87 replies to this topic

[Agent of Change]

Vila deVere, on 27 November 2012 - 06:38 AM, said:

In my view, 90% of the "matchmaker" issues could be solved with a CW system that naturally segrates new, lower skilled, and lone wolf players from the more experienced, higher skill, and team based players. A "matchmaker" is essentially unecessary if players naturally gravitate to the fights that suit them, or which are defined for them by their experience, group state, and allegience. PGI should have have CW integrated from the very beginning IMO. But they didn't do that, so here we are.

This. so much this.

In addition I believe the game could have benefited from another month or two in Closed beta to hash out exactly what we are seeing now. it was a bit of a mistake IMO to have gone open beta as incomplete as the game is, especially with major game changing mechanics still no where near implementation. (I know open beta doesn't mean complete but it should be closer to done and polished than not.)

It's all spilled milk at this point but what I believe needs to be addressed post haste is the stability issues, reasonable team v. team mechanics, lag fixes and weapon balance. I'm not saying they aren't working on them but the sooner they show progress on these the better.

[Tex Arcana]

The same arguments exist in all sphere's of combat.
Many here are similar to the elititst howling that goes on over at World of Tanks.
Having just begun pugging myself in order to build up credits; and having been a pug player in WoT for 2 years (with occasional platoons), I'll say this:
Pugs are the lifeblood of any game that wants to succeed and move forward.
Though with MWO I see promising signs of encouraging pugs to "Form up" with others for combat via TS etc.
I have hopes that the community here will focus on continuing to provide that encouragement.
Having played a few matches thus far; i have to say I'm impressed with what I've seen.
Plenty of room for improvement but the combat and the visuals are very nice.
As long as the Devs continue to deal with weapon balance, Lag improvements, and the game stability while forging ahead: I see good things happening.

[I WildCard I]

I am a player who valued my 8 man drops. I enjoyed the collaboration and teamwork required to dominate the enemy. I will admit though that approx 70% of the time we would just roll over the other team. While sometimes this was fun I grew tired of just consistently roflstomping people into nothingness. While i miss the camraderie of an 8 man group, it was a necessary implementation to put in 4 man groups only. At least while they fine tune the 8v8 que. I would like you all to picture those 8 man premade games you played in where you stomped the other team as I have. Think of how many people quit their session early for the night out of frustration, or wrote the game off altogether. (I know for a fact ive caused at least one person to do this.)

Im not speaking as a guy who misses his 8 man groups and DEMANDS they come back, or a pug who thinks all the premades should stop whining. I am writing this from the perspective of a player who likes what hes seen in MWO thus far, and is excited for what is to come. You know whats required to ensure the longevity of this stompyrobotdeathmatch? A consistent playerbase While I dont agree entirely with the removal of 8 mans im all for making concessions for the greater good of the game.

[Imagine Dragons]

Agent of Change, on 27 November 2012 - 06:59 AM, said:

This. so much this.

In addition I believe the game could have benefited from another month or two in Closed beta to hash out exactly what we are seeing now. it was a bit of a mistake IMO to have gone open beta as incomplete as the game is, especially with major game changing mechanics still no where near implementation. (I know open beta doesn't mean complete but it should be closer to done and polished than not.)

Agreed, CW should of been implemented from the start, it should not have been very difficult...

Alas, thats not the case now...

[GalaxyBluestar]

as someone who doesn't want to dedicate myself to any faction as i'm here for simple gaming fun, i cannot aford time to organise myself to do battle's when others want to. if i was apart of a faction i'd never been online when they were fighting anyways. for me this game is just my choice of leisure cause i remember enjoying old mech warrior games.

saying that i understand quiet clearly just how frustrating pugs can be when they think they can do their own thing, become a liability and let the team down in strentgh. if their's a premade with a commander i will always be willing to work with him/her for the good of implementing the strentgh of combined firepower where needed. that's how you win ANY war but some premades act like snobs who insult you cause other pugs give pugs bad names. please just call them noobs that's what noob was invented for. of course pugs will be of no use to you if you don't COMMUNICATE with them. you wonder why they aren't sticking by you well have you told them what you want to do and how it should be done? i can't speak for all pugs and infact i'd be stupid to do so cause many pugs can't help because they need to be in a learner stage to be able to drive the mech properly much less go to war, but this became open beta before that was put in so every match is a competative one. that is not a pug or premade problem but an idiots releasing game to early problem. a common problem that one is.

speaking for myself and trying to advise anyone who pugs, always listen to what others are doing and work with it not against it, even question orders from time to time and both parties can learn the best way to tackle things. until we have the game more flexible and not forcing premades and pugs of all different skills and strentghs to mix it up i'm afraid comms are vital for organising and survival. so don't be snobbish pugs and premades work together and unite or be devided and fall.

Edited by GalaxyBluestar, 27 November 2012 - 09:44 PM.

[Secundus]

OP whines about PGI listening to the whiners. Maybe that's his strategy?

[Valore]

Argument's easily solved.

