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smurfy mechlab guide

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#121 Snib

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 01:35 AM

View Postsmurfynet, on 11 December 2012 - 11:32 PM, said:

@snib: thanks for your feedback, i will remove the dps values for the utility weapons from my charts with the next update. it seams at least the ams works a bit different than the machine gun for example, because it seams that there the rof value (or some other value i'm not familier with) gets used in the dps calculation.

Oh, that's another one, for the machine gun you actually didn't use the rof attribute when you should have. AMS uses the same structure because it does actually use the machine gun animation locally, but only there. You'll have to hardcode an exception for that weapon.

View Postsmurfynet, on 11 December 2012 - 11:32 PM, said:

i need to have a look at the gamefiles again. if maybe you can shine some light on where i can get those values. same goes for projectile health. like you mentioned. i guess only missle projectiles got health.

Yep, there is nothing that can damage ballistics in flight so they do not need health (they might have a symbolic value set but I would not know).

Those values are not in the game files, they are server-side only. It's actually rather surprising we do have so many values in the client at all since they client does not need to know most of them. So we can probably expect a clean-up at some point where much of what we have now will get removed.

View Postsmurfynet, on 11 December 2012 - 11:32 PM, said:

i really want to show only stats on my page which are loaded from gamefiles or calculated based on the values in gamefiles rather than hardcoding stuff. thats the main reason as an example for not adding the cbill costs. (maybe you know if they are present in the gamefiles or get loaded from the server)

I understand where you are coming from. CBill costs are dynamically loaded as far as I'm aware, at least I only recall seeing a place-holder in the files. You could grab the list from the client's memory space if you want to add it and place a note that the values may change without notice or something like that.

#122 smurfynet

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 02:01 AM

View PostSnib, on 12 December 2012 - 01:35 AM, said:

Oh, that's another one, for the machine gun you actually didn't use the rof attribute when you should have.


but i do. 0.04 dmg -> 0.4 dps , just like in ohms stats

View PostSnib, on 12 December 2012 - 01:35 AM, said:

Yep, there is nothing that can damage ballistics in flight so they do not need health (they might have a symbolic value set but I would not know).
Those values are not in the game files, they are server-side only.


Ok, i think the health value of the projectile itself is not that interesting anyway :D

View PostSnib, on 12 December 2012 - 01:35 AM, said:

It's actually rather surprising we do have so many values in the client at all since they client does not need to know most of them. So we can probably expect a clean-up at some point where much of what we have now will get removed.


Lets hope they will keep the values, because without them there will be no good reference guide, if you need to create list by hand you will do mistakes and its an awful lot of work to keep that up2date.


View PostSnib, on 12 December 2012 - 01:35 AM, said:

You could grab the list from the client's memory space if you want to add it and place a note that the values may change without notice or something like that.


Yea i could do that, but if i do i definitively run into TOS problems ;)

#123 Snib

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 02:26 AM

View Postsmurfynet, on 12 December 2012 - 02:01 AM, said:

but i do. 0.04 dmg -> 0.4 dps , just like in ohms stats

Must have misread. My bad.

View Postsmurfynet, on 12 December 2012 - 02:01 AM, said:

Lets hope they will keep the values, because without them there will be no good reference guide, if you need to create list by hand you will do mistakes and its an awful lot of work to keep that up2date.

As a fellow data miner I second that notion. :D

View Postsmurfynet, on 12 December 2012 - 02:01 AM, said:

Yea i could do that, but if i do i definitively run into TOS problems ;)

Not that you need to tell anybody you didn't type the values in manually, but you're well past ToS breach anyway.

ToS:

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Was the same problem with World of Tanks, everything was prohibited but never enforced and when contacted all they'd say was they could not "officially" allow it, meaning you should just unofficially breach their terms and hope for the best (since they never enforced them). Hate that. Which is why I tend to keep my stuff private. :)

#124 Kmieciu

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 03:30 AM

View PostSnib, on 12 December 2012 - 01:35 AM, said:

It's actually rather surprising we do have so many values in the client at all since they client does not need to know most of them. So we can probably expect a clean-up at some point where much of what we have now will get removed.


The client needs all the local stats to run prediction on movement, weapon fire and heat. They might encrypt the files eventually, but they will never remove it.


On a side note:
If AMS did 2 damage per second with 200 meters of range and each rocket had 1 point of health, that would mean a single AMS can shoot down up to 4 LRM missiles (@ 100 speed). Or 1 SRM missile (@ 300 speed), but it has to be fired outside of 200 meters. In theory its possible to shoot down 2 SSRM missiles @200 speed, when fired outside of 200 meters.

#125 Snib

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 04:05 AM

View PostKmieciu, on 12 December 2012 - 03:30 AM, said:

The client needs all the local stats to run prediction on movement, weapon fire and heat. They might encrypt the files eventually, but they will never remove it.

