289 replies to this topic

[Lefty Lucy]

Asakara, on 23 November 2012 - 10:55 AM, said:

On page 219 of my TR 3050 it says under STREAK SHORT RANGE MISSILES: Game Notes:

Before the Streak can be fired, it must have a lock. A player attempting to obtain a lock must make a standard To-Hit Roll as if he were firing a normal SRM. He does this during his turn of the firing phase. If successful, the player may immediately fire his SRMs at the locked-on target. All SRMs automatically hit, and the player rolls as normal to determine the hit locations.

So, from the book, when you get lock and fire, all missiles hit.

so basically it should be significantly more difficult to get the lock in the first place. Probably about as difficult as hitting the target with a ballistic weapon.

[Asakara]

Lefty Lucy, on 23 November 2012 - 01:02 PM, said:

so basically it should be significantly more difficult to get the lock in the first place. Probably about as difficult as hitting the target with a ballistic weapon.

No, look it up yourself, I provided the book and page reference for you. You make a standard To-Hit roll, like the text says. There is nothing indicating that streaks get a +1, +2, etc.. to their To-Hit rolls in any TT rules.

Now, it also says that once you fire your streaks you need make a new To-Hit roll on the next turn where in MWO you maintain your lock after firing as long as the target is in LOS and you move cursor over the target every couple seconds to keep the lock going.

[Lefty Lucy]

Asakara, on 23 November 2012 - 01:39 PM, said:

No, look it up yourself, I provided the book and page reference for you. You make a standard To-Hit roll, like the text says. There is nothing indicating that streaks get a +1, +2, etc.. to their To-Hit rolls in any TT rules.

Now, it also says that once you fire your streaks you need make a new To-Hit roll on the next turn where in MWO you maintain your lock after firing as long as the target is in LOS and you move cursor over the target every couple seconds to keep the lock going.

Yes, a "standard hit roll", so it should be just as difficult to attain a lock with streaks as it is to hit with other weapons. Right now it is significantly easier to attain a lock than it is to hit a moving target with a ballistic weapon, or with the full beam from a laser weapon. Therefore it should be more difficult to establish a lock with streaks.

I think the idea of streaks automatically losing lock after a volley hits would be a good change.

[Hakkukakt]

and one thing ... why people think we need to put an xl315 on a streakcat ? .... they are no need ... a 315 standard do well the job

Edited by Hakkukakt, 23 November 2012 - 01:48 PM.

[topgun505]

Lights will absolutely not fix Streak-cats in their present form. Lights have to get in close to employ most of their weaponry, and the moment they close it's an iffy proposition at best. If you can get the jump on one and get in behind his 3-9 line you have a chance at least. But if he calls in help and you have to break contact ... you'd better hope there is some sort of cover within 300m or else you will be dead before you can get out of range. If you can't get behind his 3-9 line then yer done. He can fire a full 90 degrees + off the centerline and the black smoke caused by them obscures your vision so you can't just "Go for the cockpit" as some people suggest. You can't hit what you can't see. Sure you can aim for the hud box ... but that's going to do you much good in trying to take off anything important in a timely fashion.

Hakkukakt, on 23 November 2012 - 09:57 AM, said:

well ... i think the streakcat will be less present on battleground when the light were fixed too, that's the only reason why i use it actually ... normaly, i prefer use my normal cat brawler that are more firepower on it

[Onyx Rain]

I do not pilot strk2 cats.... about the closest I come is a aws-9m with strks.....I don't mind em, their range is terrible....THEY ARE NOT OP.


Learn to use your targeting computer, and take out the biggest threats before you and/or they get to close...simple.

To many sissies in this game that cry every time something kills them.

[WhiteCatInsurgency]

Streaks are not the problem. 75% free ammo is.

Edited by WhiteCatInsurgency, 23 November 2012 - 07:46 PM.

[MWHawke]

Lefty Lucy, on 23 November 2012 - 01:46 PM, said:

Yes, a "standard hit roll", so it should be just as difficult to attain a lock with streaks as it is to hit with other weapons. Right now it is significantly easier to attain a lock than it is to hit a moving target with a ballistic weapon, or with the full beam from a laser weapon. Therefore it should be more difficult to establish a lock with streaks.

I think the idea of streaks automatically losing lock after a volley hits would be a good change.

How does a ballistic weapon lock on a target? The comparison should be with LRMs.

Asakara, on 23 November 2012 - 10:55 AM, said:

On page 219 of my TR 3050 it says under STREAK SHORT RANGE MISSILES: Game Notes:

Before the Streak can be fired, it must have a lock. A player attempting to obtain a lock must make a standard To-Hit Roll as if he were firing a normal SRM. He does this during his turn of the firing phase. If successful, the player may immediately fire his SRMs at the locked-on target. All SRMs automatically hit, and the player rolls as normal to determine the hit locations.

So, from the book, when you get lock and fire, all missiles hit.

