258 replies to this topic

[Least Action Jackson]

AC2's are not dangerous at all. Whenever somebody starts targeting me with AC2's, it's almost always a death sentence for them. I just core them real quick so my cockpit will stop shaking, and then laugh at them for being ridiculous and move on.

I would really like to see AC2's turned into a viable weapon by having their weight reduced (e.g. so scouts can have a ballistic weapon that doesn't slow them down so much that they are a walking coffin), and getting rid of some of that annoying cockpit shake. It doesn't affect my ability to shoot straight, it just irritates me and makes the game that much less enjoyable. It is also absurd in light of the lack of shake due to any of the larger AC's. AC2's should be a de facto machine gun, and the machine gun should be removed as a waste of space.

[toastboy]

Dual AC/2s are what makes the Cicada 3C, a chassis apparently everyone else seems to hate, my favorite mech in the game right now. Protecting my teammates in my little medium by harassing the **** out of their usually heavy snipers is the most fun I've had in this game. I've never felt OP though. I try to reduce the damage the enemy does by ******* with their aim. This seems to be the purpose of the weapon. Nerfing the shake effect to something where you can reliably aim defeats the purpose of the weapon. Also you have to make the choice whether to chainfire your ACs or not, if you do you probably miss more shots, thus do less damage but potentially shake the enemy's aim more often, if you don't you give the enemy more time to aim their shots but probably do more damage. This inherently helps balancing the gun IMO. I for example usually don't chainfire and in my best game did around 550 damage. Average on a good game where neither side gets stomped probably is 350-400, which I think isn't shabby at all. I do much less though if there are lots of lights of course. Also those numbers include MPL damage when I've fired my 300 rounds. BUT at the range at which you generally use the AC/2 your enemies still get to decide on which torso they want to get hit (after the first 2-4 rounds hit at least), which results in the 2nd biggest damage spread after LRMs.
TL,DR Cicada 3C is amazing, if you get cored by AC/2s you should be ashamed, if PGI reduce the shake effect it negates the purpose of the weapon.

[Terror Teddy]

Trauglodyte, on 26 November 2012 - 11:37 AM, said:

This is incorrect. A Cicada with max armor (-2 points), cockpit, life support, sensors, and gyro weighs exactly 10.5 tons. At 6 tons per, you can put in 4 (24 tons), 4 tons of armor w/ CASE (4.5 tons), and still have enough weight for a 100 rating engine allowing you to move 40.5 kph or 43.5 kph after speed tweak. Sure, an Atlas will outrun you but you can still fit it on the 3C and move.

Hmm...

Is it spacey enough for an XL engine?

[Earthtalker]

All this DAKKA and so little time. Whoever shall I shake next......

[INTnWIS]

No, AC2 is just fine.

[Ax2Grind]

wow. AC2 is OP now? No offense to the poster but that's pretty funny. I should start a thread each week for each weapon and call it OP. Next week...The Flamer! NERF IT!!!

[Blaank]

Guys, this was started Nov 14. It's outdated. So stop responding like he said it yesterday.

[Shiney]

From the last 2 weeks...

AC2's are OP, gauss is OP, SRMs are OP, LRM are OP, SSRM are OP, Lasers are OP, AC20s are OP..

... PPCs are UP, MGs are UP, flamers are UP, AC10s and LBX10's are UP...

I'd agree, the first line are useful and potentially deadly, the bottom line could do with a boost. I like that lots of weapons are OP in the right situation, with the right pilot, with the right build against the right opponent. There's now plenty of builds/weapons getting on the battlefield that kill you. Good work PGI, rock paper scissors.

[SgtMaster]

Shiney, on 27 November 2012 - 01:42 AM, said:

From the last 2 weeks...

AC2's are OP, gauss is OP, SRMs are OP, LRM are OP, SSRM are OP, Lasers are OP, AC20s are OP..

... PPCs are UP, MGs are UP, flamers are UP, AC10s and LBX10's are UP...

I'd agree, the first line are useful and potentially deadly, the bottom line could do with a boost. I like that lots of weapons are OP in the right situation, with the right pilot, with the right build against the right opponent. There's now plenty of builds/weapons getting on the battlefield that kill you. Good work PGI, rock paper scissors.

i agree, balanced is almost on key, may required a "LITTLE TWEAK" here and there,
please do not use the sledge hammer.
Doing one thing at a time, not 2...

do not turn Gauss, PPC and LRM into machine guns, flamers and fireworks or vice versa...

Edited by SgtMaster, 27 November 2012 - 01:56 AM.

[LennStar]

The AC/2 OP?

Yeah, right. And the PPC, too.

Why you ask?

