2926 replies to this topic

[Kildahri Ablood]

Armageddon, on 16 November 2012 - 03:11 PM, said:

I would absolutely & completely THRILLED to get a 3rd person view in MWO!!! Wow! I am so excited this is a possibility now! Lacking a 3rd person view was one of my biggest complaints in MWO.

I TOTALLY AGREE!! Making sure my PC is a graphics beast is any gamer's given right. In line with that notion, I can think of no better way to let the beast off the leash, than to play in a heavy engagement session in MWO.....IN 3RD PERSON! MWO 3rd person option missing from the game, is my only and main complaint about the game as well! So far, i have had to get my 3rd person MW fix from the short "death" cutscenes! And if the non-supporters of 3rd person option are allowed to make the decision for the rest of us, then I don't see why it would be too difficult to create some 3rd person ONLY game servers. Am i wrong here? It would be much like the big MMO RPG gaming environs, that separate players who do not like to engage in Player VS Player battles, etc.

[Suskis]

3rd person view should only be used with ejection when your mech is destroyed. Now it makes no sense to let you see your mech exploding from nobody's perspective as we have now.

[Adrienne Vorton]

ChaosAvenger0, on 12 January 2013 - 12:52 PM, said:

The other night I was PUGing an assault on Frozen City. I ran through the tunnel, dropped down into the gully and quickly ran out behind some buildings. There was an enemy Stalker and a Dragon hiding between these buildings providing LRM support so I started hammering them in the backs with SRMs at close range (Catapult A1). First the Stalker and then the Dragon, who was oblivious to my strike on the Stalker beside him. A good chunk of the enemy force noticed me at this point and concentrated on me, I didn't last long. However, I got their backs turned to the rest of my team just over the ridge. We won.

3rd person view would have been a total game changer. It would not have allowed me to make my sneak attack. The Stalker would have 'seen' me behind him, the Dragon would have been able to 'see' the fireworks of my strikes on the Stalker. Assuming they didn't see me, on the peripheral, exiting the tunnel. These Mechwarriors would all have ninja senses.

If implemented anyway, the fix to seperate 3rd from 1st person players would be acceptable. However, I would be afraid of not gaining 'new' players to the more difficult 1st person play style later. There's no incentive

Now in all this discussion (+ personal attacks) the only reasonable argument to implement 3rd person play that I've read repeatedly is for the new players' benefit. They can't pilot and they need visual aides (there are already visual aides on the HUD). Okay sure I agree. But, I have to point out again, I'm afraid most new players will then prefer to stay playing in 3rd person (Mechwarrior easy mode).

I have an idea, because I would prefer that we were all playing the same game, let the new players have 3rd person. We already have an economy boost for new players to help get them into their own mech, why not give them the view advantage as well. Once their ecenomy boost is gone their camera view gets locked down to 1st person. If they can't learn to pilot in 25 matches there's no hope for them anyways.

qfwisdom

[Pantha]

To me, playing in 3rd person view, you would no longer be playing as a 'pilot', but as a robot. It ceases to be Mechwarrior, and becomes.. MechAssault

It would be nice to be able to see your Mech properly in 3D in the Mechlab (without that stupid bright light in the background - which seems to be gone now, thankfully). It would also be nice to be able to 'spec' in 3rd person view, after you die, or see your Mech in 3rd person before the round starts (maybe a zoom into the cockpit effect). But playing in 3rd person view ruins the immersion factor for me

Anyway, to those that say that playing in 3rd person means you couldn't sneak up on someone.. 3rd person isn't the same as having a 360 degree field of vision.. which you actually WOULD have if the game followed the novels

[Pando]

Gremlich Johns, on 11 January 2013 - 02:21 PM, said:

1st person view players will not be playing in servers with 3rd person view players - To paraphrase PGI in a recent NGNG podcast. Therefore, 1st person view preferring players will not have to gripe anymore and the 3rd person view preferring players get their console perspective of the game, hopefully with respawn.

so stop.

