3696 replies to this topic

[Kunae]

No.

Don't do it, nor any version of it.

There is no compromise which would be acceptable. None.

[SteelRat]

I don't like the idea of 3rd person personally. I would suggest 2 options to be implemented first to see if it helps the new player experience.

1) The option to lock your torso. Let the new players get used to just moving the mech as a single entity. Make this an on/off option similar to rearm and repair. As they become more capable, then they can start to learn to twist and learn the advantages they gain from it.

2) The option to lock your arms. I find new players don't understand the combination of torso twist and moving arms. Again, and on/off option.

Lowering the learning curve to start, no twist, locked arms. Once I figure that out, I can add twist, ok, get twist figured, then I can up it again and free my arms up. Don't just totally change the gameplay to suit new players, ease them into more complex gameplay. Have tutorials specifically aimed at torso twist and then another explaining how the arms work. As a new player to the whole BT universe, it can be a bit overwhelming, not only learning your mech movement, but dealing with heat and the different roles each mech plays, and right now, they are being throw into the deep end and told, swim or tuff luck.

If that still doesn't help the new players, then maybe 3rd Person is an option to consider but I don't think PGI has given 100% effort to making new players comfortable with the game, yet.

[Mr 144]

My 9 year old prefers 3rd person in MW4...doesn't like MWO, but not because of 1st person, but because of no training grounds. (honestly here..bright kid, gaming family) he just wants to learn to drive and mange weapons without getting dead quick.

My 12 year old prefers 1st person in MW4...isn't real into MWO yet..not enough mechs and maps for him.

My 15 year old adapted to MWO in minutes, much faster than even myself with years of MW experience...hates 3rd person with a passion..that's for RPGs.

If your target audience is younger than 8-year olds...then I guess you have a point PGI. C'mon..it's the FPS generation! the ability of gamers to adapt is huge if given ANY type of atmosphere to do it in safety.

No, No, No, No, and No to 3rd person. Yet another solution in search of a problem.

Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, and Yes to a training ground to learn piloting, weapon grouping, weapon characteristics, and heat maneagement.

Geesh...an 8-year old called it within minutes of playing, and we need to go though all of this for the professionals to see it?

Mr 144

[Warrax the Chaos Warrior]

I don't think 3rd person view is actually going to accomplish what you think it is, it is not a good way for people how to control the legs and torso of their mech. It doesn't take all that long to learn to maneuver in this game, the only thing that makes it difficult is when people have to try to learn while under fire from more experienced player and while overheating in a trial mech.

Basically, you need a tutorial area where people can learn outside of the stress of combat. Also, I've heard some people say that they would like a center-legs-to-torso button to go along with the center-torso-to-legs button that we already have. A lock-arms-to-torso-reticle toggle might also help the very new.

Edited by Warrax the Chaos Warrior, 14 November 2012 - 11:27 AM.

[WardenWolf]

Okay, a calm-headed post here hopefully!

What is the problem that 3rd person view is supposed to fix? There appear to be two answers in Russ' interview:

- It makes learning control of the mech easier for new players, since they get visual feedback about their torso vs legs.

- It is perceived as necessary in order to increase the player base.

The first issue can be resolved better, I think, by having a training option with a basic, scripted tutorial on mech movement, the HUD, weapons (firing and grouping), the battlegrid, etc. If that isn't implemented soon, then I don't think 3rd person will help enough on its own (though I'll admit it might be better for newbies).

The bigger issue I see there is that if you train them in 3rd person they may never want to change to the 'right' way to control a mech - from the 1st-person view inside your cockpit. It would be like teaching someone to drive on an automatic and then expecting them to just jump over to a stick-shift without any additional teaching. Some might get it, but most people would rather stick with an automatic at that point.

Now as for the second issue, I'm really curious how this has been seen? Are PGI getting a lot of feedback from new players that we aren't seeing on the forums? I've always seen a small but vocal crowd asking for 3rd-person, but it has been the tiny minority (10% or so, from what I've seen) in any polls.

I personally would rather not see important Dev resources going to this feature, but if it has to be implemented for some reason please consider a few options:

- Could be for movement only, and 1st-person could be required for firing?

- Could the camera be fixed to only be behind the mech, preventing seeing behind (just as there is no rear-facing radar)? A fixed-position 3rd-person view like this could limit the ways it could be abused too.

- Separating different view modes is an option, but seems like it would make matchmaking all the harder by splitting the community in two.

- Make sure we don't train new players to use 3rd-person

- Come up with some sort of interactive tutorial, maybe along the lines of this:

http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__1420311

Thanks for your hard work, Devs! Please keep the game great

[Keifomofutu]

If people are having trouble learning to drive you don't need to change the whole feel of the game and alienate your playerbase.

YOU ... NEED ... A ... TUTORIAL

[Salient]

Look at all this outrage, it probably guarantees PGI WILL do it, since they figure the opposite of whatever we say will earn them the most money. And they are probably right.

[F lan Ker]

S!

