130 replies to this topic

[PanzerMagier]

Light scouts or mechs that go 100+kph, are Currently the strongest mech type (statistically) in the game because the devs are too sloppy to fix bugs that should have been fixed long ago.

1. Unit collision is still off, cant knock them over

2. unit damage collision is off, cant ram them

3. The introduction of ferro armour and endo steel improved medium to light mechs ONLY, they are hardly worth anything on a heavy - assault mech

4. Double heatsinks now with 1.4 dissipation gives increased heat dissipation to lighter mechs (who carry less of them) than to heavier mechs that have LESS dissipation when comparing pre and post patch double heatsinks

5. There is still A LOT of netcode to be trimmed up around fast mechs, my lasers physically hit the mech, I see the sparks fly and yet my reticule do not flash red.

Why I am struggling to kill scouts with mediums/assaultmechs now? I used to easily blast them to bits without a second thought... Now, however...

I'll leave it at that, I think I've said enough to express my opinion.

Edited by PanzerMagier, 10 November 2012 - 06:59 AM.

[Wispsy]

You are having problems now as you got used to having 10 seconds to line up your single kill shot on a stood still mech that could not move for extended periods and if you might miss or had a friend around you just had to stand on top of it to give you as many chances as you desired?

Now I am all for bringing in some decent collisions but most of your issues seem to come from your inability to shoot a target on the move, or in the cases of laggier mechs you cannot increase the lead on your target by judging from single sweeping shots where their lag shield ends (as you can see their armour take damage even though your screen shows the mech 0.2 of a second behind it...

Edit: I have to agree with you on the first point though, that light mechs are the strongest in the game. I came to the same conclusion on my 2nd day of playing (back with collisions and totally fine netcode and really fast hunchbacks) and have specialized in Jenner ever since! If you can predict your enemy the speed to do something about it is always your best advantage

Edited by Wispsy, 10 November 2012 - 07:12 AM.

[Aquilus]

2. Is blatantly false. Colliding with other mechs at high speed causes damage.
As is 3. ES is useful on mechs in a variety of weight classes, and FF is pointless on pretty much every build due to excessive repair costs.

If lights were easy kills for all other mechs, why would anyone play them?

Edited by Aquilus, 10 November 2012 - 07:09 AM.

[AlexEss]

Well life as a scout is not exactly peaches and rosewater either. Do your job well and you will at best be getting out with half your mech still in place if the other team knew what they are doing. Do your job badly and you will be the first smoking ruin on the field.

But i can tell you that a well co-ordinated team can deal fairly easy with a light mech, especially if the pilot over extends his reach.

And the collision is coming back. also i can tell you for a fact that running in to things hurts as a light i have had both armes and legs half torn off by being rammed by larger mechs.. But i guess if you relied on the knockdown effect to take out lights before it is a lot harder to kill them now.

[Kon19]

I only agree that the code needs to be fixed. One should not have to base his lead on a target on how much lag there may or may not be. It is important to keep light mechs viable in the game, but it should be within the intended framework, not because of a code advantage.

I don't think it's fare to call the Devs "sloppy".

[AlexEss]

And i take it Kon that you are a veteran game developer with a recent release under your belt to be so confident as to be able to call them that...?

If so do enlighten us to what that release is.

[krash27]

Wispsy, on 10 November 2012 - 07:08 AM, said:

You are having problems now as you got used to having 10 seconds to line up your single kill shot on a stood still mech that could not move for extended periods and if you might miss or had a friend around you just had to stand on top of it to give you as many chances as you desired?

Now I am all for bringing in some decent collisions but most of your issues seem to come from your inability to shoot a target on the move, or in the cases of laggier mechs you cannot increase the lead on your target by judging from single sweeping shots where their lag shield ends (as you can see their armour take damage even though your screen shows the mech 0.2 of a second behind it...

Edit: I have to agree with you on the first point though, that light mechs are the strongest in the game. I came to the same conclusion on my 2nd day of playing (back with collisions and totally fine netcode and really fast hunchbacks) and have specialized in Jenner ever since! If you can predict your enemy the speed to do something about it is always your best advantage

We should not have to lag shoot like MW3.