this

[AztecD]

this game should be played in 1st person view - inside mech -, if 3rd person would be implemented, it would be a different game and would alienate all of the loyal mw fans that have been waiting for all those years to play MechWarrior again. 3rd person is cheating, you should have limited visibility, you should have to rely on your teammates to get combat awareness on the battlefield, you should be able to get/set up ambushes. 3rd person view has no place in mw in my opinion

[Pando]

AztecD, on 14 January 2013 - 09:43 AM, said:

this game should be played in 1st person view - inside mech -, if 3rd person would be implemented, it would be a different game and would alienate all of the loyal mw fans that have been waiting for all those years to play MechWarrior again. 3rd person is cheating, you should have limited visibility, you should have to rely on your teammates to get combat awareness on the battlefield, you should be able to get/set up ambushes. 3rd person view has no place in mw in my opinion

See this quote. Or, tell me how its cheating. Otherwise, everyone needs to pipe the ignorance down. This "it's an advantage ****" is getting old.

Gremlich Johns, on 11 January 2013 - 02:21 PM, said:

1st person view players will not be playing in servers with 3rd person view players - To paraphrase PGI in a recent NGNG podcast. Therefore, 1st person view preferring players will not have to gripe anymore and the 3rd person view preferring players get their console perspective of the game, hopefully with respawn.

so stop.

Edited by Pando, 14 January 2013 - 09:45 AM.

[Fut]

Oh, I know.
How about an option to play the game with a Bird's Eye View?!?

People would be able to see their mechs, as well as all their team mates. It'd be a lot easier to set up some nice tactics this way. It totally won't ruin the game either, because it'll just be an option. If people don't want to use it, they don't have to use it.

Why shouldn't everybody be allowed to play the game in any view they feel like?

/Sarcasm

Pando, on 14 January 2013 - 09:44 AM, said:

See this quote. Or, tell me how its cheating. Otherwise, everyone needs to pipe the ignorance down. This "it's an advantage ****" is getting old.

IF a 3rd person view was made an option, and IF people could use 3rd person view in a game where others are using 1st person - it would be a huge advantage for those using 3rd person... Thus the whole "cheating" thing... Although, it wouldn't be "cheating", more like just "Cheesing".... Heh.. Get it? Funny, eh?

Of course, there's a lot of "IFs" involved in that.

Edited by Fut, 14 January 2013 - 09:49 AM.

[Pando]

Fut, on 14 January 2013 - 09:47 AM, said:

Oh, I know.
How about an option to play the game with a Bird's Eye View?!?

People would be able to see their mechs, as well as all their team mates. It'd be a lot easier to set up some nice tactics this way. It totally won't ruin the game either, because it'll just be an option. If people don't want to use it, they don't have to use it.

Why shouldn't everybody be allowed to play the game in any view they feel like?

/Sarcasm




IF a 3rd person view was made an option, and IF people could use 3rd person view in a game where others are using 1st person - it would be a huge advantage for those using 3rd person... Thus the whole "cheating" thing... Although, it wouldn't be "cheating", more like just "Cheesing".... Heh.. Get it? Funny, eh?

Of course, there's a lot of "IFs" involved in that.

They've already said AND I QUOTE " If you want to play in 1st person, 3rd person will not effect you". Cheesing? Get real.

Edited by Pando, 14 January 2013 - 09:57 AM.

[Fut]

Pando, on 14 January 2013 - 09:53 AM, said:

They've already said AND I QUOTE " If you want to play in 1st person, 3rd person will not effect you". Come again on how it's an advantage?

Hey man, you were asking how/why people thought it would be "cheating" so I was merely explaining the reasoning behind those claims. Besides, I said that it'd be an advantage if they were in the same match. (Which is completely true. In that scenario, there would be an advantage) Of did you miss the fact that I said "if"?

Has PGI specifically stated that 3rd-View Users would be in their own separate games?
If not, it's perfectly acceptable for people to continue to speculate on the issues involved with multi-view MWO.

Edited by Fut, 14 January 2013 - 09:57 AM.

