769 replies to this topic

[Sedit]

VagGR, on 11 November 2012 - 02:44 PM, said:

lrms are still able to kill like every other weapon...small lasers are able to kill..MGs are able to kill...all weapons are able to kill...but every weapon has its role, its spacial use..its cons and and pros...maybe its not people sucking or fearing lrms..maybe its you who would like to just camp behind click your mouse and get kills without even trying...think about that..

i have several brawlers and do much much more damage than any LRM boat could do with artremis and a tag. LRM need a boost to keep them played. All i am hearing is i like lrm's that do not damage me, pls oh pls don't allow them to hurt me again.

[twibs]

I run C1 with, not dedicated but heavily-inclined towards LRM. 2xLRM15+Artemis and I use 4 mediums too for close and personal work, so it looks like a trial mech, only that it's with 4 times the ammo, DHS and endo steel.

I can dish out 400-500 damage per good match, but then again that's quite spread out. Do I feel underpowered? Not really. I'm support mech that strip armour all around so the brawlers can do their work.

Should LRMs be buffed? I'm not sure, depends how the ECM will play out. One thing that I know is that LRM boating is nice change of pace to the normal close/mid range brawling my other mechs do.

[Roadbuster]

Taken from Sarna.

Quote

The Artemis IV Fire Control System is a guidance system that utilizes an infrared laser designator and tight-beam microwave transmitter which improves the accuracy of LRMs, SRMs, and MMLs by roughly thirty-five percent. The Artemis IV FCS must be mounted in the same location as the launcher it controls, taking up space and weight on a BattleMech like other components.In order to actually take the benefit of Artemis IV, the missiles fired must be Artemis compatible, which are more expensive than standard versions, and the firing unit must have line of sight to its target, indirectly fired LRM receives no increase in accuracy.

I don't know if they implemented that line of sight restriction as I usually fire my LRMs only at targets out of cover and in my line of sight.
I agree that LRMs were good before Artemis implementation. Now, even with Artemis and TAG the damage is much lower.
But it seems to me like it was lowered some time after the hotfix, because right after last weeks hotfix the damage was about the same as before Artemis implementation.

I've tested the damage a bit more yesterday. I'm running a Catapult-C1 with 2x LRM15+Artemis (1080 missiles), 2x MPL, TAG and AMS.
I always try to shoot at targets without cover and use my TAG. So let's say 30% of my missiles miss the target.
My best result were ~650dmg with all 1080 missiles and heavy use of my MPL. I'll be optimistic and say 500 damage were done with missiles. 1080 missiles with a 30% miss rate would be 1285dmg with 1,7dmg/missile. Even with 1,0dmg/missile for 756dmg, that would only be 66% of the damage I should've dealt. And that is an optimistic calculation.

That comes close to the 0,7 dmg per missile and is FAR from the 1,7 dmg per missile it should be.
And that is with Artemis and TAG (~70% of all salvos with TAG) and 90% of all salvos fired on targets without cover at ranges from 250m-600m.

Flightpath of the missiles is fine now.
Buildings and other cover often let missiles fly through -> needs correction.
Artemis effect? Can't controll that.
TAG works fine.
Damage per missile -> needs to be looked into, seems to be about half of what it officially should be (1,7/missile) 1,0 dmg/missile would be ok

Edited by Roadbuster, 12 November 2012 - 01:38 AM.

[Long Draw]

Yeah, still waiting for at the very least a developer response either here in this thread or in the developer's personal forum (command chair, ask the devs, etc.).

[FumingGorilla]

Good job nerfing all the missles.Now there are packs of knee biting lights everywhere.This is why i didn't want to spend money on a beta,You have changed the game completely from what i purchased.

Edited by FumingGorilla, 12 November 2012 - 05:42 AM.

[Mongoose Trueborn]

Blufocus, on 11 November 2012 - 11:17 AM, said:

Seems to me that a lot of people are calling the LRM's a "support" weapon or "suppression" weapon, and their drivers have no skill. Make whatever claims you wish to make about the drivers but consider a few things. An LRM boat driver is truly at the mercy of a light or medium that breaks through the line. Also, to truly be effective, they need either good scouts with TAG or Artemis w/ LOS. No it does not take much skill to point and fire, but that drivers game is dependent highly on his/her TEAM. (And while I am on the topic...WTF!!! Can PUGers not figure out where the TS info is at so they can make friends and work as a TEAM??? No one chassis can stand alone in this game, no matter the configuration. This is a teamwork based game...if you have an issue with that, go back to WoW)

As for the hot patch itself, and the LRM "rebalance/nerf". Those of you saying it is fine now seriously need to stop and think about this. I have fired LRMs after the hot patch, and now they can BARELY catch a light moving at speed, if at all. As we all know a jenner with a 300xl engine will do approx 140 kph, so can someone tell me what MISSILE flies that slow??? Yes, the 90 degree top down head shots were OP, and it was a fun few days. But to go from one extreme to the other is ridiculous. As for the grouping/flight path/per missile damage...Yes, the OP top down head shots needed to be corrected and the per missile damage needed to be fixed, but 60% hit ratio??? They are MISSILES, not rockets...They are GUIDED! You can not tell me that the people in this universe can make a 100 ton robot walk, but they can not figure out how to guide a missile on target.

