2926 replies to this topic

[Haxx0r]

Pando, on 09 January 2013 - 01:04 PM, said:

Wow, you didn't listen in far enough! I believe if you listen from 16:00-25:00 you should hear it mentioned.

You are welcome

yes they did that is true but the plan sounds fine for me.
but i really cant understand why ppl are confused becasue of the torso

[Pando]

Haxx0r, on 09 January 2013 - 01:08 PM, said:

yes they did that is true but the plan sounds fine for me.
but i really cant understand why ppl are confused becasue of the torso

Well, I'm glad I helped you find what the OP was all about! Next time as they mentioned I would strongly urge you to read the OP before posting.

Edited by Pando, 09 January 2013 - 01:29 PM.

[Sean von Steinike]

AdamBaines, on 09 January 2013 - 12:35 PM, said:

My god....this thread wont die.......

Because the threat of the absurdly stupid and moronic 3rd person play hasn't been removed yet.

[Pando]

Sean von Steinike, on 09 January 2013 - 02:44 PM, said:

Because the threat of the absurdly stupid and moronic 3rd person play hasn't been removed yet.

Explain how 3rd person view is a threat. Also, how 3rd person view is absurdly stupid and moronic.

[Gulinborsti]

Pando, on 09 January 2013 - 10:11 AM, said:

<snip> Didn't you listen to or read either the NGNG podcast or the text version of said statements containing WHY it wouldn't be an advantage. Or, are you just ignorant to the fact it's not an advantage if EVERYONE who wants 3rd person view, perhaps que's for 3rd person view SEPARATE of those que'ing for 1st.

I followed all this statements, still I don't believe it until we get more then vague plans without any hard facts about it will work.

However, I am also not a friend of the option to chose between 1st or 3rd person games. This thread is already full of comments on the bad influence this *might* have on the game and community.

Without any more and usefull information on the plans to implement 3rd person view in an acceptable way I'll stick to my "NO!" to 3rd person view until I am proven wrong.

[Pando]

Gulinborsti, on 09 January 2013 - 03:00 PM, said:

I followed all this statements, still I don't believe it until we get more then vague plans without any hard facts about it will work.

However, I am also not a friend of the option to chose between 1st or 3rd person games. This thread is already full of comments on the bad influence this *might* have on the game and community.

Without any more and usefull information on the plans to implement 3rd person view in an acceptable way I'll stick to my "NO!" to 3rd person view until I am proven wrong.

Proven wrong in which respect. I'm ready to entertain that thought.

Edited.

Edited by Pando, 09 January 2013 - 03:04 PM.

[Sean von Steinike]

Pando, on 09 January 2013 - 02:59 PM, said:

Explain how 3rd person view is a threat. Also, how 3rd person view is absurdly stupid and moronic.

If you can't figure it out on your own, you are a fan of such absurdity.

[Pando]

Sean von Steinike, on 09 January 2013 - 03:09 PM, said:

If you can't figure it out on your own, you are a fan of such absurdity.

If you can't defend your arguments you're obviously one of the blind "NO NO NO" fan-boy's.

[Sean von Steinike]

Pando, on 09 January 2013 - 05:17 PM, said:

If you can't defend your arguments you're obviously one of the blind "NO NO NO" fan-boy's.

There is already plenty of explanations, in this thread. You refuse to acknowledge them. I don't need to rehash the same points that have been made a hundred times over. The only reason that really matters is they said they WOULD NOT put absurd 3rd person in the game. I never would have bought this had that not been one of the prime selling points. Had it 3rd person, no way would I have bought it. Enough of that moron, 3rd person, garbage play in other games.

[MavRCK]

I've said this before, I will abuse 3rd person view and make life hell for PUGs - so much that the premade vs pug issue looks like it never was an issue.

[Pando]

Sean von Steinike, on 09 January 2013 - 08:06 PM, said:

There is already plenty of explanations, in this thread. You refuse to acknowledge them. I don't need to rehash the same points that have been made a hundred times over. The only reason that really matters is they said they WOULD NOT put absurd 3rd person in the game. I never would have bought this had that not been one of the prime selling points. Had it 3rd person, no way would I have bought it. Enough of that moron, 3rd person, garbage play in other games.

