2926 replies to this topic

[Noonan]

The point is that if they put 3rd person view into the game and isolate it, then the ***** hackers will still figure out to use it for cheating and that would be horrible.

[Rejarial Galatan]

Coolant, on 25 November 2012 - 02:32 PM, said:

You responded without even reading what he wrote because of your emotions. He said, and paraphrasing Russ from the interview, "It wont rain Armageddon, and if you don't like 3rd person, you'll never have to play in it..."

How does what you wrote and I'm quoting, "and adds in tactical advantages to those who use it, advantages such as jump jetting up, firing a salvo of missiles, then landing. time in enemy fire risk = minimal like that. also you can see above hills, around corners all w/out risk to your mech." coincide with you will play in 1st person only maps with others that are playing first person only if you choose to do so, which, btw, is what Russ says they are looking at. No really, looking for your response...if you can answer how if you choose to play 1st person only against other 1st person only players how any of what your emotional outburst makes sense...

pixies and fairy dust. they implement it, and they do not make it 100% UNHACKABLE into FFP, which, there is 0 way to stop that from happening, then, guess what, I am forced to deal with it, and that will break the game. not to mention the fact that there is 0 positive spin you can add to 3rd person. giving some nut who cannot grasp something as basic as looking ONE way while MOVING A DIFFERENT DIRECTION a third person camera is like trying to put bubble gum on a fire hose and expect it to stop the flood. They need to give these people a proper PLAYABLE tutorial. THAT would go along way to fix the problem. ALSO take note that a KEY DESIGN PILLAR is first person perspective, and that they themselves state that that is CORE to the game are considering becoming liars and untrustworthy. hell will rain down, mark my words on this. there is no way to do this w/out forcing those of us who do not want it to deal with it. it will fracture an already fractured base. no good will come of it. they do this, do not expect this game here by christmas 2013, or if it is, do not expect it to be healthy.

[Volkite]

DirePhoenix, on 19 November 2012 - 10:35 PM, said:

First the 91.5% you are getting from the opinion poll only represents 1% of the total playerbase.

That was a good point, but unneccessarily long-made.
However, the majority of those on the forum say no. What are we to do with the people that don't make any opinions heard? Assume they want what the vast minority of the vocal part wanted?
...
This is PGI, of course we do.
Your argument is sound, to a point. The relatively few players who post here are a fair representative of the total fanbase; thinking otherwise neccessitates annoying, in-your-face surveys to get the result to satisfy. Which is a bad idea; just not bad enough to be implemented.

[evlkenevl]

JadeViper, on 25 November 2012 - 07:55 AM, said:

The Devs will no doubt be careful about how its implemented, meaning it wont be abuseable, and will test the snot out of it to ensure it is fair to first persons.

The reason I'm against 3rd person is because I don't trust this as far as I can throw it. If it's ever implemented in any way, I have no faith that it will stay restricted to "3rd-person only" match-ups. The advantage it provides over 1st-person view would get ignored when folks complained that they couldn't game with their buds.

Edited by evlkenevl, 25 November 2012 - 09:50 PM.

[Rejarial Galatan]

see, this is why they just need to scrap the idea of 3rd person as a combat mechanic, game mechanic and idea altogether. just make us a REAL tutorial that we can play, and be done with it PGI, you will make things alot better if you spend time making a tutorial rather than 3rd person, which face it PGI, will serve the greater harm than the greater good.

[Randommexi]

i think the unfair visual advantage alone is a good reason to disallow this feature. this will be abused. the game plays best in first person. i've seen this in other games. add 3rd person and 1st person goes out the window.

there are other ways to help the new people learn the game. like an in game tutorial or training ground where people can go and shoot at target dummies. while learning to pilot their mech. plus this would serve as a place for veterns to test their weapons packages. i for one would like a place to do this. so this helps all aspects of the game. both new and vets to the game. much better choice then adding a different view mode to be abused.

[Gbanger]

No third person in "real" matches!

Having said that I like the option of third person views where you can take screen shots of your mech.
Third person when your dead.
I liked the idea of the UAV but that should probably be implemented like the battle map or cockpit secondary monitor.
I like the idea of third person in training grounds/matches.
I like they idea of being able to drop into a map solo or with premade team and play around test out the guns and do it in first or third person.