As for all the crying I have read about LRM's...its a game people. And yes, even in real life, when artillery has your number, your ticket IS going to get punched. So for all of you out there in your Atlas', do understand that a 45 missiles volley X5 is all it should take to take you out of the game. Do the math...it is not the fault of the boat drivers because you can not figure out how to deal with it. Besides, it seems to me no one has figured out how to "counter-battery" yet. Remember, if you are in the enemy's range of fire, then he/she is in yours.

The best LRM boat is an atlas with it's own tag. LEARN TO PLAY

The reason why LRMS got the nerf bat was because those that do understand how to play a video game started using them and a WTFBBQ party broke out. I remember my clan running them heavy and it was too easy to play without having to think and just crush everyone. It was a joke.

Why don't you try driving a mech that can defend itself against a light instead of crying a river every time one gets on top of you? The moment that happens the lights will leave you alone because they are looking for the noobs running nothing but LRMS.

[Greyfyl]

Mongoose Trueborn, on 12 November 2012 - 09:27 AM, said:

The best LRM boat is an atlas with it's own tag. LEARN TO PLAY

The reason why LRMS got the nerf bat was because those that do understand how to play a video game started using them and a WTFBBQ party broke out. I remember my clan running them heavy and it was too easy to play without having to think and just crush everyone. It was a joke.

Ahhh... the old "LEARN TO PLAY" gets thrown into the mix. Coming from someone running atlas premades vs new players in trial mechs more than likely. You are pro sir, you are pro.

[Mongoose Trueborn]

Greyfyl, on 12 November 2012 - 09:44 AM, said:

Ahhh... the old "LEARN TO PLAY" gets thrown into the mix. Coming from someone running atlas premades vs new players in trial mechs more than likely. You are pro sir, you are pro.

You are correct sir, I am pro. So are the rest of the people I play with. You must have fought us before. Next time bite the pillow, i hear it helps.

[Kilgore]

Let me be the next to say it...

LRMs have been nerfed a little too much. They're just bad enough to not really be worth it anymore. I have played Cat C1's w/ 2 racks of 15s, Atlas DDC's with 3 racks of 15ths and 2 racks of 15s w/ Artemis, and I can tell you that they don't carry their weight anymore in my groups. I do more for my team when I run direct fire weapons. Jenners can literally close 1,000 meters on me while I rain LRMs on them and they' get to me before I can kill them. In my book, that makes LRMs too weak when you can't stop or deter a charging mech in the open field.

[TigrisMorte]

I think there is more going on than the nerf. When a shut down already badly damaged medium can take 12 LRM15s and still not have anything bad happen, there is something very very wrong.
Perhaps in the effort to keep some use from Artemis the direct line of sight non Artemis have a very low accuracy that is not reflected in the visuals, perhaps there is a "bug" that under certain circumstances causes LRMs to do no damage.

I have seen it in action personally, either no damage or so little so spread that it was unnoticeable, with my mech shut down.

[warp103]

ok here is the next video
test conditions afk mech
7 salvos lrm15 with Artemis so 105missile
damage went from 98 to 93 that just sad.

That is my 3rd video{check the forums} but tested 30 times{all afk or shutdown mechs}
same results .7 damage (actual damage is .0476% per missile with ams)
but the afk had ams so it shot down missiles and
taking in to account miss.That means that from 2.0 down
to a charity case 0.7{that optium}. That is a almost 66% nerf bat.
So to all the guys saying LRM is ok. Lets have them do that
too all the weapon. See if you like the CB you spent or the time wasted
VIDEO AND NUMBER DO NOT LIE{ if my math is right}

Edited by warp103, 12 November 2012 - 12:52 PM.

[Zerikin]

I don't know what they did but missiles just are not doing hardly any damage. They said is 15% less damage but its clearly doing far less than that. They were too strong before the patch, stupid after the patch, and post hot fix they switched the explosives to nerf balls.

[AntharPrime]

Firing LRMs from my Atlas, I noticed that even with a lock sometimes the last volley that rockets out of the laucher will take off at a right angle immediately from the mech instead of tracking to the target or hitting where your crosshairs were aiming if you lost a lock.

Anyone else notice this?

Edited by AntharPrime, 12 November 2012 - 03:15 PM.

