2926 replies to this topic

[LynxFury]

So some are that spiteful, that they'd rather see game failure than introduce a popular play style that they'd never have to play....Just wow...

(sigh).
(sad).

And dude it has little to do with a tutorial, that's a position that some either assuming that the game could never be offered in 3rd, or because they still come from the elitist position that their first person style is better.

Some people prefer arcade versions of games...they don't want to worry about the position of their legs, they actually want to see the paint jobs they might consider purchasing, they probably also don't want to worry about ammo, or heat. They want to get half drunk, put the biggest guns on the mechs they can (after all many are also BT fans and call them that), laugh with their buds as they pound them with 4 or 6 pulse lasers, quickly respawn, and try to do it again. And you know what....every other version of MW offered this more arcade style, AND IT WAS THE MOST POPULAR ONE. Get it? Remember how to relax and have fun....like when mecha combat was about moving figurines around on a cardboard map or table top...IN 3rd person! (ROFL).

If I were investing I'd honestly insist on some arcade form of the game, particularly given how widely popular that play-style was in MWX past, and how common 3rd person vehicles are in so many other games that are competing today. .or at least a damn good marketing study.

As narrow minded as this community sometimes is I'm surprised it even got mentioned before being done.

And honestly if PGI puts together a version of the game you don't have to play....they haven't effected the players here, nor broken a single promise to the players here....they've simply offered another mecha game.

Edited by LynxFury, 06 January 2013 - 01:52 AM.

[BerryChunks]

ROFL. TERRIBLE IDEA. NICE TO SEE THE ALT+F4 TROLLS MADE A COMPANY WANT TO IMP 3D VIEW.

Well done PGI. I have no money for you now.

[Gray 46rus]

Rejarial Galatan, on 05 January 2013 - 08:35 PM, said:

MechWarrior Online is being designed to put you the player in the seat of the pilot. It is 100% first person view only. Being the pilot is one of our key design pillars and 3rd person breaks that pillar on multiple levels as seen in many of the other 3rd Person discussions.

I'l sign under every word. We are MechWarriors. Pilots.
Every slightest detail of the gameplay is designed to give us that feeling. Every misle, every slug, striking my Mech's hull, give me that feeling. If someone don't want to feel himself as a MechWarrior - he shouldn't play this game, am I right?
Yes, there is a problem with non-intuitive controls, especially for newcomers (as me), but 3-rd person view is not a solution. More informative HUD - yes, of cource. 3PV - no way.

[Zaptruder]

The degree of vehemence against a relatively innocuous feature is probably quite telling of the community's level of maturity... unfortunately. It demonstrates a curiously inflexible mindset that is unwilling to even test variables in order to arrive at a better solution if it exists.

A reasonable compromise to me seems to be: Single player/PUGs get access to third person cam. Grouped players do not.

1. New players are mostly PUGs - the tactical advantage and the better sense of movement helps them out - helps the game to not stagnate by flushing new players immediately into the fury of the grouped players sinkhole.

2. Helps to rebalance a bit of tactical advantage for solo/PUG players who are lacking group communications and information sharing.

3. Allows players to more easily take interesting and useful videos and screenshots of the game which is helpful for promotion purposes - which is in turn useful for the community.

Ultimately, the game is still designed heavily towards team work; you wouldn't not group up just because you like playing in third person (unless you simply cannot play in first person... in which case, it's still better to have you playing than not) - you're still going to get a superior tactical and play experience in a group.


I'd like to note the irony that this same player base is also quite vehemently against the idea of integrating the Oculus Rift into the game (albeit to a lesser extent) - even though a head tracking VR headset is pretty much the perfect tool for putting you into the position of the pilot, which they claim is what the game is all about.

Personally, I'm all about inclusiveness, without compromising the function/value. If that means reassessing original goals then that's what you need to do to make the best design and product possible.

Edited by Zaptruder, 06 January 2013 - 04:53 AM.

[Strisk]

Raselok, on 05 January 2013 - 08:03 PM, said:

Can someone explain what the advantage of third person viewing actually is? My family and I just discovered this game and love it so far. I have no desire to play in third person, but I can't figure out what has everyone so up in arms. An explanation would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

By manipulating the third person view you can see around corners and over hills, something very empowering in a game that won't let you otherwise know what is around a corner or over a hill.

[Rejarial Galatan]

Zaptruder, on 06 January 2013 - 04:49 AM, said:

The degree of vehemence against a relatively innocuous feature is probably quite telling of the community's level of maturity... unfortunately. It demonstrates a curiously inflexible mindset that is unwilling to even test variables in order to arrive at a better solution if it exists.

it demonstrates that, the majority of the fan base are against the implementation of a camera angle that alters the game on the most basic of levels and fundamentally alters the game in such away that it eliminates immersion. I have a feeling you are not aware of how badly this will alter the game. Let me just point you at mektek and its free down load of MW4 Mercenaries, and turn you loose on its multiplayer so you can experience the jump sniping.