[Khan Warlock Kell]

People dont want light s to be easy kills, what they do want however is Lights to fill the battlefield role they are supposed to have. Lights = scouting and recon mechs not Little assault mechs which is where they currently sit. Lights will soon have ECM and BAP allowing them to fill the battlefield role they are supposed to have. A scout uses its speed and manouverability to avoid engaging heavier mechs. A Commando hit in the leg by 2 large lasers should have the leg almost destroyed. But right now because of armour doubling, and lag shield combined with hit detection issues. Right now your lucky if it barely damages it.

I love lights, i love piloting my jenner doing almost 150 KPH but right now i feel nearly immortal. With no collisions of any kind no fear of being knocked over. and double armour im free to behave like a mini assault mech.

[PanzerMagier]

I collide with many a thing with my atlas/centurian and rarely do I see any damage to the opposite mech or my self.

If damage unit collision is on, it's clearly not working right or significant enough to be noticed and use it as a viable tactic.

ES is sometimes useful to heavy mechs, no assault would run it. FF is not even worth mentioning on heavies.

The point is, all the smaller mechs are getting buffed by either sloppy game mechanics not working right or game mechanics giving a biased improvement to lighter/faster mechs.

If double heatsinks worked 2.0 (like they SHOULD) I could beam more and likely hit more.

If unit collision was on (I cant recall HOW many silly mechs that collided with me and just ran past) I could simply turnaround/reverse and alpha away

If Netcoding was actually something worth mentioning I could lead and easily kill my targets ( Yes I do lead my shots so stop with all this "you can only hit still standing mechs nonsense")

If you're here to come deliver snide childish remarks, I suggest you leave wispy.

Light mechs are NOT supposed to dominate the battlefield, they're scouts. They have minimal weapons simply so that they can retaliate. A GOOD scout is has the ability to take out heavier mechs through good piloting and hitting where they are vulnerable while heavier mechs keep said mech focused.

I don't think sloppy netcode and poor game mechanics count as good pilot skill.

[DrxAbstract]

krash27, on 10 November 2012 - 07:28 AM, said:

We should not have to lag shoot like MW3.

Oh you shouldnt, should you? Why is that, exactly? You were willing to do it in MW3 (And MW2 for some of us), but it's absolutely absurd now? Has the land of Broadband interwebs lead you to a trough of spoiled entitlement? If you you're going to stomp your foot and throw that 'I shouldnt have to" attitude around i'd rather you stepped out and let one of these other fine chaps who's willing to go the distance have your seat.

[Wispsy]

krash27, on 10 November 2012 - 07:28 AM, said:

We should not have to lag shoot like MW3.

No but it is not hard if you are apparently capable of turning a Jenner into a firework on your screen...just aim an inch further...

I want collisions put back in more then anyone, that is the main reason most lights have no fear at all atm rushing at the enemy team. I would also like the netcode fixed as it looks better seeing the light mech light up as you hit it. This does not change my post

[deputydog]

2.0 dhs does not change anything. It means the scouts could fire even more.
You want to kill scouts, build a scout killer or fight with someone who drives one.
Not every mech can kill every other, that is the beauty.

Get a pulse laser/stk mech and hunt them down. An assault is not a scout killer.

[Aquilus]

Zakius, on 10 November 2012 - 07:35 AM, said:

People dont want light s to be easy kills, what they do want however is Lights to fill the battlefield role they are supposed to have. Lights = scouting and recon mechs not Little assault mechs which is where they currently sit. Lights will soon have ECM and BAP allowing them to fill the battlefield role they are supposed to have. A scout uses its speed and manouverability to avoid engaging heavier mechs. A Commando hit in the leg by 2 large lasers should have the leg almost destroyed. But right now because of armour doubling, and lag shield combined with hit detection issues. Right now your lucky if it barely damages it.

I love lights, i love piloting my jenner doing almost 150 KPH but right now i feel nearly immortal. With no collisions of any kind no fear of being knocked over. and double armour im free to behave like a mini assault mech.