Some claim there are more premades, some claim there are more pugs.

Once those are separated, we'll see which is more popular.

Give individuals an option to select 'drop me with premades'. And allow less than 8 man groups.

Edited by Valore, 27 November 2012 - 10:11 PM.

[Dataman]

said PGI shouldn't listen to whiners

OP whining.

Edited by Dataman, 28 November 2012 - 11:43 PM.

[GalaxyBluestar]

a selection tool for premade match or pug match would be a great start!

[Belkor]

Stone Wall, on 26 November 2012 - 11:41 AM, said:

a group doesn't add individual pilot skills. all it adds is more information than a usual PUG game. many times premade teams would still lose 8 on 8 against a PUG team.

someone yelling "protect the base" over a mic doesn't mean the base is protected.

This is a blatant lie. Premades get experienced well equipped mechs against new players in trial mechs.

[Agent of Change]

Belkor, on 27 November 2012 - 11:43 PM, said:

This is a blatant lie. Premades get experienced well equipped mechs against new players in trial mechs.

Wow someone has clearly shown both bias and ignorance. I can't speak for every group but I happen to know MY group often brings new players with their trial mechs in to play with us, I also happen to know for a fact that many of the new names on the ts servers are new players in trial mechs starting to learn actual teamwork, coordination, pick up tips for playing, and add some bonus enjoyment to this game while they slog through the initial grind.

That you are more likely to have experienced players in customized mechs that's not an unreasonable assumption but to state that it is always the case is patently untrue. And It is in fact the case that just because people are on comms and drop together doesn't make it an auto-win button, these things are tools (like the mechs, tactics, and weapons) and it only really matter how well they are used. Playing without them is simply choosing (some would say foolishly) to remove those tools from your arsenal.

[Shiney]

I HAVE to agree with the OP.

The CORE players are the team players, most of them are founders oh and guess what PAID. Seriously, catering first to those who haven't put up the cash, who whine incessantly [yes this is a whine but it comes after putting up with this garbage for a while] and who will be gone next week not having put in a thing to this game are NOT your player base. Yes 'we' [you know the premades] are FED UP, our numbers are dwindling just look on Teamspeak these days our support base diminishing and this is going to hurt you guys. It's your company, not telling you how to run it, I'm just concerned that you're not seeing the bigger picture correctly.

[Belkor]

Agent of Change, on 28 November 2012 - 05:32 AM, said:

Wow someone has clearly shown both bias and ignorance. I can't speak for every group but I happen to know MY group often brings new players with their trial mechs in to play with us, I also happen to know for a fact that many of the new names on the ts servers are new players in trial mechs starting to learn actual teamwork, coordination, pick up tips for playing, and add some bonus enjoyment to this game while they slog through the initial grind.

That you are more likely to have experienced players in customized mechs that's not an unreasonable assumption but to state that it is always the case is patently untrue. And It is in fact the case that just because people are on comms and drop together doesn't make it an auto-win button, these things are tools (like the mechs, tactics, and weapons) and it only really matter how well they are used. Playing without them is simply choosing (some would say foolishly) to remove those tools from your arsenal.

Look at you trying to spin your own bias and ignorance. Where did I say "always"? And you certainly can't guarantee that all other premades aren't bringing experienced, well equipped mechs. If you really want to claim that premades don't have the op advantage of well equipped mechs, then you would accept limiting premades to trial mechs right? Otherwise, you're full of it.

Edited by Belkor, 28 November 2012 - 03:13 PM.

[Agent of Change]

Belkor, on 28 November 2012 - 03:10 PM, said:

Look at you trying to spin your own bias and ignorance. Where did I say "always"? And you certainly can't guarantee that all other premades aren't bringing experienced, well equipped mechs. If you really want to claim that premades don't have the op advantage of well equipped mechs, then you would accept limiting premades to trial mechs right? Otherwise, you're full of it.

you made an unqualified blanket statement and I called you on it and now you are back pedaling... and putting words in my mouth, I specifically said "That you are more likely to have experienced players in customized mechs that's not an unreasonable assumption" and you quoted it, I'm not even sure you are reading what you respond to.

You certainly can't guarantee that all other premades are bringing experienced , well equipped mechs (most will have some to be sure). Nor can you say that there aren't as many 'experienced, well equipped mechs' that aren't in premades (most likely out number the premade players by a large number), nor can you say that premades don't lose to pugs (they most certainly do on a not insignificant basis).

I'd love to go on as to more of the various things you can't prove but implied by your silly, inflamatory, and ignorant blanket statement spoken clearly more out of emotion and with an axe to grind than with any kind of thought, but I'm fairly sure it wouldn't matter.

