3696 replies to this topic

[Josef Nader]

Mechwarrior 3 solved this problem nicely. The default paper doll was a 3D representation of your mech that mirrored all your movements. If your torso twisted in the game, the 3D doll twisted to show you how you were positioned. It gave you a good sense of your mech's orientation without all of the negatives that come with a third person view. It's a great feature, I think, and insanely useful for new players to understand how their mech is behaving.

On top of that, torso/leg orientation hasn't been a problem for any of the new players I've introduced, and this is the first mech-sim for more than a few of them. This seems like using a sledgehammer to pound in furniture tacks. It causes a lot more damage than it fixes.

EDIT: In addition, training someone in third person view does nothing to train them in how to pilot and recognize orientation in first person view. You already have several indicators that show you your orientation. Make them more obvious and polish up your HUD a bit more before relying on such heavy-handed solutions to easily-fixable problems.

Edited by Josef Nader, 14 November 2012 - 11:19 AM.

[Bloody Moon]

I still remember that a few months back we were explaining it to anyone who opened a 3rd person view related topic that no MWO won't have that well before any official could get there, as they already announced it a several times. Remember the "we want the player to feel they are not just the mech, they are the pilot inside the mech" phrase? Well i do, it was said so many times i cannot forget it. Now they go back on their words which is bad in itself, but thats not the worst part.

The worst part is that we need tons of features polished and added to the game 'n yet they chose this time to announce a feature no one really expected back then AFTER they chased away 3rd person fans for months. Great job, whoever handles marketing should go back to college, this is not how a community should be handled.

[skamage]

This is from the MWO website here:


How does gameplay work?

MechWarrior Online puts MechWarriors into a first-person, team-based, tactical battlefield where the victors swim in the spoils of war and are rewarded with the almighty C-Bill (in-game currency)

Edited by skamage, 14 November 2012 - 11:21 AM.

[Joe3142]

I really do not see the point in implementing 3rd person. Its wasting time that could be being used to do more Important stuff, like bug fixes, maps, tweaks etc. The vast majority of people do not want 3rd person, so It should be forgotten. And, if it is planned to be put in the game, they should do it in a year or two when the game is actually working. Also if it was eventually put in, it should have a seperate game mode for players who use it.

Edited by Joe3142, 14 November 2012 - 11:19 AM.

[Imagine Dragons]

I'm a "No 3rd person view, please"

However PGI, if you feel that you absolutely have to have 3rd person view in order to help new players...

Simply enable it for trial mechs, and keep trial mechs in a seperate que, or atleast a que only trial mechs can use.

IMO, thats the only way for 3rd person to be acceptable.

[Adrian Steel]

miSs, on 14 November 2012 - 10:43 AM, said:

Please give constructive feedback by being clear and concise on what your opinions/concerns are about this feature.

We would like to have your feedback only, if you want to share your thoughts and discuss about this, please use this thread.

Forgive me, but the player made thread/poll by arkani wasn't constructive, clear, or concise enough for you guys? The thread blew up from 1 page to 26 pages in a single morning because the community feels that this feature is a serious concern. Aren't you being paid to read it?

Edited by Adrian Steel, 14 November 2012 - 11:22 AM.

[SquareSphere]

This was my thought from another thread, combine on trial mechs as "free/half tonnage" if you want to give a new player the option out of the gate.

SquareSphere, on 14 November 2012 - 11:10 AM, said:

make 3rd person a piece of equipment that weights 4-5 tons but cheap to buy in the mechlab. That way 3rd persons have easy access to it BUT they get a weighty disadvantage. I think you'll see it as a training crutch. People might start out with it but will learn to 1st person just to get the 4-5 tons back.

Call it's advance senors or something, it's not canon but it's a decent compromise.

Edited by SquareSphere, 14 November 2012 - 11:24 AM.

[wanderer]

Hyperdrive, on 14 November 2012 - 11:11 AM, said:

ONLY IN SPECTATOR MODE, THAT IS ALL

Not even then. Spectators should not be able to act as super-recon types.

Forget adding 3rd-person view as a "newbie crutch".

Add an option that lets people launch into a targeting range level where they can stomp around, shoot at targets, see what it's like when they explodes, aim at targets at longer distances, play with jump jets- the whole nine yards. Heck, clip out a section of Forest Colony for the map and go to town.

Give them a bottom-tonnage light to start with so they can bloody well understand 'Mechlab early on- Commandos and later Fleas.

3rd-person view is just a "change" that causes more grief than it will progress.

[Adeptis]

Ozzalin, on 14 November 2012 - 11:15 AM, said:

WRONG.
More problems created as for camera views on 3rd person which is higher
More problems as for cheaters who can peak-high altitude mode, around all buildings.
More problems as for 3rd targeting system vs 1st one
More problems as for the entire mechanics of the game spliting the player base in half.
More problems as an easy mode 3rd vs original 1st aren't compatible at all in the same game room... etc etc.
The list is very long...

Unless you're a cheater yourself, and do not care about the state of the game as it is.
Then you'll probably play your messed up game with other kids...
As the mature community is about to leave in mass.

You don't quite know what Alt-F4 does, do you buddy? Go ahead, give it a try.

[Itarrow]

No please.

MWO has a distinctive appeal vs any other FPS: it's more tactical and more like a "sim".

If this is one of the main differentiators, then stick to that and instead focus in delivering more tutorials and infos for the new players.

