791 replies to this topic

[Ricama]

Welcome to the rollercoaster, LRMs got overnerfed in CB and then brought back up, but the down swing won't last too long I hope. I'm not saying it's at a ridiculous extreme but they were really good two patches ago, then went stupid op and now are noticeably below two patches ago.

Standing out in the open should be dangerous. LRMs don't do enough damage to make it dangerous.

[Gimpy Warpig]

Mockeryangel, on 10 November 2012 - 08:40 PM, said:

*sic*... and I'm really not good at this game.

That need not have been said, based on the rest of your statement it was already obvious.

[Ghost_19Hz]

The way they were before this recent hotfix and even before artemis was extremely powerful. It caused very boring play. If you enjoyed both teams sitting and waiting for missiles and lag shielded scouts to finish their thing before anyone else could do anything, well sorry, i thought that was very very boring and created very predictable movements and team compositions.

[Gimpy Warpig]

Shaddock, on 10 November 2012 - 08:40 PM, said:

I am at the moment considering taking AMS off many of my mechs.

Yes, do this, and let us know how it works for you LOL.

[Scratx]

My C1 with Art LRM10's and quad medium laser murders things... but I just don't sit back all the match firing at targets I can't see over 800m away. I close in , preferably to the 650-300m range and ideally with LOS to the target whenever possible before opening fire.

Of course, I'm doing this because I'm confident about my mech. It's heavily armored, adequately armed and I've got more than enough experience shooting lag-shielded lights that they have to think hard about whether their odds are good. And the shorter range also means I'll often fire my lasers to add pin-point damage to the targets I'm pumping missiles into.

I see what my missiles do. Four tons usually last me long enough for the battle to be decided, one way or the other, and even Atlases don't like the hammering.

Maybe the problem a lot of the "LRM are UP" complainers is sitting back so far they are giving their targets time to negate their salvos. I know that's what usually happens against me. Long range salvo? I have to be very much out of place not to negate them by cover.

Remember, one of the things this latest patch and the hotfix did was implement an incoming missile alert indicator.

[Greyfyl]

Almost no LRM boats seen tonight in 3 hours of playing. Can't imagine why.....but seriously I read that LRM's are perfect now.

[Skoad]

Ive found lrms to be pretty pointless now. Im sure they will get beefed back up, but atm they are pretty weak. Almost every match I drop every lrm ona single mech only to have him still alive in the end. I can drop all lrms on a Jenner and still not kill him. Its beta.. things are going to suck and then be op and then suck and then be op.. eventually things will get to where they need to be.

[Mavairo]

Greyfyl, on 10 November 2012 - 10:06 PM, said:

Almost no LRM boats seen tonight in 3 hours of playing. Can't imagine why.....but seriously I read that LRM's are perfect now.

I field mine when I know I have proper support from team mates. Ie. Not Pugs.

Pugs by and large are nigh uncapable of mutual support. And that's when LRMs look their worst. when people actually work together is when LRMs really come into their own.

[Greyfyl]

Mavairo, on 10 November 2012 - 10:12 PM, said:

I field mine when I know I have proper support from team mates. Ie. Not Pugs.

Pugs by and large are nigh uncapable of mutual support. And that's when LRMs look their worst. when people actually work together is when LRMs really come into their own.

Mutual support doesn't change the fact that LRM'***** like a wet noodle now. Hell, I switched from LRM's to PPC's on my Cent that I'm grinding right now, what does that tell you? And yes, the PPC's are WAYYYYY more effective.

Edited by Greyfyl, 10 November 2012 - 10:17 PM.

[NovaFury]

PythonCPT, on 10 November 2012 - 09:44 PM, said:

The way they were before this recent hotfix and even before artemis was extremely powerful.

Yep, this was a PUG game. I can sort of understand why people so desperately want to cling to missiles this powerful, though.

[Pugnacious Stoat]

I didn't think that LRMs were too powerful before the nerf. However, it wasn't until after the nerf that I realized the stifling influence they had on gameplay. I've been in a bunch of matches recently where everyone ended up brawling in massive melee, out in the open at the center of the map, and it was probably the most fun I've had with this game. I'm not saying every match should play out that way, but I never saw anything like that before the nerf--LRM boats were simply too ubiquitous and too powerful. You could counter them, yes, but that meant adopting an extremely cautious playstyle in pretty much every fight.

