150 hitpoints in installed equipment.
To kill an Atlas u have not only to eliminate his armor, but his internal structure or his engine too.

Because LRMs are spreading there damage all over the mech and dont penetrate a single area the 600 LRMs to kill an Atlas is correct.

After all, the hotfix gave much more fun to the game. LRM spammer times are over .
Now each element in the game, included agility, makes sence.

[B0NES]

Artemis appeared usless to me before the hotfix. On tuesday when artemis was introduced and missles were buffed i was doing consistanly 1200 damage per game without artemis. Once i had saved enough to install artemis my damage peaked at 800. It was a total waste of c-bills. going to make some damage averages post hotfix and see if i get an increase in dmg output if i remove artemis.

[warp103]

LOL This is funny. The guys that wanted the lrm nerf win. I have his light mech shut down. Thinking i got a pigion with my cat c4 2x20lrs+Artemis fired 80 missiles.I look and their percent goes down 5% at 800m .think WTF. Fire again with him coming at me still locked another 80 missiles. His percent down to just 92 .WTF x2 and this is with a elite mech{pin point and fast fire tree. 160 missile fired just 8 percent damage. So if i have Artemis ,pinpoint,fast fire all that suppose to help you damage more yet getting less that pre hot-fix with none of these what is the point.

Pre patch 2xlrm20 vs post patch 2xlrm20 Artemis,pinpoint,fast fire. Prepatch wins I lose cb and crap XP.

So even with all the xp and computers you still get less then 1.0 damage. I think they do not have a clue just like the no damage xp bug the hotfix number 1.


There has to be a bug 2 hotfixes for LRM{and other stuff} update and it still not right.

Edited by warp103, 09 November 2012 - 09:16 AM.

[Macheiron]

Sarna.net said:

...the firing unit must have line of sight to its target, indirectly fired LRMs receives no increase in accuracy.

http://www.sarna.net.../Artemis_IV_FCS

Artemis is not intended to be IDF, but instead allow a 'Mech using LRMs to become a mid-range combatant.

[RragnarR40k]

/agree, it seems that lrm are just like they should be at the moment. It would be nice with the shake back though.

Oh and well, lower the cost of lrm ammo refit - especially with artemis. It's kinda rediculously high...