1768 replies to this topic

[NoxMorbis]

Smurfy,

I have this build:

STK-3F

It says 29% Heat Effeiciency. But when in actual game, it says 1.08 which is 8% efficiency. Load out is identical in game as it is on your mechlab.

Edited by NoxMorbis, 23 January 2013 - 11:02 PM.

[MustrumRidcully]

Looks interesting, particularly the idea with the slider. When talking to one of the "competitor" mech lab developers, I mentioned that sustained DPS is sometimes underestimated by algorithm if they don't consider the different dps/hps efficiencies between weapons. The sliders is a way to have at least someone - the user - do the logic behind this.

Now I'd also love to see the time to shutdown and all that rules.

Oh, and being able to enter the armour values per number keys instead only via clicking would be nice.

[Blark]

NoxMorbis, on 23 January 2013 - 11:00 PM, said:

Smurfy,

I have this build:

STK-3F

It says 29% Heat Effeiciency. But when in actual game, it says 1.08 which is 8% efficiency. Load out is identical in game as it is on your mechlab.

The cooling efficiency in the mechlab has little in common with the heat efficiency in-game:

The cooling efficiency is the quotient of heat/s dissipation of the heatsinks and heat/s generated by weapons, so it really displays how well your mech is able to cool itself down when you alpha (oh, check the weapon lab, you can test with more then alphas now ); the heat efficiency in the game however is bases on a little odd formula seemingly containing some hard-coded heat-discounts for certain weapons, so 1.08 =! 8%

MustrumRidcully, on 23 January 2013 - 11:09 PM, said:

[..]
Oh, and being able to enter the armour values per number keys instead only via clicking would be nice.

Then you might be happy to see that smurfy already implemented it a couple of patches ago (right tab, same position as in-game)

[Grey Ghost]

What is the deal with "The Twist X Skill only works if the mech has independent arm movement." in the stats portion? So Mechs like the Catapult and Stalker get no benefit for purchasing that skill? I hope having a wasted skill is a bug if so.

[NoxMorbis]

Blark, on 23 January 2013 - 11:23 PM, said:

The cooling efficiency in the mechlab has little in common with the heat efficiency in-game:

The cooling efficiency is the quotient of heat/s dissipation of the heatsinks and heat/s generated by weapons, so it really displays how well your mech is able to cool itself down when you alpha (oh, check the weapon lab, you can test with more then alphas now ); the heat efficiency in the game however is bases on a little odd formula seemingly containing some hard-coded heat-discounts for certain weapons, so 1.08 =! 8%

Wouldn't it be more helpful to offer a game like heat efficiency? That way we know that weapons to use correlative to heat. I just built that mech and it's totally useless heat-wise.

[Tuku]

I have not found any bugs as of yet but I have some sugestions if you don't mind.

The ability to name mech fits would be great!

More Info on what the numbers mean in weapon lab.

[Blark]

NoxMorbis, on 24 January 2013 - 01:13 AM, said:

Wouldn't it be more helpful to offer a game like heat efficiency? That way we know that weapons to use correlative to heat. I just built that mech and it's totally useless heat-wise.

There was a heat efficiency display in the online mechlab which was very close to the in-game one, but smurfy removed it because it is not very informative (as stated before, it does not represent your heat efficiency very well).
The cooling-efficiency in the online mechlab is quite good for making builds imo, the only thing missing is an info button to clarify what the value means.

Tuku, on 24 January 2013 - 02:19 AM, said:

I have not found any bugs as of yet but I have some sugestions if you don't mind.

The ability to name mech fits would be great!

More Info on what the numbers mean in weapon lab.

Naming your mechs is on the to-do list (high prio) as well as more info's in the weapon lab

[FAT_]

If we had two mechbays, one for R&D and one for "working" chassis, that would allow you to be able to link the working chassis mechbay to the other members of your RCT and still retain all your theory-crafted mechs in the R&D mechbay.

Edited by FatMWO, 24 January 2013 - 11:31 AM.

[NoxMorbis]

Blark, on 24 January 2013 - 10:29 AM, said:

There was a heat efficiency display in the online mechlab which was very close to the in-game one, but smurfy removed it because it is not very informative (as stated before, it does not represent your heat efficiency very well).
The cooling-efficiency in the online mechlab is quite good for making builds imo, the only thing missing is an info button to clarify what the value means.

You know, this is exactly correct. We just need a way to know what "hot" and "cold" is. the way it is displayed, as you correctly explain, is arbitrary. However, I also agree that having a %age is a better choice, although the in game 1.x is the same thing. They simply don't correlate.

The in game heat efficency tells me pretty well, however, what type of problems I'm going to have with heat. It's a general figure based on alpha. It's just hard to tell, as it is right now, what you're going to do in game with your particular load.

I just wish I had known this before completely refitting my mech, only to find that instead of hearing other mechs blow up to my 6 LLs, all i hear is "Heat level critical." lol fail.

Generally, from what I can see, with the Smurfy lab you want a 50% or better for alpha calculations. 30% should get your controlled fire just fine too.

Edited by NoxMorbis, 24 January 2013 - 01:41 PM.