[Pando]

Fut, on 14 January 2013 - 09:56 AM, said:

Hey man, you were asking how/why people thought it would be "cheating" so I was merely explaining the reasoning behind those claims. Besides, I said that it'd be an advantage if they were in the same match. (Which is completely true. In that scenario, there would be an advantage) Of did you miss the fact that I said "if"?

Has PGI specifically stated that 3rd-View Users would be in their own separate games?
If not, it's perfectly acceptable for people to continue to speculate on the issues involved with multi-view MWO.

Did you listen to the podcast? If you had listened you would already know the answer to that question.

[Fut]

Pando, on 14 January 2013 - 09:58 AM, said:

Did you listen to the podcast? If you had listened you would already know the answer to that question.

They claim that the biggest hurdle for new people is torso twisting, so they think that a 3rd person view will help people to understand how it works..Then they went on to say that if the "3rd person camera" is mounted on the Mech's shoulder or hip that it wouldn't give any advantages to those using it.... but how would that help people see their legs move in comparison to their torso? Sounds like they're trying to meet both groups of people half-way, and that'll make it ****** for both groups.

They also said that it'd "be nice" to have an option in the matchmaker to only allow 1st person view... They didn't say that it would definitely be that way though.

So really, you're much heralded podcast boils down to "they don't know how they're going to implement 3rd person views, but chances are that MWO will have different views other than in-cockpit"...

Which really brings us back to the original argument of people for & against 3rd person.
The Devs aren't sure how it'll be handled, so there's no reason to tell people not to voice their opinions about it at this point in time. Everything is really up in the air still.

An "easy" way to solve this whole problem is to change the paperdoll of your own mech into a 3D animated "hologram". It could still change colour to show damages and such, but it could also show the relation of your torso to your legs - making it much easier on new people to see how they twist around when the mouse moves.

Edited by Fut, 14 January 2013 - 10:29 AM.

[Sgt Greyhawk]

To reply to the post that claimed third person view would be much better in regards to viewing the awesomeness of your mech and all it's fire power (I'd quote the post but it's buried somewhere in there deep) is it not enough when in a battle you see a Hunchback de-limbing a Centurion or an Atlas decimating any other mech? As far as using third person view for the purpose of "viewing" your mech it seems pretty pointless when you can see the same thing in any battle.

[Pando]

Fut, on 14 January 2013 - 10:27 AM, said:

They claim that the biggest hurdle for new people is torso twisting, so they think that a 3rd person view will help people to understand how it works..Then they went on to say that if the "3rd person camera" is mounted on the Mech's shoulder or hip that it wouldn't give any advantages to those using it.... but how would that help people see their legs move in comparison to their torso? Sounds like they're trying to meet both groups of people half-way, and that'll make it ****** for both groups.

They also said that it'd "be nice" to have an option in the matchmaker to only allow 1st person view... They didn't say that it would definitely be that way though.

So really, you're much heralded podcast boils down to "they don't know how they're going to implement 3rd person views, but chances are that MWO will have different views other than in-cockpit"...

Which really brings us back to the original argument of people for & against 3rd person.
The Devs aren't sure how it'll be handled, so there's no reason to tell people not to voice their opinions about it at this point in time. Everything is really up in the air still.

An "easy" way to solve this whole problem is to change the paperdoll of your own mech into a 3D animated "hologram". It could still change colour to show damages and such, but it could also show the relation of your torso to your legs - making it much easier on new people to see how they twist around when the mouse moves.

So what you're boiling down to is; There are ****-tons of people crying it will be a blatant advantage however the parameters for that advantage aren't laid out. So an advantage or disadvantage can't be determined/commented on because it has yet to be implemented.

Edited by Pando, 14 January 2013 - 10:36 AM.

[Fut]

Pando, on 14 January 2013 - 10:33 AM, said:

So what you're boiling down to is; There are ****-tons of people crying it will be a blatant advantage however the parameters for that advantage aren't laid out. So an advantage or disadvantage can't be determined/commented on because its yet to be implemented.

