2926 replies to this topic

[Hekalite]

xenoglyph, on 17 November 2012 - 05:45 AM, said:

When they do polls do they talk to every person in the country? That's enough votes to have a very accurate result.

It's like going into a retirement community and polling on the value of medicare benefits. Your sample size will be large enough, but the results will be skewed. It takes a special kind of freak to wade their way through all the vitriol on an internet forum. Most people don't have the time or desire to do so.

[Razorwire]

If you can see behind you, or round corners and scenery with 3rd person, I'm out.
Easy as that.

If it's nubcakes who can't drive, offer them a torso lock toggle.

[Bloody10th]

Send'em back to WoT if they can't pilot a mech. The "omg I have to learn something in order to play this game effectively?!" mentality has almost destroyed gaming entirely. Catering to the lowest common denominator is pretty much the problem in...everything.

[Fosters]

No.

[Tigerchen]

Garth Erlam, on 16 November 2012 - 02:59 PM, said:

Hi Mechwarriors,

So Russ let slip in an interview with No Guts No Galaxy we are looking into a 3rd person view option. It seems a lot of people are unhappy with this, so we’d like to explain our thought process here.

For reference, we also strongly recommend listening to Russ’s comments, as he provides a clear case for our approach.

Over the course of development, we’ve had a huge number of requests for a 3^rd person camera option. At this early stage, it’s something we feel that warrants further analysis, understanding and exploration.

MechWarrior Online is, and will always be, a game focused on 1st person combat in Mechs. That experience is sacrosanct to the classic Mechwarrior experience.

If we find that there is a relevant role for an optional 3^rd person camera mode, then then would simply be an additional option that, if you don’t want it, won’t affect you. Bryan will be writing a detailed Command Chair post on this (he's currently at 40,000 feet, and not by Jump Jetting) with more details. For now, be assured we're acutely aware of past problems with 3rd person view, and will make sure those same issues are thoroughly addressed. We wouldn’t settle for anything less.

Cheers,
The MechWarrior Online Team

In other words, we will see this feature in 2 Weeks, like Open Beta was.

[Dantiger]

Bloody10th, on 17 November 2012 - 06:41 AM, said:

Send'em back to WoT if they can't pilot a mech. The "omg I have to learn something in order to play this game effectively?!" mentality has almost destroyed gaming entirely. Catering to the lowest common denominator is pretty much the problem in...everything.

you really don't want the game to succeed, do you ?

they are trying to make the game more easy to new players without affect the hardcore players
they said that it will not affect us if we don't want... have a little faith in the devs

Edited by Dantiger, 17 November 2012 - 07:02 AM.

[Percival Hasek]

Make your best byuisness call PGI. These empty threats about leaving are just that for 90% of the tiny fist shakers.

Given many of them still don't realize they will never be forced to use, or play against someone using 3rd POV, its not like many of these threatening ragequits are goign to be impacted. If they want to quit because you offer an option they never have to use, good riddance to them. ,

It is a buisness after all. If you are convinced you can bring in more customers, create a broader player base, and bring in more players who eventually enoy and will play in 1st person POV matches as well, go for it.

As fa ras I'm concerned, the 1st person POV is just as 'immersion' breaking: no rear faciing monitors? no proximity warning systems? No radar,IR tracking, MAd detection, no ability to track or detect other than the mark 1 eyeball? 100 ton 'mechs sneaking? Ridiculous.

I've seen lots of drama about some forum poll: thats the type of poll that caters to fanatics. Those who don't care about 3PV aren't going to vote. The goal of 3PV is to attract new players who aren't yet part of the community kinda hard for them to be represented by some halfbaked forum poll.

Edited by Percival Hasek, 17 November 2012 - 07:05 AM.

[Bloody10th]

I'd have more faith, if the game hasn't consistently crashed/lagged/ad nausea since I bought my founder's package. This isn't my first beta test by any stretch--but it's my first 2-3+ month long Alpha test that I've barely had the patience to endure. My final 2 cents on the 3rd person camera--there's an old saying, "Train how you fight." if you want to be effective. Play in third person, you're only going to be good in third person. May as well make this 2 games--one with 3rd person camera, aim assist, xbox controller friendly, ...