Of course, some values need to remain, but e.g. damage values are not exposed anywhere in the client so those could be removed (would hope they rather decide to expose them in the mech bay instead).


View PostKmieciu, on 12 December 2012 - 03:30 AM, said:

On a side note:
If AMS did 2 damage per second with 200 meters of range and each rocket had 1 point of health, that would mean a single AMS can shoot down up to 4 LRM missiles (@ 100 speed). Or 1 SRM missile (@ 300 speed), but it has to be fired outside of 200 meters. In theory its possible to shoot down 2 SSRM missiles @200 speed, when fired outside of 200 meters.

Exactly. If your entire team has AMS and is positioned correctly you can negate most incoming missile fire, in particular if the enemy is chain firing.

Edited by Snib, 12 December 2012 - 04:05 AM.


#126 smurfynet

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 03:04 AM

View PostSnib, on 12 December 2012 - 04:05 AM, said:

Exactly. If your entire team has AMS and is positioned correctly you can negate most incoming missile fire, in particular if the enemy is chain firing.


i knew that too, but because of no infos about the health of the missile itself it is hard to see if the rof value is used in the dps calculation of the dps value.

#127 zudukai

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 10:17 PM

are you still planning on putting in the health values for equipable items?

e.g. ECM, AC-10, LL, Engine...?

#128 PurpleNinja

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 03:30 AM

Excellent work.

:) :wub:

#129 Loqgar

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 05:09 PM

Keep up the great work.

One idea is a chart that shows the tonnage you would save switching to FF armor if you had full armor points, and one for endo steel.

Also bump for sticky, most of us have it book marked by now but its definitely something we want new players to have access to.

#130 Tex Arcana

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 08:55 AM

+1 For Smurfy.
Great piece of work for a New Pilot to check out.

#131 smurfynet

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 12:47 AM

Working on some updates, will release them over the holidays,
There will be a update tomorrow with the new patch data too.

#132 Nebuchadnezzarr

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 08:17 PM

Is it possible to extract from the game files, the number of missile tubes on applicable mech body parts?

For example, Catapult A1 has 15 missile tubes on each arm, the Atlas DC has 15 missile tubes on the left torso, and the Raven 3L has only 1 missile tube on the left arm.

This is important, because just like how a laser's beam duration can lower their dps, firing a LRM20 on an Atlas DC can also lower the LRM20's dps, because it takes two volleys to fire all 20 missiles, before the weapon can start its cooldown.

BTW, love your site. Thanks for your hard work.

#133 Nothing Whatsoever

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 11:28 AM

This is sweet.

And I was wondering, for the missile slots, could the number of missiles capable of being fired per salvo of each Mech section be added?

For example, I know that the Raven 3L has a single missile per salvo on its arm (kinda funny when seen firing LRMs), so details like that would be great for quick reference when not in game looking at the Mechs and having to guess on the salvos for the Mechs! ;)

#134 zudukai

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 02:07 PM

View PostPraetor Shepard, on 18 December 2012 - 11:28 AM, said:

This is sweet.

And I was wondering, for the missile slots, could the number of missiles capable of being fired per salvo of each Mech section be added?

For example, I know that the Raven 3L has a single missile per salvo on its arm (kinda funny when seen firing LRMs), so details like that would be great for quick reference when not in game looking at the Mechs and having to guess on the salvos for the Mechs! :P

... two posts in the wrong areas about what, really?

#135 Nothing Whatsoever

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 02:15 PM

View Postzudukai, on 18 December 2012 - 02:07 PM, said:

... two posts in the wrong areas about what, really?


I don't understand what you mean.

#136 AkuPyro

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 02:26 PM

Like the guide. I think I refer to both yours and Ohm's charts as you guys provide such great detailed break downs. I do have one request though, if possible, can pricing on things be added to the sheet. I would love to work out builds on paper and see how much I need as the lovely Mechlab likes to restrict parts you don't have Cbills for (you can play around and see what would look nice if you don't have the cash, even if your just looking).

#137 Blark

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 03:36 PM

Thanks for the quick update mate.
I keep wondering why this is still not stickied...

#138 zudukai

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 10:24 PM

View PostPraetor Shepard, on 18 December 2012 - 02:15 PM, said:


I don't understand what you mean.

:| ditto.

#139 Nebuchadnezzarr

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 10:42 PM

View Postzudukai, on 18 December 2012 - 10:24 PM, said:

:| ditto.


I don't blame you for not knowing. The topic of missile tubes is rarely discussed on the forums.
If you Youtube "LRM20 Raven", you will understand what we are talking about.

A LRM20 has a dps of 7.58 listed on Smurfy's site. After watching the above video, it is clear that a Raven will not obtain 7.58dps with a LRM20. This is due to the number of missile tubes on the Raven.

#140 Keisuke Nagisa

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 12:59 AM

Yeh I'd also like info on the missile tubes in the guide it would be very helpful.

Edited by Keisuke Nagisa, 19 December 2012 - 01:01 AM.






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