457 replies to this topic

[Metalfyre]

Inappropriate1191, on 08 December 2012 - 08:58 PM, said:

I like clan tech and omnimechs, and... that's about it. The more I read on the clan, the more I despise them. I also can't help but to chafe at clan fans a bit, simply because of the kind of personality that's attracted to that. Usually someone indoctrinated into some notion of a 'greater good' but doesn't have a grasp of what that greater good will cost. Much like this one Down's Syndrome, abortion survivor (Seriously, I can't say '1D10T' on these forums?) here... The IS factions, as USA-grade ret.ar.ded that they are, at least don't live under the delusions of a kinder, gentler tyranny that somehow manages to also maintain the Spartan way (Also note, I detest the Spartan civilization, and all fanboys of said culture). Of course, there's also the horrible, crappy leadership of the clans, and how they maintain a Geneva/UN-like way of trying to pretty up warfare. It's like how the politically-correct fascists think that you can somehow polish a tu.rd (Seriously?) and turn it into gold. No, the only good thing about the clannerscum is the fact that I take my atlas, smash an omnimech or two, and steal it's parts. An atlas with endosteel, Clan XL engine, all-Clan weapons, and clan rig? Something to be feared. Edit: I had to go back and make a lot of words look pretty dumb because someone put a kindergarten-grade censorship program in the forums. Jesus Christ, Mohammad, and Buddha.

If this is what draws your ire towards the Clans, then pretty much every IS faction should receive the same venom. Every single Successor Lord's goal is to become the First Lord of the Star League. Before the pseudo Star League was created (which is more similar to your UN/Geneva style than a Clan kurultai), the means to this end was conquest. Given this, and the fact that every House's succession is family-based, the term 'tyranny' applies more towards the IS factions than the Clans; if any of the Great Houses had succeeded in subjugating the Inner Sphere with brute force, the entire IS would have been under what can generously be attributed to as 'monarchy'.

Even when the Houses 'united' under the pseudo Star League in the face of the Clan invasions, the First Lord in each case acted in the interests of his own House rather than as befits the head of the Star League. This happens with the ilkhan, yes...but by a far lesser extent. Ulric Kerensky did not use his position as ilkhan to place 'coalition forces' in Jade Falcon territory during their Trial, where Sun Tzu Liao did against St. Ives...exploiting the fact that their strongest units were away fighting the Clans, an action that benefits the Star League.

Nothing remotely Spartan about Clans btw. Spartans check out their baby boys for defects, toss the weak ones off a cliff. All trueborn (and to a lesser extent, freeborn) clanners go through warrior training where they are flushed out if not deemed competent enough. Those flushed out are moved to a field where they scored better on, not dropped off a cliff. The first principle behind this is the Clan mentality of not wasting anything. If you're not good enough to be a Warrior, we will let you be what you're best at. This is hardly 'Spartan'. Sure, most Warriors look down on Techs and Scientists etc. But for a society bred for war, you have to understand that being a Warrior is equivalent to being that new found singing sensation in the next installment of American Idol or something. Some pop idols will disdain the everyday office worker, some everyday office worker will wish he could rise up and become the next popstar.

I like Clan lore. Yep, I am one of those you'd go 'Seriously?' at when the term you angled at me gets censored in the forum xD
They do not 'pretty up' warfare, but they sure as hell contain it. Done their way in proper bidding, you get no collateral damage, minimal loss of life and hardware. There is honour; no trying to wrangle their way out of words said. Star Captain Trent is an exception; there are always exceptions. Moreover, the promises he tried to extract from the Star League in exchange for revealing Huntress' location...which of those were fulfilled by anyone in the IS? After he'd fulfilled his purpose and there was no further need for him, they bury him in a corner until he takes his own life in despair. Shafted.

[Joanna Conners]

There's always some group that tries to civilize war. They always fail. Doesn't matter if it's a historical sense, modern or fictional. War is uncivilized business.

[James Pryde IIC]

I did not have a choice about it

I was born into the world of Mechwarrior 2

(I was about 8, and earnt my wings in the Refusal War)

As in, it was my first game, and I (when I first played it), did not know anything about the Inner Sphere, I guess I was Sibko raised and indoctrinated , then like 5 years later, I learnt the history of Battletech, and still decided, since my first game was Mechwarrior 2, and I felt most connected to Jade Falcon, that that would be my allegiance !