Thus my post stating that the damage should be spread into random 5 point clusters surrounding the area aimed for.

topgun505, on 23 November 2012 - 07:36 PM, said:

Lights will absolutely not fix Streak-cats in their present form. Lights have to get in close to employ most of their weaponry, and the moment they close it's an iffy proposition at best. If you can get the jump on one and get in behind his 3-9 line you have a chance at least. But if he calls in help and you have to break contact ... you'd better hope there is some sort of cover within 300m or else you will be dead before you can get out of range. If you can't get behind his 3-9 line then yer done. He can fire a full 90 degrees + off the centerline and the black smoke caused by them obscures your vision so you can't just "Go for the cockpit" as some people suggest. You can't hit what you can't see. Sure you can aim for the hud box ... but that's going to do you much good in trying to take off anything important in a timely fashion.

I think he meant to say that people are using streakcats to hunt lights and if netcode was fixed, people would be less reliant on streakcats as they can stock up on other weapons to kill lights.

[Cmdr Harabec]

Streaks are only half the problem.

Time and time again the Catapult has proven itself to be an overpowered mech due in large part to its unnaturally high agility, which is really unbefitting of a support mech. The highest torso twist in the game on a dedicated support mech, and tiny unshootable sidetorsos that can mount the largest ballistic weapons in the game? The best mech for missile boating, heavy ballistics boating, and just about the best mech for laser boating, too. It's a little absurd, and the Devs need to nerf it.

Streaks do need a nerf as well, though. I actually like the idea of having to achieve lockon again after having fired streaks, but I dunno.

The biggest thing with them to me is that their impact force is absurd. They and AC/2s should be doing next to nothing when they impact you. SRM6s might should be jarring you around a bit, but not too much. A full LRM20 salvo hitting you, or an AC/20 round, should be doing the shake you receive from AC2s and AC5s and SSRMs right now. It's just stupid.

[Lefty Lucy]

MWHawke, on 24 November 2012 - 01:13 AM, said:

How does a ballistic weapon lock on a target? The comparison should be with LRMs.

The point is that in TT the missile lock requires exactly as much "skill" as it takes to hit the target with a ballistic weapon: a base hit roll.

Therefore it should be just as difficult to achieve lock as it is to hit with a ballistic weapon.

[MajorLeeHung]

Oinkage, on 21 November 2012 - 12:24 PM, said:

JokerVictor, SSRM cats can be beaten. They have some specific weaknesses. Specifically, you can power down and they cannot shoot you at all unless they mount standard SRM as well. Additionally, they are on the Catapult chassis which is very easy to head shot. Also, their weapon pods are all on their arms in huge boxes. Shoot them off... Currently, the spread of damage across armor is much better than all hits on CT. I do not currently own an A1, but I have used it in the past. I find them too easy to disarm or disable to consider in a serious match environment.

if your running an A1 without the new mod that lets your target powered down mechs then your a fool lol. problem solved!

[MWHawke]

Lefty Lucy, on 24 November 2012 - 01:42 AM, said:

The point is that in TT the missile lock requires exactly as much "skill" as it takes to hit the target with a ballistic weapon: a base hit roll.

Therefore it should be just as difficult to achieve lock as it is to hit with a ballistic weapon.

Well, you have to maintain your crosshair over the target for much longer than a ballistic weapon. A ballistic weapon is point and shoot.

[Tarys]

As many other people i pretty much hate streak boats ... so how about
- damage buff "rollback" to what it was before
- 1-2 SSRM equipped -> they all hit the same spot; not necessarly the center torso
- 2-4 SSRM equipped -> they spread like it is right now
- 5-6 SSRM equipped -> they spread and have the chance to actually miss the target like they did before the "fix"

Maybe that would encourage people to use a different loadout.

[5th Fedcom Rat]

Lykaon, on 23 November 2012 - 05:44 AM, said:

Let's use the A1 catapult as an example.

Table top rules: Make 6 seperate rolls to hit.A fairly average to hit number for the table top game for firing at pointblank range at a moderatley speedy target while moving yourself (conditions similar to average MWo combats) would be around 8.

Four gunnery skill.
+2 for target movement.
+2 for attacker's movement.

Fewer than half the missiles will strike the target.

Meanwhile in MWo with the exspectations that streaks will hit 100% of the time with 100% of the missiles when the target is locked means the "gunner" needs to keep a curser on target for 2 seconds to maintain a lock and have every single launcher hit with 100% accuracy.Much much easyer than rolling six times to get eight or better on two D6s.

There is a distinct lack of ballancing mechanics when it comes to streaks in MWo.If we are to expect weapon performances to reflect the table top game then we need to also account for the mitigating factors that apply to those weapons sytems.

If players want 100% accuracy with 100% of the ordnance when streaks are fired at locked on targets (table top game performance) then we need to also intergrate some limiting factor that accounts for aprox 50% "miss" rate for table top streaks under what is fairly common use.

Yeah, I think people here are getting close to a solution to the streak problem.

1) Changing it so lock has to be reaquired each time you fire a streak would automatically reduce the rate of fire, and hence lethality of the silly little SRM-2. Furthermore, this would be much more consistent with the TT rules and their to-hit dice roll mechanic. Chain firing streaks in a consistent long string while moving against a moving opponent is simply impossible in the TT unless you get a 1 in a million dice roll.