Maybe LRMs need a bit of a buff at this point to be worth the tonnage, but it would be a shame to go back to having the pace and style of combat be consistently dictated by them. My ideal LRM boat would be helpful in most situations, but only a dominant force in situations where its team could maximize the benefits of its range and suppression capability (shake or no shake, it's still not easy to shoot through a hail of LRMs).

[Cachucho]

The main downside of the lrms was that on a 1vs1 viewpoint they were sort of balanced, but on a teamplay environment where you can focus fire targets, it was just murderous.

And they still are but not to the state where you get to see long range lrm battles, and if something comes up in the open is destroyed in a couple salvos.

Other weapons require timing, leading, spotting, what we tend to describe as skill, but for me it actually comes down to playing experience.

When first started to play the game I could hit jack. I swayed to lrms because they are autotargetting tools, require no aiming, virtually no los, just click and shoot. Not my playstyle, I prefer ballistics, mainly cause I used to play as a tanker on the mod Forgotten Hope for bf1942. So I can refer to that. Shooting at the head of a mech kinda referres to aiming at a weak spot on a tank.

I know how to lead shot targets, how patience works best than zinging at all that moves on your crosshair. I can also tell you that takes time and practice. LRMs take little. You just require tactical awareness, and, if youre on a team communication. Easy and natural weapon for a newcomer to go to.

Having 2-3 lrms boats showering a single target, then moving to the next, whilst not even giving players a chance to close up was destroying the gaming experience and enjoyment. Having to lie back and out of sight while the lrm boats have at each other, meant minutes of playing a waiting game, that was not fun.

On teamplay, competitive gameplay and tournaments that may be acceptable, and should be a trait, patience, discipline. Against casuals, or with casuals, its was just not fun, seeing mechs going down one by one, because they dont know better, And then should you play smartly you still get rolled up cause you are the one left standing, even after all you did was lying in cover.

For a newcomer who most of the times does not even know how, why, or even the reason to use weapon groupings, damage ratings, what ranges on the weapons mean, etc,,,,first impressions would be bad. He either assumes there is steep learning curve, and commits to it, or walks out of frustration. The reason being that even for a first timer you need the feeling of contributing towards a goal, even if you have no clue what youre doing. Strip that away, and what was the entertainment value He got for playing a game?

My view is that LRMs could use a further tweak, and slightly bump the damage, but please just dont revert to that way they were before the hotfix.

LRMs boats should and have their place on the game, but not in a fashion where the game tends to gravitate towards who has the most wins, no tactics or strategy needed.

[Cataphract]

Damage on LRMs are fine at 1.7 per missile. I can also agree with those saying there are hit registration issues with missiles. Ive had a quad LRM15 mech alpha me at about 300m and guess what, not a single missile registered a hit. When LRMs do register and using Artemis to boot they do reliable damage once again. Not over the top debilitating damage but enough that it softens the mech up without acting like a staples easy button.

[Dren Nas]

Gimpy Warpig, on 10 November 2012 - 09:30 PM, said:

Answer: your LRM catapult pilot doesnt know how to pilot his way out of a wet paper bag then. Stop making yourself look foolish whining that the broken weapon system was fixed. They operate just fine still, was winging some of my buddies today who dealt out bigbig damage with their lrm boats, but they weren't insta-killing like before - they had to work for it, just like any other weapon in the game.

Seriously, this again? Read the thread and stop bring up useless info about when missiles were broken before the hotfix.

[Valdez Raptor]

NovaFury, on 10 November 2012 - 10:19 PM, said:

Yep, this was a PUG game. I can sort of understand why people so desperately want to cling to missiles this powerful, though.