Also in real life I am a very Militaristic man, so naturally felt the connection.

Also in many real life drama's, Clan lore, (the ideals) have helped me through many a problems, and has been one of the consistent things throughout my life.

Seylah

[Camren]

Im a clan sider.... i love war and i love good mechs! The clans have great mechs. Call me a world killer but im on the winning side thank you! >

[Jack Deichgraf]

The only appeal the Clans held for me where the specially breed groundtroops ("Elementals", at least in german they where called that) and their crests. I like the idea of going with a totem animal.
Thats why Marik and Rasalhague are my favourite IS houses

[Pando]

Some people are elitest.

[HAAUK]

I just don't think too much...

get into my Timber Wolf and fight...

My heart's with the clan because......

They have cake... real good cake...

IS only has pie

[Sadistic Savior]

GabrielKnight, on 26 November 2012 - 10:28 AM, said:

There was a time in my wayward youth when I was a Clanner at heart, but after a few years away from Battletech I've come back to this game and frankly...the clans repulse me. Institutionalised racism, caste based society, eugenics, disregard for sound military tactics... No thanks.
I'd rather be freebirth scum these days! Maybe I've grown up a bit.
What draws you to the Clan way?

Disclaimer: This is meant to be a lighthearted post. Please don't degenerate into flames.

Here is why I liked them in the novels:

They are a true meritocracy and took steps to get rid of corruption and advance themselves. They represent the best ideals of communism. While they did technically have institutionalized racism, it is not what we would consider racism. They do not care what color your skin or eyes are. They do not care what ethnic background you came from. They care about what you can DO.

And yes, that is true even of Freebirths. Even a Freebirth can advance in their society if he is capable enough. There might be bias against him, but the doors remain open. I love this section of the Remembrance, as it describes who they are perfectly:

Quote

No natural calamities cost you.
There was no great disease, no famines;
No interstellar catastrophe to blame.
You have no excuse to explain
How this, our rightful palace, has been fouled
With the dust of countless innocent dead.
The truth is that you are the descendants of traitors,
who scurry about like rats in the dark,
fighting over petty kingdoms, at the foot of an empty throne.
Never recognizing that you have given up the one true prize.

-- The Remembrance, Passage 285, Verse 15, Lines 21-32

As to why they are so popular...I don't think it is just the power. I think it is the "alien-ness" of them. I remember the first novel they appeared in, and how creepy the initial description was. The Inner sphere had never encountered Elementals before, and these weird mini-mechs were physically tearing them apart.

And lets face it...it isn't as if the Inner Sphere states were blushing virgins or anything. There were no true democracies in the Inner Sphere (House Marik is technically not a democracy either)...dictatorships and autocracies were the norm. And so were various atrocities So it is not as if the Clans are really any worse anyway. And they do value all members of their society, at least officially.

Quote

Five, Nicholas proclaimed, was the foundation
Upon which our true society was to be built.

Laborers to till the land, to do the tasks.
They shall have our undying gratitude,
For they are the muscle behind us all.

Merchants to buy and sell with fairness.
They shall have our commerce and respect,
For they are the bones upon which we are built.

Technicians to build and fix the machines.
They shall have our admiration,
For they are the fingers with which we grasp life.

Scientists to create and discover.
They shall have our awe and our attention,
For they are the mind of our society.

And above all, the Warriors who protect.
They shall have our cooperation and worship,
For they are the blood and soul of us all.

-- The Remembrance, Passage 67, Verse 26, Lines 21-37

I personally loved the Clans in the books, and devoured any novels I could find that were Clan-centric. But I am really happy to see that this game focuses more on the Inner Sphere...as that is the real heart of Battletech. The adaptability of the Clan mechs makes them unappealing to me, as they come across as generic...but IS mechs are all unique and all look and perform different, and that makes them more interesting to me.

Edited by Sadistic Savior, 19 January 2013 - 07:10 PM.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

Inappropriate1191, on 08 December 2012 - 08:58 PM, said:

I like clan tech and omnimechs, and... that's about it. The more I read on the clan, the more I despise them. I also can't help but to chafe at clan fans a bit, simply because of the kind of personality that's attracted to that. Usually someone indoctrinated into some notion of a 'greater good' but doesn't have a grasp of what that greater good will cost. Much like this one Down's Syndrome, abortion survivor (Seriously, I can't say '1D10T' on these forums?) here...



