3696 replies to this topic

[von Pilsner]

3rd person really messed up MW4 for competitive play.

HINT: Poptart JJ snipers who can see over hilltops.

Your other option of segregating the community requires a very large player base to work.... I suspect it will still lead to the dumbing down of MWO.

[Mavairo]

Good lord. They are really working on THIS? And not new game modes?

Seriously? Someone should be fired over this. 3rd person perspective is NOT one of the many things this game needs right now. Maybe sometime down in the future, but not NOW.

Right now we need at least a second game mode, (or the Real version of assault... assuming we're ever going to get whatever the ''real'' version of Assault we were promised anyway) at least 2 more mechs, several bug fixes (I can name several spots on a couple of maps that you can get Stuck in terrain on STILL), engine optimization, changes to Netcode so the Lagshield finally dies the ignoble death it deserves.

[CygnusX7]

I don't see why this is needed for the reasons mentioned since the HUD Map show the direction a mech's legs and torso are facing.

[TyR]

They should focus on improving the HUD to give better feedback of where the torso is in relation to legs. This game was somewhat confusing at first and took some time to get used to due to how this information is relayed (your view area in radar/map always points to the top instead of the mechs direction always pointing to the top with the way you are facing in your mech spinning around accordingly) compared to past games.

This also raises the question of do we really want to have the bar set so low that someone who is confused by separate leg and torso controls gets catered to? If it is not intuitive at first fine, provide better HUD information and tutorials. However, I would think anyone who is going to stick around and play enough to actually want to pay money for anything will be able to figure this out. Following this path could easily lead to people who cannot handle the heat build up getting a no heat mode put in.

If they really want to help people out who are not able to figure things out then the first priority should be fixing the netcode, so people do not have to lag shoot like we are in a 90's mechwarrior game. This is something the new people are probably even more clueless about.

[Salient]

Here's some feedback: DONT DO IT.

If you do, make it for custom 'for fun' matches only.

Damn sell outs.

Edited by Salient, 14 November 2012 - 11:16 AM.

[Adeptis]

Implement third person, and I'm out. I might be out already. I've tried to remain hopeful, but the devs philosophy is in the wrong place.

A) If the game is "too difficult" for new players, add a tutorial. None of this other ********. League of Legends isn't an easy game to play. It has different mechanics than what some people are familiar with. But they have an interactive tutorial, and sure enough, I got to playing quickly and competently after playing through it.

You know damn well from the MW4 fallout that 3rd person views provide inherent advantages to 1st person. You know this. Adding this 'feature' would make 3rd person the most competitive option, and that's not what we signed up for.

C) You AGAIN are adding content without fixing existing bugs! Come on! This is basic software development! I understand that these systems are complex and that some features are reliant on others, but seriously. This is content that literally 95% didn't ask for or don't care about and you decided it was a good idea. This will divide the playerbase immensely, and your playerbase isn't big enough to afford that.

D) This game is doomed unless you as a dev team and IGP understand that this game needs about a 6-9months more work before we can even consider release, and that an interactive tutorial is among one of the MOST important features. Bug fix patches now need to be prioritized over content or you will start hemorrhaging players quickly.

[Mercules]

I do not support 3rd person view. I hated having to switch to it when playing online to even the playing field in earlier Mechwarrior games. When we would play at a LAN we enforced a 1st person rule. I think it would greatly detract from many of the game's existing players experience, to the point you may lose many of them.

Point in fact. You removed the ability of ours to change the perspective in the cockpit to avoid some of us gaining and unfair advantage. That was minor in balance issues compared to someone using 3rd person and another using 1st person.


After being adamant that you would never offer up such a thing, to turn around and do so would make us doubt most of your other promises Considering "It is coming and it will be like this." is the main thing you have going for you with some of us, you do NOT want us doubting your word. Next thing you know it will be, "We will not sell game advantages to those with MC." and the community will go, "Kinda like how you would never have a 3rd person perspective?"

I listened to the webcast and I hear what Russ was saying. I understand that for new players the hardest thing to grasp is that I am moving this way and looking that way. This adds a learning curve to the game. Do I think it makes the game unapproachable? No... I think it makes it unapproachable for anyone who doesn't want anything other than a WoW or CoD clone.

I get it. The people who handle the money are saying you need those unwashed masses who can't walk and chew bubble gum to come play. You know the ones. The ones that stop walking whenever they have to say something on the phone then resume when the other person talks?