Skirmisher is and should be a viable role for appropriately equipped light mechs. Your claims of behaving like a "mini assault" are absurd, as lights have a fraction of the armour and firepower of assaults. Armour is doubled on *all* mechs, not just lights, so I don't see how that factors into the equation at all.

[Z0MBIE Y0SHI]

Hard to believe I'm looking at a 'Lights are OP' thread considering the past MW titles.

And I'm gonna come right out and say. If lights are consistently dominating you.

Its you.

[Wispsy]

PanzerMagier, on 10 November 2012 - 07:35 AM, said:

I collide with many a thing with my atlas/centurian and rarely do I see any damage to the opposite mech or my self.

If damage unit collision is on, it's clearly not working right or significant enough to be noticed and use it as a viable tactic.

ES is sometimes useful to heavy mechs, no assault would run it. FF is not even worth mentioning on heavies.

The point is, all the smaller mechs are getting buffed by either sloppy game mechanics not working right or game mechanics giving a biased improvement to lighter/faster mechs.

If double heatsinks worked 2.0 (like they SHOULD) I could beam more and likely hit more.

If unit collision was on (I cant recall HOW many silly mechs that collided with me and just ran past) I could simply turnaround/reverse and alpha away

If Netcoding was actually something worth mentioning I could lead and easily kill my targets ( Yes I do lead my shots so stop with all this "you can only hit still standing mechs nonsense")

If you're here to come deliver snide childish remarks, I suggest you leave wispy.

Light mechs are NOT supposed to dominate the battlefield, they're scouts. They have minimal weapons simply so that they can retaliate. A GOOD scout is has the ability to take out heavier mechs through good piloting and hitting where they are vulnerable while heavier mechs keep said mech focused.

I don't think sloppy netcode and poor game mechanics count as good pilot skill.

Wispsy. And there are plenty of people who can hit me no problem if I give them the opportunity in my Jenner. Light mechs dominated the battlefield before collisions were removed, just now you do not need the piloting skill to avoid every single mech charging at you to survive if they cannot aim.....

Ofc Atlas pilots always feel like they dominate the field with their MASSIVE ARMOUR AND FIREPOWER....but well that is to be expected.

[cyberFluke]

Zakius, on 10 November 2012 - 07:35 AM, said:

People dont want light s to be easy kills, what they do want however is Lights to fill the battlefield role they are supposed to have. Lights = scouting and recon mechs not Little assault mechs which is where they currently sit. Lights will soon have ECM and BAP allowing them to fill the battlefield role they are supposed to have. A scout uses its speed and manouverability to avoid engaging heavier mechs. A Commando hit in the leg by 2 large lasers should have the leg almost destroyed. But right now because of armour doubling, and lag shield combined with hit detection issues. Right now your lucky if it barely damages it.

I love lights, i love piloting my jenner doing almost 150 KPH but right now i feel nearly immortal. With no collisions of any kind no fear of being knocked over. and double armour im free to behave like a mini assault mech.

I'm gonna keep saying it till people get it. Light mechs, specifically scouts have had the majority of their role taken away from them. Scout mechs typically had the equipment to relay targettting information to the commander, who ordered mechs to move/attack appropriately. At the minute, we *ALL* have that equipment, so my Awesome is as valid a scout as a Jenner.

This is the cause of the majority of balance issues RE:LRMS and has a very deep running effect on a lot of other mechanics.

Aquilus, on 10 November 2012 - 07:43 AM, said:

Skirmisher is and should be a viable role for appropriately equipped light mechs. Your claims of behaving like a "mini assault" are absurd, as lights have a fraction of the armour and firepower of assaults. Armour is doubled on *all* mechs, not just lights, so I don't see how that factors into the equation at all.

Can someone with more datamining skill than I determine if there's any truth in the "Scout mechs have a 50% damage resistance from any non scout aggressor" rumor I've heard lately? It would certainly explain things...

[cyberFluke]

DrxAbstract, on 10 November 2012 - 07:38 AM, said:

Oh you shouldnt, should you? Why is that, exactly? You were willing to do it in MW3 (And MW2 for some of us), but it's absolutely absurd now? Has the land of Broadband interwebs lead you to a trough of spoiled entitlement? If you you're going to stomp your foot and throw that 'I shouldnt have to" attitude around i'd rather you stepped out and let one of these other fine chaps who's willing to go the distance have your seat.