Conclusion: I think it is a valid point for them to look into the option of third person.

[Kavoh]

The debate continues I see.

In the end though, now that I have been sitting on it for weeks, I have finally calmed down over it and thought it out.


Still
No, there is absolutely no reason it should be implemented. Noone NEEDS it at all. Players who can't understand current HUD mechanics (Im pointing at the damn TRIANGLES ON TOP that tell you which way your legs/torso are facing...) are NOT in need of ridiculous 3rd person. What they need is a TUTORIAL. If you really want to waste time making another view, give us a rear camera like MW4 or have it ONLY IN THE TUTORIAL MODE as an automated sequence that pops out and describes what your mech is doing. Sound stupid? That's because it IS stupid, but for the people claiming they need it to orient their torsos/legs, they actually need something even more user friendly then automation. They need to be in a hospital for serious mental deficiency. If they can't do something as ridiculously simple as torso twisting, then this genre is NOT meant for them, because they will clearly not be able to play any other aspect of this game. Don't screw around with the 1st person game you forged this to be. No, I don't care if its not gonna be used in "real" matches, its a waste of time in the first place let alone making it for a fraction of the game.

In summary. We (the obvious majority here, not your phantom emailers) don't WANT NOR NEED 3rd person view. Whether or not the poll was 1% of total pop, the fact is that 90%+ of that 1% was against it. You're delusional if you magically think that the other 99% swing in the opposite direction despite such a one sided poll. Stop/Don't waste time and resources developing this garbage.

Or better yet, make a one time poll that everyone does (a simple yes/no) when they log in, that way we will solve this dispute once and for all.

[Huovi]

No third person view, i just supported this game with 50 $ and will keep supporting if we stick simulation path. If we take regress to arcade shooter, i'll be gone for good. And i feel pity, if i really supported false promise of mech simulation.

M.S

Edited by Huovi, 26 November 2012 - 03:18 AM.

[Gulinborsti]

JadeViper, on 25 November 2012 - 07:55 AM, said:

It wont rain Armageddon, and if you don't like 3rd person, you'll never have to play in it. You say it will break the game. Well maybe it broke mech 4, but this isn't mech 4, its a new team with new improved ideas. Why not give them a chance to draw in those mech assault/commander players who arn't playing now? I bet they can do it without breaking MWO. Why on earth would you want to alienate tabletop and tactics players? We should make every effort to draw them into our world.

The problem is that most of us that are strictly against 3rd person view will never choose it anyways. But we know the difference and the problems 3rd person view brings into the game if some people are using it and some not!

Well, I am in to give the devs a chance to come up with something really new that might work.
But not before a whole many other things are fixed or added to the game!

This feature can be added later (if thoroughly tested and approved by the actual current player base), even after open beta is long finished and it will still draw new people to the game.

Edited by Gulinborsti, 26 November 2012 - 04:42 AM.

[Tooninki]

Yay for 3rd person!
Change the name from MWO to MechAssault 3 at the same time...

[Armorpiercer M82]

im not interesting in 3rd person view. will never use it.
better add DX11 support.

[Leggin]

Please consider that 3rd person veiw is not what is needed. The true need is rear view as in every other Mechwarrior game.

We don't need to stand above just look behind!

[HELECASTER]

3rd person is simply something that will not enhance this game in any sense. The fact that this post has even surfaced, and the devs are discussing it will prevent me from spending ANY cash on Mech Currency. I didn't purchase a founders pack because I knew that the game wasn't complete, and if push came to shove they would open up 3rd person to try to get an influx of cash.

Simply put, MW4 is free to play now, lots more mechs, maps, and game modes.

And to speak to the point of 3rd person being 'seperate' from 1st person, let's look at MW4 as well. When ladders and leagues seperated 3rd person from FFP, FFP almost went extinct as new players never spend the time to learn the game correctly, and veteran players become disenchanted with a shrinking base and the game over the long term will die, just like MW4 did.