[DrBunji]

Seriously, it is incredible how many do not understand how game-breaking 3rd person would be. It is impossible to implement it without it giving the driver more information than one riding in first person. Fact. Even if it just means you can see your atlas' arse, it still means you can see whats hitting you from behind. This would make first person obsolete instantly.

Splitting the playerbase in two is ludicrous in this climate, there are too many F2P shooters out there for it being a good idea to split the fanbase decisively in two. And then from a pedogigcal point of view, and I can't stress this enough;

Giving new players an easier alternative will not make them learn to use the harder alternative. It will actively impede their development as pilots. You will see a new base of players only learning to use third-person.

[Derek Icelord]

Garth Erlam, on 16 November 2012 - 02:59 PM, said:

For reference, we also strongly recommend listening to Russ’s comments, as he provides a clear case for our approach.

It isn't that Russ didn't make a clear case, it's that players don't want 3rd person. The reasons outlined for even considering a 3rd person view would all be solved by adding in an actual, in-game tutorial.

The players understand the reasons given, we just think you're off your rocker for thinking 3rd person is the solution.

[Gatto Fatto]

well, put a new module that allow 'mechs to shoot one time per match an UAV for recon but is unable to lock and can be destroyed. so players can't switch to 3rd person to look toward obstacles and then back to first person, but who want to look at his own mech for satisfy the Hammer-feeling can simply do it. and it adds some strategic mechanics too, by not being fully destroyed from 2 lrm passing a cliff xD

and for making it clear: i don't want 3rd person view.

Edited by Gatto Fatto, 17 November 2012 - 08:06 AM.

[moneyBURNER]

Percival Hasek, on 17 November 2012 - 07:03 AM, said:

As fa ras I'm concerned, the 1st person POV is just as 'immersion' breaking: no rear faciing monitors? no proximity warning systems? No radar,IR tracking, MAd detection, no ability to track or detect other than the mark 1 eyeball? 100 ton 'mechs sneaking? Ridiculous.

That limited situational awareness was intentionally implemented to enhance gameplay, allowing for the possibility of a wider range of tactics and teamwork.

3PV will likely break a fundamental 'design pillar' that drew so many fans to begin with, which affects 1PV players because it not only diverts resources from addressing critical issues in the short term, but also threatens the future player base of the original game we all thought we were supporting.

[Percival Hasek]

moneyBURNER, on 17 November 2012 - 07:54 AM, said:

That limited situational awareness was intentionally implemented to enhance gameplay, allowing for the possibility of a wider range of tactics and teamwork.

3PV will likely break a fundamental 'design pillar' that drew so many fans to begin with, which affects 1PV players because it not only diverts resources from addressing critical issues in the short term, but also threatens the future player base of the original game we all thought we were supporting.

[Kavoh]

Gimpy Warpig, on 16 November 2012 - 03:15 PM, said:

Unless you're in their PR department, I fail to see how you know how many emails/feedback forms they've received. This forum does not the MW fanbase equal. not even close.

If you, for even a second, think that OVER 3000 different people sent in emails saying they wanted 3rd person (when 90%~ of the community doesn't even know a forum exists or refuses to use it, let alone find their email address and email them), I am very concerned for your mental health.

Edited by Kavoh, 17 November 2012 - 08:07 AM.

[SIN Deacon]

Garth Erlam, on 16 November 2012 - 02:59 PM, said:

If we find that there is a relevant role for an optional 3^rd person camera mode, then then would simply be an additional option that, if you don’t want it, won’t affect you. Bryan will be writing a detailed Command Chair post on this (he's currently at 40,000 feet, and not by Jump Jetting) with more details. For now, be assured we're acutely aware of past problems with 3rd person view, and will make sure those same issues are thoroughly addressed. We wouldn’t settle for anything less.

Not using 3rd person won't effect those that use 1st person only? Thats exactly what happened in Mw4.... We must have fogotton what it's like to play games like CoD or BF3 when you can use 3rd person to look around buildings or over hills down onto the enemy. This game should be shamed if you somehow try to create a equal environment of 1st and 3rd person, because it simply isn't possible.