He's right. If we have to learn to "lag shoot", that means the whole game is balanced in favour of those from the US.

[sokitumi]

Z0MBIE Y0SHI, on 10 November 2012 - 07:44 AM, said:

Hard to believe I'm looking at a 'Lights are OP' thread considering the past MW titles.

And I'm gonna come right out and say. If lights are consistently dominating you.

Its you.

BS.. the only way to consistently damage lights is streaks. Laser's are just not hitting despite visual hit. Ballistics vs lights has always been a questionable affair, and usually just a waste of ammo.

DrxAbstract, on 10 November 2012 - 07:38 AM, said:

Oh you shouldnt, should you? Why is that, exactly? You were willing to do it in MW3 (And MW2 for some of us), but it's absolutely absurd now? Has the land of Broadband interwebs lead you to a trough of spoiled entitlement? If you you're going to stomp your foot and throw that 'I shouldnt have to" attitude around i'd rather you stepped out and let one of these other fine chaps who's willing to go the distance have your seat.

There's so much failure here where to begin. The year is 2012. The game is based 100% online as PvP. "I shouldn't have to" really translates as "I wont spend money on"...

Edited by sokitumi, 10 November 2012 - 08:12 AM.

[rythex]

Scouts are terrible in this game, there is currently no incentive for them to drive well, just herpderping around, running into hills, other mechs, theyre next to impossible to hit with the current net-code if they're running 100km+/hour, they lag around.. it's even worse if they have a ****** ping, or if they hit a flat object, they warp around, like a box, building, other mech, warp warp warp, then it gets desynced even more and you have to guess where they are or if they accidently do a full stop then you can hit them.

No, you're not a good light pilot if you're spamming your small/med laser boat and lagging around, it means the game is terrible.

When there are 4 medium/heavy mechs shooting at one mech and noone is connecting.. there is a problem.. and it's not "oh those 4 guys suck" it's "oh look someone is exploiting the crap net-code and warping around like the SS Enterprise.

edit: yes I know its beta and yes I know theyre working on their netcode, doesn't mean I can't ***** about it though.

cyberFluke, on 10 November 2012 - 07:56 AM, said:

He's right. If we have to learn to "lag shoot", that means the whole game is balanced in favour of those from the US.

Trust me, even with a 42ms ping it's still hard as hell to hit lights as they just warp around.

Edited by rythex, 10 November 2012 - 08:04 AM.

[Lorcan Lladd]

Aquilus, on 10 November 2012 - 07:43 AM, said:

Skirmisher is and should be a viable role for appropriately equipped light mechs. Your claims of behaving like a "mini assault" are absurd, as lights have a fraction of the armour and firepower of assaults. Armour is doubled on *all* mechs, not just lights, so I don't see how that factors into the equation at all.

Not exactly - armor values were not simply doubled across the board, but rather scaled.
To put it into rough numbers: a stock Jenner has 62 points of armor in tabletop, whereas in MechWarrior Online it might be equipped with 300; a stock Atlas has 305 points of armor in tabletop, and 600 in MechWarrior Online.

This has been deemed necessary to preserve the utility of Light 'Mechs as they were being destroyed far too easily during early playtesting.
It does, however, grant them a mixture of speed and resilience to produce 'Mechs which are exceedingly durable as they're protected by lag, bad hit detection, multiplied armor values and a subpar netcode on top of it.

Now, keep it in mind that I can still hit a moving Light 'Mech with a Gauss Rifle, and I face a firing delay of roughly a 0.7 second upon activating the trigger, as a result of high latency, in part...

They're meant to be used for scouting and skirmishing - hit and run.
Gameplay balance is damaged once they no longer have to disengage from or evade enemy 'Mechs, but can simply proceed to hump and shoot their legs with no fear from collision and knockdown.

It will be addressed soon, I'm certain.
We simply have to come up with better ways to neutralize Lights until then.

Edited by Lorcan Lladd, 10 November 2012 - 08:15 AM.