Zaptruder, on 06 January 2013 - 04:49 AM, said:

A reasonable compromise to me seems to be: Single player/PUGs get access to third person cam. Grouped players do not.

1. New players are mostly PUGs - the tactical advantage and the better sense of movement helps them out - helps the game to not stagnate by flushing new players immediately into the fury of the grouped players sinkhole.

the reasonable compromise is NOT this. It is placing in a PROPER FORCED TUTORIAL. Teach players that torso facing and leg facing are NOT linked.

Zaptruder, on 06 January 2013 - 04:49 AM, said:

2. Helps to rebalance a bit of tactical advantage for solo/PUG players who are lacking group communications and information sharing.

WRONG. unbalances it, and gives jump sniping and the ability to see around and over obstacles w/out risking your mech. sorry. no.

Zaptruder, on 06 January 2013 - 04:49 AM, said:

3. Allows players to more easily take interesting and useful videos and screenshots of the game which is helpful for promotion purposes - which is in turn useful for the community.

then, allow pictures with in the mech lab. If you are so invested in picturing your mech, then, please, die quickly in the fight as you serve no help to YOUR team.

Zaptruder, on 06 January 2013 - 04:49 AM, said:

Ultimately, the game is still designed heavily towards team work; you wouldn't not group up just because you like playing in third person (unless you simply cannot play in first person... in which case, it's still better to have you playing than not) - you're still going to get a superior tactical and play experience in a group.


I'd like to note the irony that this same player base is also quite vehemently against the idea of integrating the Oculus Rift into the game (albeit to a lesser extent) - even though a head tracking VR headset is pretty much the perfect tool for putting you into the position of the pilot, which they claim is what the game is all about.

Personally, I'm all about inclusiveness, without compromising the function/value. If that means reassessing original goals then that's what you need to do to make the best design and product possible.

including 3rd PPOV will drive away an already angered and worn out player base. also, Paul said no. he is our lead designer.

[Foxdie]

This will take away the shock of turning a corner and BOOM mechs....you can just 3rd person and peek without even showing your mech to the enemy....this is a horrid idea and WILL EFFECT EVERY 1st PERSON user.

[grayson marik]

I find it funny how those lownesome 3rd person lovers try to push their point through... there is no argument beating the technical difficulties and player base fraction argument... so they try the social / emotional way by naming us narrow minded and elitist and so on.

I feel like at work, when my LtCol. tries to sell an order to me, he knows I will not like and is ******** but he has to do it because it comes from further up the chain... LOL

Come on MSgt, you are our best man for doing it.... blah... blubb... I know, it might not look like the staff was on its senses when deciding so but I trust you can handle it.... there is really no draw back, even if it looks like now and has been so before...

BAH!!!

Show a way that disables the improved situational awareness 3rd grants without breaking your "I want to see the beauty" and I will gladly support 3rd!
Show me an other suggestion, that will prevent the player base split and I will gladly support 3rd!

I dont want to prevent you playing 3rd because I dont like it and if I dont like it you cannot have it :-D

I want to prevent 3rd because it changes the game so much and because even if I dont have to use it in the first place - the split of playerbase and the urge of competitive gaming will sooner or later FORCE me to play 3rd or quit.

But I dont want to be forced to either adapt to 3rd or to quit the game I love.... And yes, I want PGI to stand by their word unless the survival of the game is in danger, which there is no prove of.

Edited by grayson marik, 07 January 2013 - 01:36 AM.

[TamerSA]

Well, I was passing by this forum and decided to add my two cents. I will admit upfront that I might have been too lazy to read the whole thing first...

I am a fan of the offline games since MW2, and can honestly say that the only reason I used to play 3rd person was because the first person/cockpit view sucked and in my opinion was almost unplayable.

That being said, the cockpit view in MWO has been done very well and I like it. To me the 3rd person view would really not add much to the game other than maybe seeing who is humping your leg from behind with a laser and reacting to it a bit sooner...
But other than that I think first person is fine, and it is probably closer to what the game is attempting to be if you take into account the tactical warfare and no respawning etc.

Choice isn't always a bad thing though, since the player base does differ and everyone has their own opinion. I do think that if you want to add 3rd person it should be like other Tank or vehicle sims where you lose some HUD advantages for 3rd person view awareness. But again this is all my opinion on the matter.

[shotokan5]

I challenged anyone to show in the first page to purchase founders that it said more than first person only. Not one person came forward to say I was wrong. What he looked up is not bean counting its called investigating. Let the people that worry about dirty words, please close this thread before my nurse has to give me more nerve pills. We have killed the dog to many times lets not be to cruel.

[Thomas de Ville]

shotokan5, on 07 January 2013 - 04:03 AM, said:

I challenged anyone to show in the first page to purchase founders that it said more than first person only. Not one person came forward to say I was wrong. What he looked up is not bean counting its called investigating. Let the people that worry about dirty words, please close this thread before my nurse has to give me more nerve pills. We have killed the dog to many times lets not be to cruel.