In short..3rd person view implemented and MWO does not differ in any way from today's FPS shooters. Say goodbye to SIMULATOR. If people are too lazy or incapable to learn how to steer a mech in cockpit view, then they are playing the wrong game. Not everything needs to be a pampering experience filled with instant gratification and buckets of achievement medals...

[Delta 9]

Dumb*** idea! It would split the community! Not another dime! Have a nice day!

[FunkyFritter]

I'm happy to hear that PGI is responding to feedback from newer players. Personally I prefer the first person camera, but I've played enough MW4 to know that third person works fine too. I want to see the game succeed and growing the playerbase is crucial for that, so I feel that you're making the right choice.

The criticism from established fans has been harsh, but know that many of us understand and continue to support you.

[superteds]

If the aim is to stop new people running into walls, simply introduce a training mission (ala MW4's) where you learn the basics of movement and basic Good Ideas like circle-strafing.

DONT simply dumb down the rest of the game as a shortcut

[TrentTheWanderer]

Third-Person view does not provide a real benefit to new players, it causes a reliance on a mechanic which by its very nature is counter to the current design of the game. Implementing this feature would not provide any benefits to the players, and would divide play groups, invalidate valid tactics and promote exploits, waste time and effort on unneeded developmental work, and distract from the very real UI and accessibility issues the game has in its current form. Additionally, this goes against every previous development philosophy and product statement, and invalidates the concept of the product all of the Founders wanted to support with their purchases.

Much simpler than asking what is WRONG with this decision is trying to quantify what is RIGHT about this decision, something anyone appears to be hard-pressed to do.

[SomeoneStrange]

I personally think third person view is a bad idea. The way MWO is shaping up right now, is as a fairly competitive game, where positioning, tactics, and line of sight are absolutely critical. Adding third person view will detract from the current value of maintaining both positioning and line of sight.

I can think of no good way to add this feature without it causing problems - in particular providing a tactical advantage to those who choose to use it.

If the original point of adding 3rd person view is to make the game more accessable to new players, I feel the time spent coding and maintaining this feature would be VASTLY better used on a tutorial mode instead.

Please consider adding a tutorial as an alternative to putting critical gameplay features at risk.

[Kauhava]

Just no. This shouldn't even have to be explained. Damnit. Just go look at the poll on the 28 page thread up on general.

[Khavi Vetali]

Horrible idea. Absolutely horrible. Probably the one decision, if implemented, that could dim my enthusiasm for this game.

Edited by Khavi Vetali, 14 November 2012 - 11:30 AM.

[Alois Hammer]

As I've said in multiple threads, the idea is asinine at best given the "reasoning" Russ used to justify this horrid decision. If new players are having trouble piloting, teach them to pilot. Don't hand them an Easy Button that will only bite them later when they go first-person and still can't pilot their mech. Solve the problem you claim exists, don't use it like a politician for a reason to shoehorn some candy for the casual crowd in then tell us it's to help the nooblets.

"Okay, you've completed your skydiver training course, you should now be ready to take the test and get your driver's license."
-facepalm-

http://mwomercs.com/...son-its-coming/ -see poll, it says it all.

Edited by Alois Hammer, 14 November 2012 - 11:30 AM.

[Squidhead Jax]

Josef Nader, on 14 November 2012 - 11:17 AM, said:

Mechwarrior 3 solved this problem nicely. The default paper doll was a 3D representation of your mech that mirrored all your movements. If your torso twisted in the game, the 3D doll twisted to show you how you were positioned. It gave you a good sense of your mech's orientation without all of the negatives that come with a third person view. It's a great feature, I think, and insanely useful for new players to understand how their mech is behaving.

I think this guy has the right of it.

[Atayu]

Constructive feedback ok.
Negative affects of adding 3rd person view.
1.current combat balance no longer works.
2.Pop shooting will be the same problem it has been in every mechwarrior that has offered 3rd person views.
3.It removes the sim factor of the game completely.
4.is no longer the game most of us supported getting made at all.
5.We were told multable times there would be no 3rd person view by devs,(before we invested money)
6.There are many things that need added to game this is not 1.

Positive affects of 3rd person view.
1.Some kids that can not understand basic game concepts will have a eisier time playing (although they will not buy stuff because there mommy will not let the use the credit card)

The negative effects list could be added to all day long the positive well think i got that one as full as it is going to get. If they really think this is a good idea they should look at some of the poll's on there own forums having 20 to 1 people against the 3rd person view.

[pesco]

Ahahaha, lame.

[BeezleBug]

PGI said there will be NO 3rd Person view. If PGI will do this, the Game is dead 4 all the Founders. PGI sell this game with the promise that there will be no 3rd Person. What the hack, this game go more and more in the direction of WOT. This is not a good way!
Make a good Tutorial for this game. This will do it for new players.
PGI will suicide this Game with 3rd Person.
FIx the Bugs, Netcode, Mechlab, Engine,etc...Always new bull... and the old stuff is not working.
Make a Game for the Fan´s of Battletech. PGI will need the Fan base to go on with the game. If the game is good the people will come, play and spend money.