Here is what they are missing. Battletech/Mechwarrior IP sells. It resells. I own the original rules and rules from FASA and have bought books from Catalyst games. That fanbase that you will likely alienate will spend money. The F2P "I don't get it." masses will not. I saw them over and over in DDO(the game that saved itself with basically the model your F2P is taking) come into the game, burn through the first bit of content and leave because, "The game is not new player friendly. I has a learning curve. People who don't know D&D won't understand it." Enough got it, without dumbing it down too much for them. A couple hints here and there like having the leveling up suggest useful skills/feats for your class, got them going and they took it from there and learned that there is more beyond those hints.

~IF~ you absolutely, positively must include it then I would prefer you make it so that you can queue for 1st person or 3rd person matches and let your loyal community continue to play the way they want to and give your newbs a crappy version they might enjoy.

[Sevaradan]

IMO if you cant figure out how to drive a mech 1st person and need 3rd person to not walk into stuff you should be playing something else.

[ManDaisy]

My thoughts are its would be better to spend the time and money to create a interactive tutorial which would address the learning curve of new players other then try to force something down the communities throat for those who do not want to learn.

1) Building an interactive tutorial now is is essentially paving the way for future PVE content, rather then having to RE-THINK and waste resources on your compromising your whole game perspective.

2) Bringing in 3rd persion (WILL NOT bring in an influx of new players), the core issues keeping people from playing is that they are not well instructed or experienced.

3) By having a tutorial, new players will stay as they will no longer have the learning adaptation issues causing the "minority" desire for a potentially vision breaking path of third person.

4) By keeping things to a single view, MUCH MUCH, less work needs to be done to the overall game and balanced instead of doing things twice;

EXAMPLES- YOU MUST REWORK and WASTE RESOURCES ON BY DOING TWICE, 1 for EACH VIEW

1) COCKPIT SHAKE
2) SPECIAL EFFECTS/SMOKE
3) FALL DOWN
4) THERMAL IMAGING
5) HUD DISPLAY, TARGETING

6) COLLISION!!!!!
7) MELEE
8) PERSPECTIVE
9) WALL SEE-THRU, CORNER PEEKING
10) POPTARTING
11) PARTIAL COVER, TERRAIN
12) LINE OF SIGHT DETECTION
13) CROSS HAIRS AND AIMING

14) SMALL MECHS, vs LARGE MECH, Vision Balancing

15) DEBUGGING THE VIEW POINT FOR ALL FUTURE MECH MODELS

17) JUMP JET SCOUTING VIEW EXPLOITATION

ALL these will having to be done twice! One for 1st person and 1 third person. Everything after that and the future will also have to be done twice. Work by grow by a factor of 9999999999999999999999! Game pace on whats important will SLOW!

Edited by ManDaisy, 14 November 2012 - 11:41 AM.

[Archphor]

I am not for it.
if the game was ONLY in 3rd person then i would be agianst adding 1st person.
But you have made a 1st person Mechwarrior game (one i am REALY enjoying) and i think you should stick with 1st person. Put those that are working on a 3rd person mode on the team thats makeing the Tutorial. A good playable tutorial would slove alot of problems your having.


EDIT: I would just like to add that you cant and wont please everyone, people will play your game if its good many will stay and some will leave. those that leave will leave for good reasons and/or bad reasons. make your game, but dont make it trying to please everyone. this issue seems to be an issue of trying to please everyone.

Edited by Archphor, 14 November 2012 - 11:18 AM.

[Vassago Rain]

I feel the issue here was the same as dubs being 'too strong.' They weren't too strong, and it wasn't an issue. People were simply willing to take our devs on their word.

Maybe you should learn not to do that, ever.

[FoXabre]

Hi PGI,

I wanted to express my fellings on the inclusion of 3rd person view in MechWarrior Online.

On the pro side of things, it will give us a chance to view our mechs in a whole new way, rather than just seeing it in the mechlab with limited camera movement (based solely on hardpoint selections). Once we get teh camo spec, the 3rd person view wil let us bask in the awesome glory that is our mech!

Other than that I don't think that 3rd person view should be implemented in the ranked matches (or community warfare).

Firstly, ss others have stated, I beleive the 3rd person view gives too much awareness to the player's surroundings. This essentially removes a portion of the gameplay for light mechs being able to sneak up on others, or peering past cover to calculate your next move on the mech on the other side.

Secondly, with the suggested split of games based on 1st or 3rd person views, I think this will seperate the community.

My thinking is that the third person view may be abused in community warfare and cause those playing in 3rd person matches to have a higher success rate than those in 1st person (due to greater situational awareness). This would cause an unfair inbalance in the community warfare and leave 1st person players no choice but to join the 3rd person players in order to impact the future control of planets.