The people crying for a 3rd person view are the ones that cannot visualize themselves in the mech, piloting it. They crash into buildings, run into assaults and can't hit the same spot on the mech because of their terrible piloting skills. This is a attempt to dumb the game down and to offer a advantage to those that need it. This will also be abused by myself, and others for more then just a simple crutch. Poptarting in Mw4 was created and was successfully deployed in most drops BECAUSE of 3rd person view. You think things like missles and ppc/gauss are dumb now? 3rd person will ruin everything this game has worked so hard for.

Why don't you guys try implementing things like FIXING THE CURRENT STATE OF THE GAME and add some useful features. This is getting tiresome reading the same mindless crap over and over again.

[DirePhoenix]

Stickjock, on 17 November 2012 - 05:20 AM, said:

I really wish people would stop saying over 90% of the community are against it... the poll everyone refers to, yes, shows as of this morning 91.55% (even better for you stat spouters...)... but...

3,244 members have cast votes
2,969 voted No... 91.55%
401,128 total registered users on the forums...

So, that 2,969 isn't close to 90% of the community... it's more like .007%, so less than 1% of the community... yes, I know, most of those member that haven't voted probably don't even use the forums, but still...

This is why I keep pointing out that polls are absolutely useless. They only represent the people that vote on them. "Representative Samples" are complete bull****. On game forums, ANY game's forums, only a tiny, tiny fraction of the playerbase even touch the forums, let alone bother to vote on a specific poll. A lot of games (not this one) don't even require you to register or even link your in-game identity for their forums when you make a game account.

That isn't to say I don't agree with the people that voted on that poll. I too think a third-person combat view would be totally game-breaking. What I would accept, however, is a non-combat third person view. By that, I mean like a toggle switch you hold down like the Freelook camera inside your cockpit. Hold it down, and you can look around outside your 'mech. HOWEVER, there is no firing of weapons when using third person view, no HUD, and no controlling your 'mech's movement (if you have your throttle set, you keep moving in that direction at that speed). Only looking around. This would be essentially like poking your head outside of your 'mech. You can use it when powered up or shut down. And there it might be useful, where you can scout by shutting down your 'mech and hiding behind a hill or in the forest, and reporting enemy movement manually, either by voice chat or text, and without the aid of your HUD and targeting systems (until you jump back in your 'mech and start it up... which takes a few seconds).

Edited by DirePhoenix, 17 November 2012 - 08:21 AM.

[Dai San]

Deja vu or what?

I remember not to long ago someone let slip about 4 player teams... Then came the denials and an "It was just something we were thinking about" statement. The lo and behold it was announced that was exactly what was happening.

Personally I say all this discussion is mute, basically bend over and grab your ankles because 3rd person is coming wether we want it or not.

[DuckDuckMech]

Made a poll to discuss having 3rd Person View Implemented Using Destroyable UAV

[JAFO]

Listen to the community,
http://mwomercs.com/...son-its-coming/
This poll should speak for itself.

3rd person will alienate a major portion of the dedicated Player base who donated money to this game.

End the debate!

[Rosh]

When I started playing I was surprised there was no 3rd person view or even a simple rear-view mirror / camera.
Now I am happy they are not there, even if a rear mounted camera would be technically not too difficult to explain in this world. No need to even mention unmanned drones etc... to gather intelligence.

I like NOT having these things for game balance reasons. Yes people can sneak up on you, and so can you. Yes you can't look in all directions at once or peek around a building without risking parts of your mech getting blown off.
Take these things away and the game will become a lot less challenging and losses a lot of long term appeal.

Is there a big market out there that plays "easy-mode" online games? Sure. WoW got dumber by the year. Ask yourself why BT is still played after all these years. Do you want to capture the crowd that is loyal to BT and keep them for years, of do you want to grab the attention of the "easy-mode" crowd for a few months until they get bored with the game and meanwhile you have driven the real BT fans of?

Not a simple choice and in today's economy everything needs to happen now. Still I hope you make the long term choice because I like the potential of this game, which is why I invested in it.

R.