Simply put PGI, have a 'long term' vision on this idea. Short term will get you some dollars from non-dedicated non-enthusiasts. Staying true to the sim model will garner you long term support from people that will spend money month over month and year over year as the game will be compelling and 'battle-tech-like'.

In closing: please drop this 3rd person gambit quickly. Until the game goes final and I see a firm 'no 3rd person ever' post, my cash stays in my wallet...

[grayson marik]

I second the thought of an in game one time pop up poll regarding this.

But Iam afraid, we will never really be able to see the numbers... I mean... if it is not public in the forums but ingame and ...
OK, oviously my faith into PGI is a bit shaken as I'd like the idea of the ingame poll but wont trust it's outcome anymore.
Ouch!

[ghos t in the shel l]

When are you going to stop hating and adapt? A true pilot can play any view

[SgtMaster]

the goal of 3rd view is too bring new players to the game = more revenue = $$$ bid for unseen mechs.

having a poll for players currently playing is pointless

Unlimited ammo and no heat is also a good alternative...

People should just play stock mechs and buy weapons when these are destroyed in game...

PGI are on the right track, good ideas, good balance, they just need to bring back the 8 man/ woman premade quickly..!

[Radagast]

The only way I will play this game if 3rd person is allowed, is if 3rd person matches were only other pilots that wanted a 3rd person view! In other words 3rd person plays only other 3rd person players!

Radagast

Edited by Radagast, 26 November 2012 - 07:03 AM.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

JadeViper, on 25 November 2012 - 07:55 AM, said:

After listening to Russ's arguments, I'm all for it.

The Devs will no doubt be careful about how its implemented, meaning it wont be abuseable, and will test the snot out of it to ensure it is fair to first persons. Pro pilots will never use it in combat: your own mech would likely block your view. It wont be mech 4, and they've said that, but it will open up MWO to a bigger base.

So here's me saying don't knock it before you try it.

Playing mech 4 does not mean you've tried it.


No one here listened to the podcast apparently. It wont rain Armageddon, and if you don't like 3rd person, you'll never have to play in it. You say it will break the game. Well maybe it broke mech 4, but this isn't mech 4, its a new team with new improved ideas. Why not give them a chance to draw in those mech assault/commander players who arn't playing now? I bet they can do it without breaking MWO. Why on earth would you want to alienate tabletop and tactics players? We should make every effort to draw them into our world.

Everyone here listen in at about minute 47-50.

as they put it, the explosions and shakes when hit to the cockpit in the 3PV??

This is not a game like stratecic Mechsommander or Mech tactics

[Agent of Change]

I've said it before but I see the implementation of a 3rd person view (in any form) a turning point in the development of the game for the following reasons.

• Many of us invested in the founders program based on the game we were told would be made, a first person mech SIM. The devs written dedication to the first-person only perspective was a large reason i committed to this game vs. just waiting for mech-commander.
  
• If the devs are willing to seriously consider implenting something they were so clearly against previously it shakes my faith in the fact that this game will remain in any way something i want to play in the long run. If they can compromise on this one fundamental aspect I can't imagine anything they will eventually not compromise on.
  
• Even if it is implemented in a "new player only" way it will still not solve the problem when you dump them in first person, It seems to me a lack of willingness to try alternate approaches to improving the new player experience and learning curve... unless 3rd person isn't about the new player experience but trying to draw in new players at the expense of current players.
  
• The argument that it "won't affect you because you never have use 3rd person or play against it if you don't want to" Is grade A BS. If they (IGP/PGI) push for this and implement a split (a further split than the teams vs. pugs) you will have 2 to 3 pools for each side (pugs/teams) so instead of having one player pool (and lets face it this game is niche) that could get reasonably large that pool will be split 4 to 6 ways. What happens when 1 or two of those 6 pools becomes to small to be worth supporting, they roll it into the others and we end with at best forced mixed play.
  
• Lastly the way we are being addressed about this, the forum community is being told " no decision has been made, we are investigating" but the tone of external interviews, the language chosen, and the fact that no other options for improving the "new player experience" are being openly discussed by the dev team makes it fairly clear that while "No decision to implement 3rd person has been made yet" the silent follow on to that statement is "we are going to make the decision to implement it as soon as it's ready to go live".