[Greyfyl]

Mongoose Trueborn, on 12 November 2012 - 09:59 AM, said:

You are correct sir, I am pro. So are the rest of the people I play with. You must have fought us before. Next time bite the pillow, i hear it helps.

Taking so much pride at being good at MWO and sexual inuendo.....classy.

Do you put 'being pro at MWO' on your resume? Oh wait, this is the internets....you probably own China or something.

Every game forum I have ever been on has that one person that no matter how bad something is in that game, he is convinced that everyone else just sucks and he is 'pro'. Gotta love the internet.

[Dimento Graven]

WarMonkey14, on 08 November 2012 - 09:17 PM, said:

guys, 20% (or whatever you guys are arguing it is) accuracy is fine. on a SUPPORT weapon. it's supposed to be a barrage, not a focused shot. the lock is just so the missiles know to hit that general area on the map.

repeat after me:
LRMs are a SUPPORT weapon
LRMs are a SUPPORT weapon
LRMs are a SUPPORT weapon
LRMs are a SUPPORT weapon

continue

And you're an ***** for repeating something that's so wrong.

Just because you say it over and over like a religious mantra, won't ever make it right.

In a 'mech that has other weapons, PPC's, lasers, gauss, whatever, it might be relagated to "secondary" status. However, "support" is a syntactical error in the extreme.

The CLOSEST we could get to what you're saying, if you want to play the symantics game, is that they are the PRIMARY weapon of a SUPPORT 'mech. And in that sense, the SUPPORT 'mech does his role by softening up, and even killing, enemies as they close in on your team's position.

But neither "support", nor "secondary" makes these weapons "second class", as you're trying to do.

You don't like them? Continue with your twin gauss or twin PPC and aimbot and grin and bare it.

[CrayTrashfire]

1800 rounds from twin artemis 20's 350 average dmg 0 kills always.... op... i think they are over nerfed

[Dimento Graven]

SicksGunz, on 12 November 2012 - 02:09 PM, said:

Last night I did a lot of missile boating and I would still often top the charts for both damage and kills. Granted, its 2 or 3 kills and 500 damage and not 4 and 1000 like when open beta first came out, but you also have to figure many more mechs have AMS now than during the first days of open beta.

Also, I LOLd at the video. Obviously the AMS is shooting down half your missiles.

I think they're fine. I wouldn't say no to 1.8 damage, and we'll have to see what effect ECM has. However most of the complaining seems to be from people who want to just stand in the back like a line of redcoats and blast all comers to smithereens. That was no fun, and not the way the game should work.

You can't just be firing LRMs to get that.

My CAT carries 1080 LRM rounds and if I ONLY fire my LRMs, I'll always end the round with 200 damage.

My CAT also carries about 400 SSRMs, so my damage output when I use both increases to about an average of 400.

Again, you people have to be getting some absolutely fantastically lucky draws from the match maker. Either half the enemies are cocker spaniels, or the majority are being DC'd or AFK.

Fire missles at people, they'll move because the missles annoy them, makes the screen blurry, and it gets hard to aim at their target...

[Dimento Graven]

SicksGunz, on 12 November 2012 - 04:19 PM, said:

Right. I'm just lucky. That's a great point.

Well there's certainly a horrendously huge discrepency between your experience and mine.

Even if I were to load up an extra 400 missles to match your load, the numbers indicate I'd get what? 250 damage in a match at the rate I've seen.

No one is just sitting there letting me dump round after round of LRM's in them.

If I am actually doing some effective damage with LRM's, I've never NOT had to deal with enemy scouts/harrassers.

The only way I can see myself getting your numbers is if there were corpses, or at best passed out drunks piloting the enemy.

[Long Draw]

Start to finish recorded video from today of LRM effectiveness (Including Artemis).

http://www.falconcom...Vid/LRMtest.wmv

[Dimento Graven]

With Artemis, you shot 1230 missles, hit 7 different 'mechs hard enough to register assists, and only did 393 damage, zero kills.

Since the quick fix, I've not bothered installing Artemis, and I'm glad.

Artemis seems to have not done much.

AGAIN, to put it even more simply:
You're in a D-DC Atlas, LRM15'sx3, with Artemis, and you got 393 damage, no kills after firing 1650 missles.
I'm in a A1 Catapult, LRM15'sx2, without Artemis, and I regularly get in 200's firing the better part of 1000 missles.

Yeah, LRMs sure seem to be "working as intended"... Crimany, they're not performing well enough to be worth the reload costs since DAMAGE is a factor of your cash reward at the end of battle, in your case 3,930 extra CBILLs. At least spotting and assist bonuses help a bit towards that but still...

I'm betting your reload/repair bill after that was on the order of 200k+...

That's rough, that's damn rough...