Because I once nearly killed a LRM cat in one go in my AC/2 + ERPCC Raven.
But that was because the cat didn't move and instead fired the LRM at me. So I got 3 PPC hits an the same-time-amount of AC/2 hits.
Unfortunately it was the side torso not the center that was done. *sigh*
But you know, standing 10 seconds still under fire... perhaps THAT was the reason?
(Cat prop thought I could not spit out more then 2 ERPPC hits - but I can 3PPC+constant AC/2 fire and with the third PPC shot I'm at 96% when standing still in Forest.)
Because a sideways moving target and an AC/2... I hit better with the PPC then.

[Goit]

*playing game, get cockpit shaken* " oh god must be an ac20 *press 'r'* oh its some mongoloid using an ac2 *ignore* they pack absolutely no punch or threat in my eyes

[Mechteric]

I bet the OP is really a clever SSRM boater who wants to redirect the nerf focus elsewhere

[Kraven Kor]

Goit, on 27 November 2012 - 03:07 AM, said:

*playing game, get cockpit shaken* " oh god must be an ac20 *press 'r'* oh its some mongoloid using an ac2 *ignore* they pack absolutely no punch or threat in my eyes

4x AC/2 will kill you, and faster than you might think. Please, by all means, ignore me. I need all the help I can get padding my K/D ratio

Averaging 400 damage, 2 kills per match with the Dakkaphract

[Purlana]

Screen shaking as a whole should be removed.

[Dethl0k]

AC builds are so easy to beat they cant aim properly and just because your cockpit shakes its a illusion your crosshairs dont move in game eveytime i see a ac build i always think easy kill

[Kraven Kor]

Dethl0k, on 27 November 2012 - 09:24 AM, said:

AC builds are so easy to beat they cant aim properly and just because your cockpit shakes its a illusion your crosshairs dont move in game eveytime i see a ac build i always think easy kill

They can aim properly, or at least most good ballistics players can.

I know I'm probably 75% to 85% accurate with 4x AC/2.

[Khobai]

Again... this is a boating issue.

One or two medium lasers is fine. Seven medium lasers is overpowered.
One or two SSRM2s is fine. Six streaks is overpowered.
One or two AC/2s is fine. Four AC/2s is overpowered.

The problem is that using multiple weapons of the same type is inarguably better than using multiple weapons of different types. The solution is not to nerf individual weapons, but rather to implement a diminishing returns penalty when boating multiple weapons of the same type.

For example:
One AC/2: should have a cooldown of 0.5
Two AC/2s: each should have a cooldown of 0.53 (-5% penalty)
Three AC/2s: each should have a cooldown of 0.55 (-10% penalty)
Four AC/2s: each should have a cooldown of 0.58 (-15% penalty)

Edited by Khobai, 27 November 2012 - 09:40 AM.

[Kraven Kor]

Khobai, on 27 November 2012 - 09:33 AM, said:

The problem is that using multiple weapons of the same type is inarguably better than using multiple weapons of different types. The solution is not to nerf individual weapons, but rather to implement a diminishing returns penalty when boating multiple weapons of the same type.

Eh, not really. Or, not from where I sit, at least.

Boating is great, so long as you control the engagement. Boating fails when the other guy controls the engagement and you can't use your schtick. Streak SRM boat that uses cover to get in close will own face; Streak SRM boat that has, say, a 4x LL build that can keep pace with it and hold it at range won't fair as well. LRM boats own if the enemy tries an open approach or fails to use cover, dies to a fast mover that gets under its range. Gauss boats rock your world at range, but don't fair well against multiple fast moving brawlers.

It is all about Tactic / Countertactic. A well-rounded build will be better able to handle or achieve a surprise tactic or counter multiple boats, but just lacks the raw damage capabilities to fair well in a one-on-one fight against a more dedicated build.

I don't think there should be any penalties for boating. Rather, maps should ensure that clever players can use terrain to counter boats, thus making boats suffer in situations they cannot control.

[JimSuperBleeder]

I have a CTF with quad AC2 and a ML, with mad DHS and more ammo than god.

I use this as a support build. They have a huge range so I'll just stay back and unload on people. Knock back or not when you're getting bombarded by cannon fire it creates that psychological effect that you want and they usually **** pretty quick.

Personally I just enjoy the sound of loud automatic cannon fire.

[Khobai]

Quote

I don't think there should be any penalties for boating.

All weapon balance problems in this game are derived from boating. There should absolutely be penalties for boating.

1) Why were small and medium lasers nerfed? Because of Swaybacks and Awesomes boating them.
2) Why were LRMs nerfed? Because of Atlases and Awesomes boating them.
3) Why were UAC/5s nerfed? Because of the Catraphract 4X boating two UAC/5s and two AC5s (or two AC2s)
4) Why are streaks being nerfed? Because of Catapults boating them.

Every single time a weapon has been nerfed its been in response to a mech boating that weapon. So saying boating isnt the problem is completely false. It is the single biggest problem with weapon balance.

Edited by Khobai, 27 November 2012 - 09:58 AM.