I'm not reading through seventy four pages of stupidity. I would rather read your few lines then make you appear an imbecile regarding this issue. So, here we go. From a business standpoint your view "no growth" is just stupid. You're clinging to an ideology that people only enjoy 1st person perspectives. That is wrong. The most successful games in the history of gaming offered 3rd person to each and every player as a choice. I am not touching the subject of "advantage" because that topic simply isn't relevant considering the original posters comments reflected in NGNG podcast devs 'n beer #2. MechWarrior: Online has decided after offering a 1st person exclusive experience that expanding to a 3rd person without effecting the 1st person players experience is possible and would more than likely show improved registered / active players. That is why they've considered the option going against what they had initially stated. I don't think that was an easy pill to swallow either.

**EDIT** Waiting for how it's a "threat."

While we're on the subject of 3rd person and you're arguing it's "garbage". You're essentially saying "I don't want new players, that option is garbage even if it won't effect me." Well, I don't think I need to comment on that again.

"No way I would have bought it had it had 3rd person."

Well, frankly I'm willing to bet... If 3,000+ members who say " I wouldn't have bought it, if it had 3rd person " were re-funded. Then, the founders program is re-launched with 3rd person advocated for new players as "training-wheels" through advertising...those 3,000 refunded members would seem like a "drop in the bucket" comparatively speaking.

Fact: The audience of players that enjoy 3rd person is much greater than the audience of players that enjoy 1st person. The audience of players that enjoy both is larger than the audience that enjoys ONLY 1st. The 1st person exclusive minority should not dictate growth for a major project / developing game.

To all;

You keep referencing that post where NO 3rd person received like 2500-3,000 votes for NO. Well, you're not taking into account the thousands of accounts registered that are in-active because 3rd person wasn't included. People who created an account. Downloaded the game. Tried the game. Was un-satisfied so they sent support an email with "why" and simply left the game.

Even if you put the 3,000 forum troll votes up against the registered active player-base it's more than likely STILL a loud minority.

Edited by Pando, 10 January 2013 - 08:11 AM.

[Dax Legend]

3rd person view help peoples to see who is behind.
I think that will change the game drasticly, and everyone will drop 1st person because of the advantage of 3rd person view.

If they add this option, that just give MWO looks like all others MMO and remove the "SIM" feeling.
It's ok for me to add this option ONLY if in this view HUD will be disabled, so no one can lock or fire while in this view.

[Rustybuckets]

AirVengeance, on 16 November 2012 - 03:13 PM, said:

It will affect everyone that chooses not to cheat at a sim game. 3rd person get's activated I will drop this game.

Hate to be a hater, but See Ya!
If you played the other MW games you DO KNOW that 3rd Person was an option in those games as well.

[Fut]

Pando, on 10 January 2013 - 08:05 AM, said:

Fact: The audience of players that enjoy 3rd person is much greater than the audience of players that enjoy 1st person. The audience of players that enjoy both is larger than the audience that enjoys ONLY 1st. The 1st person exclusive minority should not dictate growth for a major project / developing game.

Care to back this up with some.form of evidence, or should we all just take your word for it?

As it is now I've seen way more people saying that they dislike the idea of a 3rd person view than I have seen people saying that they want it... Which brings me to this:

Pando, on 10 January 2013 - 08:05 AM, said:

You keep referencing that post where NO 3rd person received like 2500-3,000 votes for NO. Well, you're not taking into account the thousands of accounts registered that are in-active because 3rd person wasn't included. People who created an account. Downloaded the game. Tried the game. Was un-satisfied so they sent support an email with "why" and simply left the game.

Even if you put the 3,000 forum troll votes up against the registered active player-base it's more than likely STILL a loud minority.