No, what I'm boiling it down to is this:
-The Devs seem set on creating another view for MWO, but they haven't stated how it will work. So the debate is still relevant.
- There are some implementations of another view that will effect game play due to advantages in Situational Awareness that said view will give. People should be aware of this. People should speak out against unfair advantages. So the debate is still relevant.
- There are some implementations of another view that will not effect game play (ie. all 3rd person users will queue against only other 3rd person uses). People who do not like unfair advantages should "vote" for this option. Although no debate is required here, people should still voice their opinion.

Until the Devs make a decision with this (hopefully not the completely pointless shoulder/hip mounted cameras, seeing how it doesn't actually address the "issue" that's causing the "need" for another camera angle) opinions should be heard... so the debate is relevant...

So, Pando,
What'd you think of my idea to give MWO a 3D Paperdoll to show Mech damage AND torso positioning while in the 1st person view? Solves the problem of new players being unaware of their mech's mobility while not needing to spend tonnes of resources making new views or the need to split the playerbase up...

[Pando]

Fut, on 14 January 2013 - 10:44 AM, said:

So, Pando,
What'd you think of my idea to give MWO a 3D Paperdoll to show Mech damage AND torso positioning while in the 1st person view? Solves the problem of new players being unaware of their mech's mobility while not needing to spend tonnes of resources making new views or the need to split the playerbase up...

I'm not against the idea however I would personally not want this cluttering my HUD. As far as "Spending tonnes of resources" goes, we've in closed beta testing seen a glitch that put a player outside behind the mech (3rd person view). It was "humerus" and provided no tactical advantage....it probably gave a tactical disadvantage to be honest. I participated in dying often to see what it looked like and marvel at how pretty the mech looked when it stomped around. I couldn't see a damn thing in front of the person I was spectating!

[So who took Pilot Name as a name]

Never thought I'd do something around those lines but... I'll quote myself from a couple pages back in reply to... well, pretty much everything posted since (I guess that's what happens where there's a novel-worth or ranting in a thread).

So who took Pilot Name as a name, on 11 January 2013 - 11:56 AM, said:

While I've seen a thread suggesting several ideas to fix the 3rd person issue, and the one that was closest to a decent idea seemed to give Cbill and EXP penalties... it still doesn't take away from the fact that this would only affect those grinding for mechs and EXP; anyone not carring about cbill or exp couldn't care less about having their bonus taxed at the end of a match, especially if that meant they still won the game (or won the game thanks to having exploited 3rd person).

Which brings me to my solution:

Triggering 3rd person cam causes a % penalty to that mech's damage-dealing capabilities which lingers up to 10 seconds after going BACK in 1st person. Think twice before triggering it, and in battle, it negates its tactical effectiveness as you'd end up dealing as much damage as a Spider in your Atlas when you'd want to shoot that annoying Light/Medium waltzing around you ;p (ok, maybe not THAT bad, but you get the idea).

[Alois Hammer]

Pando, on 14 January 2013 - 09:44 AM, said:

Otherwise, everyone needs to pipe the ignorance down.

Want the ignorance level to drop? Stop posting.

Pando, on 14 January 2013 - 09:53 AM, said:

They've already said AND I QUOTE " If you want to play in 1st person, 3rd person will not effect you". Cheesing? Get real.

The same "they" also said, AND I QUOTE

Garth Erlam, on 16 November 2012 - 02:59 PM, said:

MechWarrior Online is, and will always be, a game focused on 1st person combat in Mechs. That experience is sacrosanct to the classic Mechwarrior experience.

But you go right ahead cherry-picking which of their statements are mere suggestions, to be altered at will, and which are Holy Gospel Written In Stone™ based on which ones you prefer, while demanding that the ignorance stop.

[B B Wolfe]

Oh, god. How is this still alive and still full of people screaming about things that won't affect them at all? Jeebus.

[Nathan Foxbane]

B B Wolfe, on 14 January 2013 - 04:16 PM, said:

Oh, god. How is this still alive and still full of people screaming about things that won't affect them at all? Jeebus.

It is the internet, this is to be expected sadly.