2) Massively toning down the screen shake and eliminating the smoke and blur/darkening effect. These are puny little SMR-2s here, the smallest missile launcher in the game. They shouldn't cause horrific screen rocking while the huge caliber AC/20 and gauss cause virtually none. It's competely ridiculous.

These two change would give you a breather and a fighting chance to actually shoot back at a streak cat that is circling you at 80 km/h or flutter hovering above you. Make them work for their kills for once.

.

Edited by 5th Fedcom Rat, 24 November 2012 - 02:53 AM.

[Asmosis]

The only reason ssrms might seem OP to some (who for some reason can't stay outside 270 in mechs faster than streakcats) is they ignore lagshield. So basically Jenner pilots complaining they take more damage from ssrms than most other things. duh.

TT rules werent designed with a FPS in mind. hey lets just roll dice everytime we fire at someone instead of using the targetting recticles, thats a great idea. we can turn it into a FPSMMORPG.

[Cmdr Harabec]

Asmosis, on 24 November 2012 - 02:47 AM, said:

The only reason ssrms might seem OP to some (who for some reason can't stay outside 270 in mechs faster than streakcats) is they ignore lagshield. So basically Jenner pilots complaining they take more damage from ssrms than most other things. duh.

TT rules werent designed with a FPS in mind. hey lets just roll dice everytime we fire at someone instead of using the targetting recticles, thats a great idea. we can turn it into a FPSMMORPG.

Actually, the problems are from mechs that are slower than Streakcats - which is the majority of Mechs. There's also the Catapult's ridiculous torso twist (which it shouldn't really have) and jumpjets to account for making it very mobile and capable of tracking targets very well. Add into that it can mount an XL with no repercussions because you can't shoot out the sidetorsos - not that a Streakcat needs to, but why not? Especially with 75% free rearm you can just use that tonnage for extra ammo all over the place and never run out.

[5th Fedcom Rat]

Asmosis, on 24 November 2012 - 02:47 AM, said:

The only reason ssrms might seem OP to some (who for some reason can't stay outside 270 in mechs faster than streakcats) is they ignore lagshield. So basically Jenner pilots complaining they take more damage from ssrms than most other things. duh.

PGI shouldn't use a no-aim weapon to compensate for their own netcode issues. They should get servers up in other parts of the world, not cheapen this game by further buffing a missile launcher that is superior to all aimed weapons.

Also, I see jenners abusing streaks right now just as much as anything else. They circle strafe mechs to death with them more effectively than they do with lasers. Anything that has a missile hard point and isn't a fire support mech is mounting almost nothing but streaks at the moment. That alone shows something is wrong.

.

Edited by 5th Fedcom Rat, 24 November 2012 - 03:02 AM.

[Durahl]

My opinoin on the CPLT-A1 with 6x SSRM's is the following:

Macroing/Programmable Hardware:
Whenever I spectate these Players on my Team the CD's of the SSRM's are timed so they'll rain down a continuous stream instead of just 1 or 2 Volleys making it obvious that they're using programmable Hardware enabling this behaviour. The Manual version of this can be done by changing the Firing mode from Group Fire to Single Fire but lets be honest... Not really happening because it's just so much easier to use the hardware than timing it yourself.

But I'm cool with that. People should be able to make use of the hardware they bought. I own hardware like this myself but I don't use this particular feature because, for me, it's not fun to play like this since the game becomes so mindless if the only thing you have to do is watch where you run and at some point just hold the trigger in the general direction.

It's also the reason I almost never use LRM's / never use SSRM's.

PGI Approved Aimbot:
Something I noticed as a spectator, as a player on the receiving end and as someone overlooking a fight between a CPLT-A1 Pilot and some poor sucker is the thing about the firing arc of either the SSRM's or the CPLT-A1. I've regularily seen missiles coming out of the sides of the POD's and sometimes even out of the back giving me a serious headscratch.

The Fact that SSRM's now hit the CT for 100% unless blocked in it's path by another Mech Section is another thing that worries me...
I think it would be better if they'd have an overall 100% chance to hit the Mech like a Shotgun and not just a specific section of it like a Rocket Propelled Sniper.

Secondary Effects/Active Denial System:
Whenever I'm on the receiving end of thes CPLT-A1 the thing that annoys me the most is not the actual damage but the inability to strike back at them because of all that shaking and, even worse, that platinum annoying blur rendering your view useless.
By now I've seen lots of players suggesting "Reticule stays at it's place, just shoot, ignore the blur!" but that's not helping at all because the CPLT-A1 won't stay at the same place.

If the CPLT-A1 Pilot changes his position every 2-3 seconds by Jumpjetting all over the place and you can't see where he went off to then just firing at the last known position won't really help.

This btw. is my greatest concern with the weapon - SSRM's and AC's shouldn't turn into an ADS by blurring your FoV into Kingdom Kong.

[Red Klown X]

Streak Kitty

[Autofire]

Gotta agree, SSRM boats are getting a bit out of hand, not gonna flame em but when you get trounced by 2-3 per team and a game ends in less than 5 min, it gets a bit irritating. Can't complain about the pug teams, people were trying at least a little bit to press.