Pure speculation.
I can just as easily claim that there are thousands of registered users playing who would quit instantly if a 3rd person view came out, they just don't happen to be on the forums to voice this concern of theirs.
See, everybody can speculate.
(I also like how you call the thousands of "No" votes "troll votes" purely because it goes against your opinion)

You can't guess at what other people are thinking if they're not voicing their opinions. Unfortunately, if these thousands of registered users aren't going to speak up, their opinions can't be counted for or against 3rd person. The only thing we can count is the number of opinions we see here.
It's like voting in the real world, those who choose to remain silent have no choice but to go along with what the majority decides.

(Besides all that ****, a person would have to be an ***** to download a game that clearly calls itself a "first-person, team-based, tactical [game]" only to get upset when it turns out to be... *GASP* FIRST PERSON game. Just sayin')

Edited by Fut, 10 January 2013 - 09:16 AM.

[Pando]

Fut, on 10 January 2013 - 09:14 AM, said:

Care to back this up with some.form of evidence, or should we all just take your word for it?

As it is now I've seen way more people saying that they dislike the idea of a 3rd person view than I have seen people saying that they want it... Which brings me to this:



Pure speculation.
I can just as easily claim that there are thousands of registered users playing who would quit instantly if a 3rd person view came out, they just don't happen to be on the forums to voice this concern of theirs.
See, everybody can speculate.
(I also like how you call the thousands of "No" votes "troll votes" purely because it goes against your opinion)

You can't guess at what other people are thinking if they're not voicing their opinions. Unfortunately, if these thousands of registered users aren't going to speak up, their opinions can't be counted for or against 3rd person. The only thing we can count is the number of opinions we see here.
It's like voting in the real world, those who choose to remain silent have no choice but to go along with what the majority decides.

(Besides all that ****, a person would have to be an ***** to download a game that clearly calls itself a "first-person, team-based, tactical [game]" only to get upset when it turns out to be... *GASP* FIRST PERSON game. Just sayin')

I like speculation. I'm well within my opinion to speculate. Waitin' for someone to comment on the rest of my statement aside from speculation.

As far as the "fact" comment goes. If you were to take the number of players in MMO's and shooters that offer some variation of 3rd person and pit them against games that have first person ONLY....first person numbers would be insignificant in direct comparison.

For speculation, take into consideration these few...

Some games that have a 3rd person perspective in some form or another.

World of Warcraft
World of Tanks
Battlefield 3
Rift
ArmA 2 & expansion packs & mods like DayZ
PlanetSide 1 & 2
This list could go on, and on, and on and on.

Now, someone else list some games that are 1st person exclusive. Then, let's speculate on player totals for each game. Combine them. Then compare.

[Jakob Knight]

You know what the argument that the Devs are using that 'it will bring in players who can't handle 1st person driving' brought to mind? That all they are doing is setting up players who don't have the skills to succeed to be more targets on the battlefield for the players who can.

I imagine it similar to if the US Army decided it would redesign the Abrams main battle tank to eliminate complex controls so they can get less-competent tank drivers in the field....


____________________


Vehicle motor pool, 2012 Hours, M1A0.5 Abrams-Light Battletank 514:

-Platoon Sergeant, shouting to the Tank Commander: "Hudson! You have to use the throttle when you want to move, not just the two handles!"

-Tank Commander: "Oh, okay!"

Sound of machinery in motion

-Platoon Sergeant: "No, no! You're turning the turret, not the tank!"

-Tank Commander: "But, I can see the door right in front of me!"

-Platoon Sergeant, exasperated: "That's because you are in the turret, and looking through the target sighting system, you moron!"

-Tank Commander: "So?"

-Platoon Sergeant: "Remember the training video? You can move one way and shoot the other!"

-Tank Commander: "This is too complicated!"

-Platoon Sergeant: "No, you can do it! Just pop out of the tank a minute, and look!"

Hatch opens, Tank Commander sticks his head out and looks around in bafflement before his face breaks out in a grin of amazement.

-Tank Commander: "Wow! Okay, I got this, no problem!"

-Platoon Sergeant: "Okay then, get back inside and turn that thing around!"

Tank Commander shuts hatch, sound of grinding gears, then rumbling as the tank moves.