[Falkweiss]

I can imagine 3rd Person View is nice to actually watch your mech firing his guns, etc. but I personally would prefer it being available in Spectator Mode, a kind of replay match mode or in training/tutorial missions only. Even in some kind of single player missions to gain CB.

I can imagine a good 3rd person view being an advantage over 1st person view but a bad 3rd person view won't do any good either so better keep it out and help new people learn the torso twist
Besides maneuvering a mech is not much different from doing it in real life: running in one direction, looking into a different. Everyone of us can do it.

Btw I played almost any BT Game starting from TableTop to Mechwarrior 1,2,3,4 and even the Mechwarrior Tactical Games Series (3rd Person View, Command and Conquer Style) from Microsoft and some clones (both first and third person view) and the best games were the ones having you sit INSIDE the cockpit! ;-)

BTW: Oculus Rift for the win! That would be best feature EVER!

Edited by Falkweiss, 07 January 2013 - 07:36 AM.

[Pando]

Oh look there lads, It's a mob wearing dunce hats carrying pitch-forks.

What about adding a time-delay feature on watching alive team-mates, coupled with the 3rd person view.

OR as mentioned in the OP, separate queuing functions for the different perspectives.

Edited by Pando, 07 January 2013 - 07:49 AM.

[J0anna]

First off, 3rd person view doesn't change tactical advantage since it's available to both sides. However, to me, it ruins the immersion and therefore has no place in this game, You should feel like you are driving a battlemech, not watching someone driving it.

[Pando]

Moenrg, on 07 January 2013 - 07:57 AM, said:

First off, 3rd person view doesn't change tactical advantage since it's available to both sides. However, to me, it ruins the immersion and therefore has no place in this game, You should feel like you are driving a battlemech, not watching someone driving it.

If you had listened to the OP's video, that would not have been a relevant concern because it was mentioned to split the perspectives up.

Edited by Pando, 07 January 2013 - 08:06 AM.

[Alois Hammer]

LynxFury, on 06 January 2013 - 12:48 AM, said:

They also said, if done, 3rd person would be separated from the first person servers.

Yep- "they" also said the game would be 100% first-person, and droned on with religious fervor about it being all about the first-person in-the-cockpit experience.

Then went back on it like the US government on land treaties with North America's natives.

Support them if you like- they've shown their integrity and credibility quite clearly.

[Pando]

Alois Hammer, on 07 January 2013 - 08:16 AM, said:

Yep- "they" also said the game would be 100% first-person, and droned on with religious fervor about it being all about the first-person in-the-cockpit experience.

Then went back on it like the US government on land treaties with North America's natives.

Support them if you like- they've shown their integrity and credibility quite clearly.

You think the decision to contradict a previous statement was an easy one? PIPE DOWN and just get ready for what's probably coming in some form or another. I'm still waiting for a relevant concern not covered in OP's post.

Do you want this game to succeed?
Do you want PGI/IGP to strive to gain more/new members?

Stop nit-picking and deal with what you get. Be satisfied you're playing a (modern) MechWarrior game.

[Targor Avelany]

Eh... Sad that this would be my first post on this forum... Oh well.

Honestly, I really don't see why people are so upset.
Don't misunderstand me - I can't stand 3rd person view and don't ever want to even try it (MW4 proved it to be horrible idea). But I don't understand people screaming about "splitting of the servers is bad cause it splits the playerbase!!!!"

Well, let me put it this way - people who WANT 3rd person view and don't enjoy the 1st pv - wont play your game anyway.. The same as you are all screaming about leaving the game if this appears, the same way those players who want 3rd pv wont play..

So, honestly, I really don't see the split of a playerbase.
IMO, if PGI will have an option for the servers to have "w/ 3rd pv", "w/o 3rd pv (enforced)", "who the heck cares" - that would be enough for me.

People who play with 3rd pv soon realize that the main body of players wont play with them. But they can have their niche... As long as it doesn't affect the rest of us - why do we care?

But seriously, stop acting like little kids and scream on forums like your favorite toy gets taken away. Immaturity is not the way to go.

Cheers,

Targor Avelany

[Boss Awesome]

3rd person view will give advantages to people using it thus forcing everyone to use 3rd person they they can peek around corners ect. If the community is separated based on 3rd person and 1st person only servers then an already small community is divided. Dividing a small community is a game killer. 3rd person is lame anyway. Just say no to 3rd person Mechwarrior,.

[Pando]

Boss Awesome, on 07 January 2013 - 10:56 AM, said:

3rd person view will give advantages to people using it thus forcing everyone to use 3rd person they they can peek around corners ect. If the community is separated based on 3rd person and 1st person only servers then an already small community is divided. Dividing a small community is a game killer. 3rd person is lame anyway. Just say no to 3rd person Mechwarrior,.

I hope this doesn't offend you. Frankly that's an ignorant comment. I'm not going to "break it down" it with an elaborate answer as many have pointed out that's not a valid concern. Still waiting.

Edited by Pando, 07 January 2013 - 11:37 AM.