3696 replies to this topic

[RedHairDave]

for those who love polls,
http://mwomercs.com/...32#entry1420432

[Brynstar]

Voted NO.

[Zyllos]

Krivvan, on 14 November 2012 - 10:34 AM, said:

That's what they're proposing though.

Where did they say it was going to be Trial mechs only?

Also, doesn't that divide the Trial/Owned mechs even more (not only can you modify the mech, you lose 3rd Person that you so lovingly used to learn torso twisting/leg direction).

[B4DKARM4]

Krivvan, on 14 November 2012 - 10:31 AM, said:

No company gives a job to someone who just acts as an 'ideas' guy.

Funny, thats how the devs come across as anyway.

Except their ideas arent vetted with the community first and usually suck.

Edited by B4DKARM4, 14 November 2012 - 10:37 AM.

[John Norad]

quasihuman, on 14 November 2012 - 10:07 AM, said:

If people have trouble piloting a mech, they need to practice, just like a real pilot would.

This is very true.
Personally, it took me some time to get used to the controls. I think in addition to the torso twist the one thing that adds to the confusion is the speed throttle instead of a 'gas pedal'. The mech keeps moving, even if you release the 'W' key, and you have to get accustomed in using the 'X' key instead.
But with a bit of practice, it will all become natural.

Now where's the problem?

Here it is:
Practice needs time.

So you have to keep new players entertained long enough to take that time and actually learn the ropes.
And here's exactly where all the little flaws in the current game come into play.
The game has to be actually FUN to keep a new player playing and willing to invest the time required to become a good pilot.

- Getting roflstomped doesn't help - > implement better matchmaking and a tutorial asap
- Having no real progress early on doesn't help -> Give new players something to play with. Reward a cheap mech for the tutorial or give a one-time price reduction for the first mech. Basically anything..
- Being confronted with an unintuitive UI doesn't help -> Streamline the UI, reduce mouse movement, add tooltips and help

Of course you can just dumb the game down instead.
But I'd advise against it. Stay your original course. Focus on quality. Fix the above mentioned issues.

I'd also take a long hard look at all the sounds and special effects ingame. Some are really lacking. As silly as it sounds, firing a weapon in a combat simulation should be fun. Some weapons are no fun. The Gauss could have a bit more 'Ooomph' (but the general overpoweredness of it make up for it).The PPC is ok. Autocannons are totally lacking fun and need a more menacing and mighty sound. How can it be that the AC2 is the only AC that sounds dangerous? Lasers are also a little bland. I know some people who stated them to be unsatisfying and boring.
These are just some hints.

[Krivvan]

B4DKARM4, on 14 November 2012 - 10:36 AM, said:

Funny, thats how the devs come across as anyway.

Except their ideas arent vetted with the community first and usually suck anyway.

It's not just the devs, it's the entire industry. "Idea" guys are considered worthless since those ideas aren't in the context of what it would take to develop it in the context of actual development.

[Strig]

If we need 3rd Person, allow us to "record" a match and make it available in a "spectator replay mode" !

3rd person view is usually exploitable for looking around corners, avoiding being snuck up on and things like that that make the game tactically challenging. Don't do it, please.

[Krivvan]

Zyllos, on 14 November 2012 - 10:36 AM, said:

Where did they say it was going to be Trial mechs only?

There will be no 3rd person for corp battles or community warfare. The plan was that it would be for new players, but there's nothing yet about trial mech only or anything like that.

[Imagine Dragons]

Krivvan, on 14 November 2012 - 10:34 AM, said:

That's what they're proposing though.

Not what the information is implying...

They said they are settings in the "community warfare" for 1st person, 3rd person and, together match options.

Thats not just for new players, its going to be in general and over arching meta game play.

Edited by XenomorphZZ, 14 November 2012 - 10:39 AM.

[Krivvan]

XenomorphZZ, on 14 November 2012 - 10:38 AM, said:

Not what the information is implying...

They said they are settings in the "community warfare" for 1st person, 3rd person and, together match options.

Thats not just for new players, its going to be in general and over arching meta game play.

Didn't they say that community warfare would *only* have 1st person and that regular playlists and etc. would have a choice between 1st and 3rd?

[Kalthios]

Where are they getting the idea from that this community wants third person? Twitter and facebook? This is garbage. I want more simulation features, like being able to raise and lower my arms, not arcade features like 3rd person.

How is this even going to help new players learn to move their robot? Make a damn tutorial. A friend played MWO for the first time the other day, never having played mechwarrior before. "How do I move and look around?" "The mouse controls your torso and arms, circle is the arm reticle, the cross is the torso. Move the legs with WASD, forward and back is a throttle setting." "Oh ok I get it." IT WASN'T DIFFICULT TO GRASP AT ALL!

PGI already talking about adding arcade features when they haven't even implemented all the battletech systems fully yet: crits and the heat scale. Add more simulation features: add cameras to mechs (forward, left, right, back) that display on in-cockpit MFDs, workable arms, more cockpit controls.