I beleive that 3rd person view may be the way to go for a tutorial map in which the pilot can switch back and forth in order to understand the mechanics of piloting a mech. Other than that and the cool factor of seeing more of your mech and the paint job you give it, I think everyone should be on the same level playing field of the 1st person view. I also see it as one of the major defining features of MechWarrior Online and would hate to see it vanish.

Just a quick summary,

Pros
-A new cool way to view your mech
-Makes the MC cost associated with Camo specs seem a little more worth it since you'll be able to see it on your mech in game

Cons
-Greater situational awarness leads to removal of sneak tactics
-Seperation of the MWO community into different play styles based on view mode
-Possibility of Community Warfare becoming 3rd person only
-Loss of a great feature for MWO


I agree with others that have been posting in the forums in that I think improving upon the matchmaking system and new tutorial system (possibly including a little arena style test area [even for testing new mech configurations without cost]) will help with the issues that most new players have.

So thats about all I have on the subject for now. Either way I have faith in PGI and look forward to your decision.

Thanks for taking the time to read!

Regards,
FoXabre

[Dagger6T6]

I would not... and will not pilot a mech from a 3rd person view.

if you want to add that feature for those that want it (which I feel like is a very small percentage of the player base) then you will need to segregate the MWO players by match.But I do not feel like that is a good idea I'm also against anything that segregates the MWO community especially when it comes to the ultimate idea of planetary / Community warfare

Unless you are going to have separate servers with different levels of emmersion... ie 3rd person Mechwarrior lite... and hardcore full on Mech piloting simulator

sign me up for the latter please

[Oriius]

Hi there, As i see it, the idea is to make it friendly for new players who are finding the controls hard to get the grips of.

With this in-mind I feel the best idea would be to create a tutorial mode that goes over all the basics, after this since we all clearly want players to get hooked as it were, I suggest giving a bonus of 1.5 million C-bills and enough MC for a free paint job (or some other token to allow for one free paint job) once you have that feature rolled out.

By doing this I feel new players would feel a little more at ease, and they'd get a taste of the MC stuff to boot. Thus baiting the hook.

You could also have an "open/test" mode where you take your newly bought/upgraded mech out to get a feel for it, just an open empty map to run about in, can even be the tutorial map, would make sence in my opinion.


As a side note I feel third person would damage some of the more tactical possibilities in the game such as setting up ambushes, or hit and fade attacks on the back of larger mechs or long range support harassers.

Edited by Oriius, 14 November 2012 - 11:24 AM.

[Agent of Change]

It's a bad idea, it will always be a bad idea.

There are no good arguments for it that can't be resolved in less drastic ways. Adding 3person will change the game in a very bad way. Trying to make this game into something it's not, something we didn;'t sign on for, and something we were told goes against the design philosophy is a good way to turn eager paying customers into a juggernaught of negative press.

That said my most honest feed back:

It is a horrible Idea for the game.

I will (and get as many others as i can) to abuse any such mechanic implemented in general gameplay to show why it is such a bad idea, not out of spite but for love of what the game could be if it isn't watered down.

[Lochlan]

The biggest concern I have (besides the fact that third person is a horrible, horrible idea) concerns the idea to split the player base into two groups: those that play with third person, and real MechWarriors. How exactly will that work in Community Warfare? What if a group whose players use third person attacks a planet where the defenders play in first person? Either the combat wouldn't be allowed to happen, or somebody is going to be fighting with a huge disadvantage (either from one team getting the third person camera advantage and the other not, or one team being forced to play with a camera they are not used to). Ipso facto, third person is a bad idea, and you should feel bad.

[Zerikin]

Splitting the player base of an already small player base is a terrible idea. If they add 3rd person they might as well add 360 radar as well while they are at it.

[Ben Delat]

If you implement 3rd Person View, i´d like to get the Money for my Legendary Founder Package back.
Thank you.

This was one of the reasons i did back this Game up, and you want for some dubious "Community complaning Reasons" implement this?

Pleas listen to the People in this Community Post or look into the Poll to this Theme.

[Madoc Owain]

I do not enjoy third-person shooters, and would stop playing MW:O if it were to force me to play using that perspective.

[Dagger6T6]

Zerikin, on 14 November 2012 - 11:16 AM, said:

Splitting the player base of an already small player base is a terrible idea. If they add 3rd person they might as well add 360 radar as well while they are at it.

speaking of 360... they might as well go ahead and port it over to the xbox and playstation as well