I like how you are using a TWO DAY op bug as an excuse to say "LRM's are fine and you want them this way." No, we don't want LRM's like that. We want them before they were like that, that patch before the one that made them OP? Remember that one? Oh no of course you don't. You want to base your entire argument about how OP LRM's are on a 48 hour period when they were bugged and made retardedly stupid OP. (Which by the way I played mostly not on my LRM boat then, and still avoided fire quite nicely for the most part)

LRM's are not the end all be all weapon like they were in that one 48 hour period you took that screen shot, but they need to be a feared weapon none the less. They need to make you to use tactics and how to fight, where to fight, and how to counter certain mechs and right now they aren't doing any of that. They are retardedly weak and need to be buffed to a happy middle ground above where they are now and below where they were OP in that screenshot.

Oh by the way, up until that 48 hour period where they were unintentionally broken, a majority of people thought LRM's were perfect. That is except the people who were idiots and ran in the open like they were running into an open field of flowers.

[Valaska]

Dren Nas, on 10 November 2012 - 09:41 AM, said:

Why?

If you're going to make such a definitive statement, give us a reason why... and don't say "LRMs are ezmoade!" because they aren't unless some scrub tries to run through a large open area.

The LRM problem was the most vastly hated issue plaguing MWO, new players were dropping left and right and may be completely lost to PGI, why you may ask? Because when you are learning, say snowboarding, you don't take the black run. So LRM's were not a great introduction, mechs standing behind hills, killing them within 10 seconds (Less usually), left a bad taste in their mouths.

LRM's being indirect fire (without artemis) in this game makes them an extremely risk free weapon. Don't even try bullshitting and saying "GET CLOSE TO THEM DUH!! LOL YOU SUCK" because no, no I do not. I hold a 2.10 KD (last I checked anways) and virtually the only deaths I have ever had, were due to LRM's. In a jenner, I would be plastered by LRM's if a spotter so much as glanced in my direction, running at 121 KPH and trying to weave through cover.
As a Dragon, well LRM's would fly overtop of a building and 90 degree straight the hell down into my cockpit haha. It was frustrating. Basically, LRM's became the end game, to a game meant to have no end game. This is why your LRM's are not delegated to the role they have ALWAYS meant to be, a support role/fire saturation weapon. Two Catapults with LRM's can still take something down, but 1 Catapult with a spotter that has NARC and/or TAG equiped will be able to fight an atlas a long with the damage the spotter is delivering.

Perhaps LRM damage will be upped when ECM comes about, but to be honest, I couldn't give two *****. Its a back up or support weapon, and its been put in its place yet again.

[Sephlock]

Why not just make it so that most of the missiles will generally hit, but RELIABLY spread (as opposed to the BS system currently used for SSRMs), so that lrm volleys will trend strongly towards stripping arms off of battlemechs before coring them?

The lrms would prioritize arms, then legs, then scatter across the torso, with a small chance of hitting the head.

That way showers from groups of lrm boats would have a harder time focus firing enemies to death one by one...

[Suki]

Just try adding some skill in using your LRM-boat.
My friend Chpoks can do a little bit more damage than me and others. He's not always a top 1, but always in first 4 in effectiveness.

[Valaska]

Sephlock, on 10 November 2012 - 11:58 PM, said:

Why not just make it so that most of the missiles will generally hit, but RELIABLY spread (as opposed to the BS system currently used for SSRMs), so that lrm volleys will trend strongly towards stripping arms off of battlemechs before coring them?

The lrms would prioritize arms, then legs, then scatter across the torso, with a small chance of hitting the head.

That way showers from groups of lrm boats would have a harder time focus firing enemies to death one by one...

Because thats just as bad, LRM 20's would instantly rip an arm off, the system now is actually believe it or not, pretty close to TT.

[NovaFury]

Valdez Raptor, on 10 November 2012 - 11:50 PM, said:

You want to base your entire argument about how OP LRM's are on a 48 hour period when they were bugged and made retardedly stupid OP.

Yeesh, you go sarcastic for a little bit and you get this level of vitriol. Okay, you feel strongly about LRMs, but frankly, 2 damage is 2 damage. The numbers don't lie, all the bugged flight-path did was make it so everyone and their dog could use LRMs as if they were direct-firing at around 360 meters, which is where they're strongest.

They do a ton of damage still, and you're just wrong if you think they don't.

The mere fact I could carry that much damage in ammunition (It was still 2 per missile on that day!) is absurd.

Edited by NovaFury, 11 November 2012 - 12:19 AM.