[Blark]

NoxMorbis, on 24 January 2013 - 01:40 PM, said:

You know, this is exactly correct. We just need a way to know what "hot" and "cold" is. the way it is displayed, as you correctly explain, is arbitrary. However, I also agree that having a %age is a better choice, although the in game 1.x is the same thing. They simply don't correlate.

The in game heat efficency tells me pretty well, however, what type of problems I'm going to have with heat. It's a general figure based on alpha. It's just hard to tell, as it is right now, what you're going to do in game with your particular load.

I just wish I had known this before completely refitting my mech, only to find that instead of hearing other mechs blow up to my 6 LLs, all i hear is "Heat level critical." lol fail.

Generally, from what I can see, with the Smurfy lab you want a 50% or better for alpha calculations. 30% should get your controlled fire just fine too.

I understand the problem.. it's not easy to display a general stat that would display in-game heat efficiency well simply because you can never know how the weapons will be used (probably the reason why devs hardcoded heat discounts for certain weapons in the heat-eff. display): i.e. a sinper ppc build can do well with 30-35% cooling-eff, a laser brawler will need 50-60% at the very least etc.

Thats why smurfy started with the weapon lab: to give players the possibility to increase or decrease the use(the sliders in the weapon lab indicate the % of time used; calculations not only based on alphas) of equipped weapons to be able to better judge the heat.
It's the first implementation but I think it's definitely a step in the right direction.

Edited by Blark, 24 January 2013 - 10:42 PM.

[MonkeyDCecil]

Love your website. I was just wondering if you could add what the upgrades do in the equipment list.

[Edustaja]

I love your website Smurfy! I sincerely hope that you get a hefty paycheck for this work Listen up DEVS!

A couple of features I'd like to see in the weaponlab if at all possible:
- Time to Overheat
- Salvoes to overheat

I usually use these in my Excel builds, but those are so much clumsier.

Edited by Edustaja, 24 January 2013 - 09:41 PM.

[Demochelys]

Hi Smurfy,

Just want to add on the current implementation of "max armor". Could me have another max armor button meaning using all the tonnage left, if it may not hurt a bit? =)

Demochelys
House Kurita - Ryuken-ni attache

[JokerVictor]

This mechlab is incredible, thank you so much.

[ArcDemon]

I think I found a minor bug.

At the moment Max Sustained DPS and Cooling Efficiency are only shown when there are weapons and heat sinks equipped. I can see that with no heat sinks both formulas probably result in a division by 0, and with no weapons the Cooling Efficiency can't be calculated (it's infinite).

However if you load up a mech with the required heat sinks and arm it with machine guns only like a Spider 5K quad gunner (I've seen something like this played, and when you consider the DPS is not far behind the Max Sustained DPS of some viable Commando builds you realize it's not only fun, it could actually be played) it will not show the Max Sustained DPS or Cooling Efficiency and continue to report Firepower as 0.

If you add a Small Laser it still doesn't show the correct Firepower (3 instead of 3.16) but it does show the correct Max Sustained DPS of 2.6 (rather then just 1 from the Small Laser)

A suggested correction would be to always show the Max Sustained DPS, and to show Firepower to 2 decimal places. When no heatsinks are equipped the Max Sustained DPS formula is swapped for one that calculates the sum of the DPS of all weapons that produce 0 heat.

[smurfynet]

MonkeyDCecil, on 24 January 2013 - 03:23 PM, said:

Love your website. I was just wondering if you could add what the upgrades do in the equipment list.

What exactly do you mean, upgrades are on the left hand side.

Edustaja, on 24 January 2013 - 09:38 PM, said:

A couple of features I'd like to see in the weaponlab if at all possible:
- Time to Overheat
- Salvoes to overheat

The next update will have more stats in the weaponlab, more to come.

Demochelys, on 25 January 2013 - 02:45 AM, said:

Just want to add on the current implementation of "max armor". Could me have another max armor button meaning using all the tonnage left, if it may not hurt a bit? =)

as said before, this one is also planned and will come soon

ArcDemon, on 25 January 2013 - 07:50 PM, said:

I think I found a minor bug.

Thank you for your detailed report. I will fix that with the next update.

[Jaded Jasper]

2 simple improvements:
- Start armor on new mech loadouts at max, which is much closer to what people use than 0.
- Allow editing the armor values as text fields, rather than just via clicking plus/minus.

[Blark]

Jaded Jasper, on 26 January 2013 - 04:48 AM, said:

2 simple improvements:
- Start armor on new mech loadouts at max, which is much closer to what people use than 0.
- Allow editing the armor values as text fields, rather than just via clicking plus/minus.

1) there is a max armor function "tools->max armor", or you can just load the stock equip
2) editing armor via text-boxes has been added several patches ago (right tab, same location as in-game)

[Wintersdark]

Suggestion: For the Weaponlab page, allow users to select a second mech from your mechlab to compare the two, so you can directly compare two different builds on the same chart.

[DaisuSaikoro Nagasawa]

Sir, I'm late to this topic but I want to thank you for this application.

It is excellent and is a real help for helping pass on mech designs. This is one of the programs that truly help the community and is a shining gem.

Seyla!

Khan DaisuSaikoro Nagasawa