But I guess this is going to be yet another low-brow arcade game.

Edited by Kalthios, 14 November 2012 - 10:48 AM.

[Ozzalin]

Krivvan, on 14 November 2012 - 10:34 AM, said:

That's what they're proposing though.

Jeeeeezus you guys...
Think before you post...

If you make noobs playing a tutorial in 3rd person view.
What do you think will happen when they'll be thrown into the real game which will only be in 1st??...
Same crap again, poor kids won't be able to control their Mechs.

[T Hawk]

If this happens, I'm gone.

I have enough of developers catering to the noobs. I recently lost a game because a Jenner pilot was running out of the capzone. Nope, sorry. I'm not going to endure any more of this. Hand them a good tutorial, but don't simplify the game like that.

[Krivvan]

Ozzalin, on 14 November 2012 - 10:41 AM, said:

Jeeeeezus you guys...
Think before you post...

If you make noobs playing a tutorial in 3rd person view.
What do you think will happen when they'll be thrown into the real game which will only be in 1st??...
Same crap again, poor kids won't be able to control their Mechs.

I made no comment that I thought it was a good idea.

[Keifomofutu]

Kalthios, on 14 November 2012 - 10:40 AM, said:

Where are they getting the idea from that this community wants third person? Twitter and facebook? This is garbage. I want more simulation features, like being able to raise and lower my arms, not arcade features like 3rd person.

How is this even going to help new players learn to move their robot? Make a damn tutorial. A friend played MWO for the first time the other day, never having played mechwarrior before. "How do I move and look around?" "The mouse controls your torso and arms, circle is the arm reticle, the cross is the torso. Move the legs with WASD, forward and back is a throttle setting." "Oh ok I get it." IT WASN'T DIFFICULT TO GRASP AT ALL!

Random guy from E3 told them to do it. Then he tripped on a garbage can because he forgot where his legs were.

[Kill Dozer]

Negative ghost rider, the pattern is full.

[Squidhead Jax]

Oriius, on 14 November 2012 - 10:24 AM, said:

To be honest the more I read here, thinking about it the more I realise the issue seems to be one of keeping people new to the game happy. I don't think this will do it.

Hows about you do a tutorial mode, that goes over all the basics, at the end of which you get lets say 1.5 million c-bills, and enough MC for one free paint job (once you roll that out).

Bait the hook to catch the fish? Just an idea.

Exactly. Right now there's just a naked rusty hook. 3PV doesn't make driving a 'mech (or rather, controlling any turreted vehicle from a turret-oriented view) any simpler, and there's little incentive to stick around long enough for it to click. This is at least something that WoT does right by sticking the new player in a tank that can start being built upon after the first few rounds, not first few hours. A basic (low tech base, limited selection, nothing over 50 tons, maybe lighter) starting 'mech would serve the same purpose and provide something that the new player feels invested in immediately.

But no, I guess splitting the playerbase seems like a better idea.

Somehow.

With the week I'm having at work, I think I could really use some of what they're smoking.

[Rokuzachi]

Strig, on 14 November 2012 - 10:37 AM, said:

If we need 3rd Person, allow us to "record" a match and make it available in a "spectator replay mode" ! 3rd person view is usually exploitable for looking around corners, avoiding being snuck up on and things like that that make the game tactically challenging. Don't do it, please.

If this game were more of a simulation, I'd agree with you. But it's just a glorified arcade/FPS with an emphasis on hit locations. Don't get me wrong, I love the game... but it's so far from a simulation that I completely expect them to implement things like 3rd person in the long run.

[Boscoe]

Its my opinion that the immersion effect of being in the cockpit and getting slammed around is just simply the best possible way to learn. I am seeing HORDES of trial mechs rushing in solo and getting just brutalized, and I know some of them are farming c-bills but no where near all of them can be. I don't think a third person view will help this... at all.

In fact I think many veteran pilots won't care one way of the other, we'll just keep slugging it out regardless. So if the argument is that it will help new pilots... I don't find that to be sound logic. If the argument is that it will provide tactical advantage... I don't find that to be sound logic either.

Rather my recommendation is to either finally get up a training area or tutorial (in game mode) so that, just like other immersion style games (first person) the pilot can learn how to move and work within the environment.

I would also suggest some kind of banner (like the one for the Wang) that says NEW PILOTS CLICK HERE!!! and then another one that say REALLY, NEW PILOTS CLICK HERE!!! over and over or something like that. And give them a portal where they can find TS server information for unaffiliated community and the videos that are up already.

Just my 3 cents worth.

~jB

[Archphor]

I dont mind 3rd person perspective, however io dont belive mixing 3rd and 1st person perspectives in a PvP enviroment is a wise decision. 3rd person has a distinct advantage over 1st in that you can see around and over cover without moving from it. In PvP it has to be 1 or the other.

Also I dont understand how it is so difficult for somone to understand the controles. its like any other FPS. W, A, S, D control the torso while the mouse is where you are looking. the only real diffence is the degree in which a mech can twist there torso and you cant stop, turn, and run full speed instantly.