The IS factions, as USA-grade ret.ar.ded that they are, at least don't live under the delusions of a kinder, gentler tyranny that somehow manages to also maintain the Spartan way (Also note, I detest the Spartan civilization, and all fanboys of said culture). Of course, there's also the horrible, crappy leadership of the clans, and how they maintain a Geneva/UN-like way of trying to pretty up warfare. It's like how the politically-correct fascists think that you can somehow polish a tu.rd (Seriously?) and turn it into gold.

No, the only good thing about the clannerscum is the fact that I take my atlas, smash an omnimech or two, and steal it's parts. An atlas with endosteel, Clan XL engine, all-Clan weapons, and clan rig? Something to be feared.

Edit: I had to go back and make a lot of words look pretty dumb because someone put a kindergarten-grade censorship program in the forums. Jesus Christ, Mohammad, and Buddha.

This.

The TT House I played at had about 20 people that played BT using the 3025 TRO. We had a blast. Then the House owner decided to change the house rules and have us all running the 3050 TRO. At first it was great because another 10 people joined the club. Then all of a sudden during one gaming weekend, about 20 clan kids showed up. It went down the ******* at that point.

They trash talked. Were rude. They expected us to play by THEIR rules and not the way of the IS. They were overall just immature F-tards that killed the BT crowd at the gaming house. After about 6 months of the clan kids being around, attendance for BT dropped drastically.

So that's why I hate the clans.

[Cachucho]

For me it was how they ritualized an regulated warfare to minimize damage and casualties while at same time making it the prime source of resolving conflicts.

Regardless of a state of constant warfare between all the clans on a basic free for all, they have actually developed their planets, and evolved their technology to a point better than star league technology.

Of course their society structure is still abhorrent in almost all ways. And yet they value principles of conduct more than winning, and honor as not something shallow and empty.


But if you ask me, most just like them because of the edge it gives them, least at the start of the invasion.

Edited by Cachucho, 20 January 2013 - 06:26 AM.

[Gremlich Johns]

I think we should have rollerball to resolve international disputes ala Clan Trials

Cachucho, on 20 January 2013 - 06:25 AM, said:

But if you ask me, most just like them because of the edge it gives them, least at the start of the invasion.

and they only sent four clans.......

[Writer]

The Clans repulse me. I also can't take almost any of them seriously because of furries and sperg-lords who might as well spray 3 wolf moon on the side of their mech. "DarkWolf871" - what a joke.

Then there's the quasi-mary sue nonsense of Clan Wolf, or the constant stream of Ghost Bear apologists.

The only clans I can tolerate are the Jade Falcons and Smoke Jaguar. They play a villainous role in the story with a clear character identity. The fluff and fans never try to pretend they're anything else. Their beliefs are straight forward, and there are few apologists in the fan community.

[Rejarial Galatan]

I am a fan of the Clans because that was what I came in playing and I enjoy the story arcs they present me. The Inner Sphere, is just too lack luster and convoluted for my taste.

[Gammanoob]

I am a (most honorable) pirate of the Inner Sphere and Periphery, but I promise to help free the Clans from the heavy burden of their technology.

[DanboyD]

Where the true pull of the Clans come from is that, people love thinking, I WAS BRED FOR WAR. I am better on a GENETIC level, than IS pilots. I have been taught the honorable way to fight an enemy. I do not use cowards methods to obtain victory. Who wouldn't LOVE to be in a position to say that? The reality is that they have better weapons, they have better soldiers, but that is all people can apparently pay any attention to. They ignore the fact that most Clan citizens are not warriors, those who aren't are treated like ****. YOU LIVE IN A SOCIETY THAT VALUES A WARRIOR, but a small percent of people ever become warriors. Most deeply invested IS roleplayers (using the term loosely to describe anyone who plays like they are representing their house.) are not as radical as the Clan roleplayers. I always find those Clanners telling me how they are superior, and that Terra will be freed, ramble ramble ramble.


As a disclaimer, I am only basing this post's opinions on my own expierence with Clan players in both MW:O, and MW:LL. And life expeirence with a few siblings that have looked into this game, and found the Clans the "better" side. I asked them why they thought Clans were the best, they responded by saying, "The Clans have better weapons, and technology, and the have better soldiers, bred for war." If they were better educated in the history of the game, I have a feeling they would not be so taken with the clans.