I would hate this sudden change, and I'm sure that even if it would attract some new players, it would however impact the long term interest anyone (new or old to MW and BT) can have and put on MWO vs any other generic FPS available.

You have lot of competition. Try to differentiate, don't go for the short term peak instead of the lomg term retention by focusing on an identified niche.

Look at what happened to all the WoW clones in mmorpgs.

My 2 cents.

[Mu]

I think it's more important to just have a tutorial for new players. *maybe* a temporarily enabled third person cam just for this would be okay but even that is dangerous as it might feel like a bait and switch situation. I guarantee there would be outcry from new players to enable it in all modes if you start them off in third person.

In addition to a tutorial, an ideal situation would be to implement a system similar to Halo 3's. Let new players access a matchmaking playlist where they can play (for example) 10 rounds against other new players (all in trial mechs). Give a nice c-bill and exp bonus for completing it, and once you 'graduate' you can move on to the real matchmaking. This game's learning curve isn't that bad but the first few matches are really tough. I think this is really all you need, although this game doesn't have the playerbase of a Halo title so it might be hard to do this. It would certainly work right now.

Giving us a choice is not the answer, because third person is almost always an unfair advantage. Segregating the servers isn't either, the playerbase is small enough.

Also as a personal observation, as I noted in the other thread I tend to play fast short range ambush mechs where I sneak around from behind and assassinate missile boats etc. A third person cam with its wider field of view (and view of the mech's rear) would pretty much end this already-risky playstyle and force me to sit in the back sniping which is boring.

[Agent of Change]

Ozzalin, on 14 November 2012 - 11:15 AM, said:

WRONG.
More problems created as for camera views on 3rd person which is higher
More problems as for cheaters who can peak-high altitude mode, around all buildings.
More problems as for 3rd targeting system vs 1st one
More problems as for the entire mechanics of the game spliting the player base in half.
More problems as an easy mode 3rd vs original 1st aren't compatible at all in the same game room... etc etc.
The list is very long...

Unless you're a cheater yourself, and do not care about the state of the game as it is.
Then you'll probably play your messed up game with other kids...
As the mature community is about to leave in mass.

Lol, methinks you missed the joke. (your comment was in response to a pretty funny and sarcastic post i'll let you figure it out)

[Zylo]

I do not support the addition of 3rd person view in any form in MWO.

Gameplay balance will be the big issue here.

If new players have trouble learning the game give them a good system to learn the game in 1st person view.


I do not have any plans to spend any additional money on this game if 3rd person view is added as I feel the next step after 3rd person view would be adding the World of Tanks pay-to-win system since this 3rd person view addition seems clearly targeted at world of tanks players.

Edited by Zylo, 14 November 2012 - 11:26 AM.

[Vassago Rain]

Worst idea ever.
I was assured this wouldn't ever be considered. You sold me the game on the basis it wouldn't turn into pop-tarting online, or feature any of the past mistakes.

Every promise you've made seems to be broken whenever you feel like it now, and while I can understand limiting 'free' energy weapons through heatsinks, and whatever, this is simply a critical error. You won't attract new players with it, the players you have will be split further, and you're still not deliveing any content or bug fixes. I hear you got a lot of refunding done over dubs not being actual dubs. Imagine what will happen with this looming.

Personally, I have absolutely zero interest in big ego indies promising things they don't deliver, or playing MW4: the second coming, which it was generally agreed upon wouldn't ever see the light of day.

Is this a shareholding pleasing move? Because as admitted 'gamers,' you should know what this will do to your game.

[Kaox Veed]

No thanks, I like the simulator feel of the game.

Being in an Atlas and not being able to see the Jenner at your feet is a great thing, third person view would kill things like this.

[Ozzalin]

Adeptis, on 14 November 2012 - 11:19 AM, said:

You don't quite know what Alt-F4 does, do you buddy? Go ahead, give it a try.

Yes well... didn't see that F4, i stopped at: Yes implement 3rd person... hehe...hehehehe.
Ok sorry... i'll auto-torture myself for the next hour.

[Neonin]

I'm sure the reasons I'm going to say no have been said already in this thread (to be honest after the fourth or fifth post that I agreed with I stopped reading) but I shall add my voice anyway.

Adding in a third-person view is treating the symptom and not the cause. A simple, voiced tutorial mission available to anyone with a quick click of a button from the Mechbay that loads and runs on the client side with a bog standard mech (no choice needed) would, in my view, be much more effective in teaching people how to pilot their mech properly.

The problems with third-person have been detailed plenty, and I experienced them in the original Planetside where it was used to hide behind scenery and still see what was coming when you wouldn't be able to see it if you were in first-person view. This meant anyone not using that tactic was at a disadvantage in those situations.

If you really want to add something in quickly to help people new to the game, add a "Lock torso to leg orientation" toggle so their mouse actually moves the whole mech.

[Salient]

Look at all this outrage, it probably guarantees PGI WILL do it, since they figure the opposite of whatever we say will earn them the most money. And they are probably right.

[Xelrah]

No thanks.

[Okie135]

quasihuman, on 14 November 2012 - 10:51 AM, said:

No, please don't. Give new players a training mode that is separate from the main game instead so they can learn to play without getting killed.

<-This

Making a game approachable to new players does not mean that it has to act like all other games. Working on some sort of in game tutorial would be far more desirable than implementing 3rd person views. Please consider that when you started this project you stated that this was supposed to feel like a mech simulator.