-Platoon Sergeant, happier: "That's it! Now, carefully move the tank out the door with the throttle!"

Sound of the tank rolling forwards, leaving the vehicle shed and stopping.

-Platoon Sergeant, almost screaming: "What is it now, Hudson?!"

-Tank Commander: "There's another tank out here, in the middle of the road!"

-Platoon Sergeant: "Well, tell whoever it is to get out of the way! And use your IFF to ID that guy!"

-Tank Commander: "They aren't answering. Wait, where's that button?? Why'd they have to make this thing so complicated?!?"

-Platoon Sergeant: "It's under your thumb! It's the only button there! Wait, wait! Do you recognize that other tank?"

-Tank Commander: "Hold on, I can't see him. I think I unplugged the tv-thingee! I'll just pop out of the hatch and look!"

Sound of hatch opening.

-Tank Commander: "Oh, okay! I think that's one of them bad tanks you were telling us about! I wonder if he's having the same problems??"

Booming sound, followed by a streak of air. Tank 514 explodes.

Platoon Sergeant: "Grrr. Why do we lose so many new tank jocks these days??"



____________________


Yeeeah. Adding third person and getting alot of people who find just driving the 'mech too hard into the game will make those players so happy when they have to deal with the battlefield and be really just big targets for the normal players that they'll stay past the first three hopeless battles.

I pity the teams who find themselves saddled with such players.

Edited by Jakob Knight, 10 January 2013 - 10:24 AM.

[Pando]

Jakob Knight, on 10 January 2013 - 10:07 AM, said:

You know what the argument that the Devs are using that 'it will bring in players who can't handle 1st person driving' brought to mind? That all they are doing is setting up players who don't have the skills to succeed to be more targets on the battlefield for the players who can.

Yeeeah. Adding third person and getting alot of people who find just driving the 'mech too hard into the game will make those players so happy when they have to deal with the battlefield and be really just big targets for the normal players that they'll stay past the first three hopeless battles.

I pity the teams who find themselves saddled with such players.

Those players are that bad?

[Jakob Knight]

Pando, on 10 January 2013 - 10:16 AM, said:

Those players are that bad?

If they are changing the game because they can't even drive the mech, how are those players going to handle combat? How would -you- like those players behind you as you advance into the enemy?

Edited by Jakob Knight, 10 January 2013 - 10:20 AM.

[Fut]

Pando, on 10 January 2013 - 09:23 AM, said:

As far as the "fact" comment goes. If you were to take the number of players in MMO's and shooters that offer some variation of 3rd person and pit them against games that have first person ONLY....first person numbers would be insignificant in direct comparison.

Agreed, if you were to do this you would most likely find that 3rd person games have more players.
However, that doesn't necessarily mean that the camera angle is dictating the popularity of the game. It could simply mean that there are more games out there that offer 3rd person views, or it could mean that there is one insanely popular game that's bumping up the numbers in favour of the 3rd person side (*cough cough* WoW *cough cough*).

So your comparison/idea/speculation here has no real meaning to it.

But we both like to speculate, so no harm done... as long as we all agree that it's not actually concrete evidence in support of 3rd person views in games.

[Pando]

Jakob Knight, on 10 January 2013 - 10:20 AM, said:

If they are changing the game because they can't even drive the mech, how are those players going to handle combat? How would -you- like those players behind you as you advance into the enemy?

That's a simple question to answer.

First off, I would rather those players have an easier opportunity to learn how to effectively stomp in their mech' before joining the "bread n' butter" of MWO's experience IE; first person.

Secondly, I would normally find myself within a group of skilled players. That being said I would rather those learning players locate themselves behind me because I enjoy leading by example. How the "pub" player handles him/herself in battle does not concern me, because I always group up.

Lastly, I think you're reading to much into this. It's quite possibly a learning tool. Training wheels. How are they going to handle combat? Well, we won't know until we see them on the battlefield. Every game has its "hard knocks" before you're the cream of the crop. MWO won't be any different in that respect.

Edited by Pando, 10 January 2013 - 10:44 AM.