[CG Oglethorpe Kerensky]

Ahh yes the Grand Society where everything and everyone is focused on the perfection of the art of death and destruction. A culture that doesn't prize peace, harmony, love, and prosperity, but instead the most elegant way to kill other human beings.

Imagine what a joy it must be...
Your born into the Laborer caste, lets take a look at your life.
Since you were born from laborer parents, you WILL be a laborer. Only very rare exceptions will head to the warrior caste, and IF they survive they can expect to be sent to a backwater world and put in a crappy mech.
You cannot vote, you cannot hold a position in the government. Your government is the warrior caste, and they have a special way of describing you, "Freebirth Scum." AKA barely human
You cannot ask your 'government' for redress, there are no courts.
You are allowed to pick your own spouse, as long as he/she is in the same caste
You are not allowed to have money, you get 'credits' which can only be used for a pre-approved list of goods
If you don't like your lot in life, you can always join the bandit caste and get hunted down for target practice

However, you can do NOTHING to improve your lot in life. You are utterly powerless.
Enjoy this great 'meritocracy'.

[Victory]

To OP: Because not everyone is an Inner Sphere bootlick?

[Stormwolf]

CG Oglethorpe Kerensky, on 24 January 2013 - 05:52 PM, said:

Ahh yes the Grand Society where everything and everyone is focused on the perfection of the art of death and destruction. A culture that doesn't prize peace, harmony, love, and prosperity, but instead the most elegant way to kill other human beings.

Imagine what a joy it must be...
Your born into the Laborer caste, lets take a look at your life.
Since you were born from laborer parents, you WILL be a laborer. Only very rare exceptions will head to the warrior caste, and IF they survive they can expect to be sent to a backwater world and put in a crappy mech.

That didn't prevent Horse and many others from becoming awesome warriors. and to be fair, the majority of trueborns also end up in non-warrior castes.

Quote

You cannot vote, you cannot hold a position in the government. Your government is the warrior caste, and they have a special way of describing you, "Freebirth Scum." AKA barely human

There have been Clan wide voting issues like the renaming of Clan Sea Fox. True, many trueborns are d-bags when it comes to freeborns, but there also many pro-freeborn trueborns around. This often creates something of a rift among units.

Quote

You cannot ask your 'government' for redress, there are no courts.

There are courts, but yes, the government won't give any financial compensation.

Quote

You are allowed to pick your own spouse, as long as he/she is in the same caste

This is a bit fuzzy depending on the Clan, Horse's parents were from two different castes for instance. Though IIRC, it was mandatory early in Clan society.

Quote

You are not allowed to have money, you get 'credits' which can only be used for a pre-approved list of goods

It's essentially like communism, however a large number of liberties are taken in the scientist and merchant castes. Cranston Snord is a great example here.

Quote

If you don't like your lot in life, you can always join the bandit caste and get hunted down for target practice

This happens, but it's no different from the criminal underbelly in the Inner Sphere.

Quote

However, you can do NOTHING to improve your lot in life. You are utterly powerless.


Enjoy this great 'meritocracy'.

You are tested from a young age, there are plenty of shots for all the people here. Besides, in the post-Jih@d era the homeworld Clans have become far more lenient towards their freeborn population. Clan Ghost Bear event went as far as reactivating the KungsArme and giving them Clan gear.

Contrast this to the Inner Sphere, you are nothing unless you are of noble blood or are lucky enough to inherit a mech from your parents. The Clans give you shots at achieving this without having the correct connections or family lines. Only the Republic of the Sphere breaks the mold here.

Edited by Stormwolf, 25 January 2013 - 05:29 AM.

[Adridos]

I'm not a Clanner myself, but most people grew up with Clansners just like you did and which child doesn't love being the super-warrior (just look at the popularity of those atrocious super-hero comics)?

Generally, it could be the same qustion as why do people love samurais, and ninjas, and knights and etc.

[Ken Fury]

Vanguard319, on 19 December 2012 - 11:24 PM, said:

One more thing I like about the clans, You actually HAVE to prove you are worthy to lead, rather than be lucky enough to "know somebody". Also, the Clans value thier history, and even respect and honor thier worthy enemies. (Seriously, Tyra Miraborg, an IS pilot is immortalized in the Rememberance.)

Oh god thank you. I always hated the Clans but know that you told me that their Leaders are being decided by combat it changes everything. Naturally someone who is good at killing, is a better leader than everyone else. It all makes sense now.