[KhanCipher]

Shiney, on 28 November 2012 - 07:36 AM, said:

The CORE players are the team players, most of them are founders oh and guess what PAID. Seriously, catering first to those who haven't put up the cash, who whine incessantly [yes this is a whine but it comes after putting up with this garbage for a while] and who will be gone next week not having put in a thing to this game are NOT your player base. Yes 'we' [you know the premades] are FED UP, our numbers are dwindling just look on Teamspeak these days our support base diminishing and this is going to hurt you guys. It's your company, not telling you how to run it, I'm just concerned that you're not seeing the bigger picture correctly.

they are seeing the big picture correctly. MWO is a f2p, and i don't remember the last time i've seen a f2p cater to the paying players and being a success (minus Need for Speed World...). So it should be reasonable to assume that if you cater to the free players your game will live longer, and be successful. e.g. TF2, Blacklight Retribution, LoL, SMNC, hell i went into SD Gundam Capsule Fighter thinking it was going to be a P2W game, boy was i wrong, and it should show because i just had to do a free offer to get some red paint to make my Freedom Gundam (it's a S rank, given for free through a quest, and you can get 2 more S ranks via quests) look like Nine Ball Seraph color wise. all those games have something in common, they're all friendly to the free player. i suggest you go play them and see what i'm talking about.

[Cappy]

Diewell, on 26 November 2012 - 11:26 AM, said:

I have been in the closed beta then to the open beta and what i have seen so far is PGI caters to the whiners when they change something in game. And then pug players complain about fighting 8 man groups, and what do we get! A 4 man group system, which is a joke because people can't work together or group up with others to play against 2 full lances. Also where is phase 2 (OB dates change) that was supposed to be in place as of nov 20. Anybody seen it yet,lol pgi your slipping down hill and lots of people are losing faith in your ability to keep promises you make.

In a way PGI is punishing merc lances out there and making an issue where they are going to lose more money from the loyalists of MWO / BT due to their business model now catering to pug players and whiners.

Not just that, more game modes are needed + maps or even the talked about meta portion of the game. Don't get me wrong i do like the game it's just the direction PGI is heading in is shaky at best..

Ironic. People like you, who accuse everyone of whining because they disagree with your opinion, are almost always the most whiny. Seriously. The people arguing against the matchmaking system are the most vocal whiners on this forum. So I guess that makes you a hypocrite.

[Belkor]

Agent of Change, on 28 November 2012 - 03:43 PM, said:

you made an unqualified blanket statement and I called you on it and now you are back pedaling... and putting words in my mouth, I specifically said "That you are more likely to have experienced players in customized mechs that's not an unreasonable assumption" and you quoted it, I'm not even sure you are reading what you respond to.

You certainly can't guarantee that all other premades are bringing experienced , well equipped mechs (most will have some to be sure). Nor can you say that there aren't as many 'experienced, well equipped mechs' that aren't in premades (most likely out number the premade players by a large number), nor can you say that premades don't lose to pugs (they most certainly do on a not insignificant basis).

I'd love to go on as to more of the various things you can't prove but implied by your silly, inflamatory, and ignorant blanket statement spoken clearly more out of emotion and with an axe to grind than with any kind of thought, but I'm fairly sure it wouldn't matter.

Back pedaling? Alright there sniffles. Here are the hard facts: experience is an advantage, well equipped mechs is an advantage, coordination is an advantage. The only aspect new players in pugs have at remote chance at is coordination. I stand by my qualified blanket statement that premades use experienced, well equipped mechs to crush new players with trial mechs. This is proven by your refusal to limit premades to trial mechs when playing against new players in trial mechs. Bringing in new players with trial mechs into a premade once in a while does not disprove my overall blanket statement Agent of BS.

And you say I have an axe to grind with any kind of thought? Look whos talking Agent of BS. I'm so glad PGI didn't listen to people like you - pug stompers trying to claim premades being on even grounds vs pugs.

Edited by Belkor, 28 November 2012 - 04:46 PM.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

wow this actually IS a new fresh thread. Ive always seem it capitol letters screaming on the other side of the camp

[Agent of Change]

Belkor, on 28 November 2012 - 04:27 PM, said:

And you say I have an axe to grind with any kind of thought? Look whos talking Agent of BS. I'm so glad PGI didn't listen to people like you - pug stompers trying to claim premades being on even grounds vs pugs.

And again with putting words in my mouth. First let's address the defensive insult laden first bit i snipped out... Actually let's not as you'be failed to say anything new and are resorting to attacks to make it seem like you have a point.

As to the second part I have neither said or implied i think pugs are on even ground with premades, because I know they aren't. I did point out that you specifically were making wildly inaccurate claims in the interest over overstating your case. Coordination is the only major difference and someone has to be a rational voice to counter act yours and others irrational bile. I camnot wait until premades are seperated from pugs it can only make us all happier.

[Belkor]

Agent of Change, on 28 November 2012 - 05:08 PM, said:

Actually let's not as you'be failed to say anything new and are resorting to attacks to make it seem like you have a point.

And you failed to make any form of an argument. Sorry but bringing in new players with trial mechs into premades once in a while does not amount to anything.

Agent of Change, on 28 November 2012 - 05:08 PM, said:

Coordination is the only major difference

And again, this is a blatant lie. Who are you trying to kid? Experience and fully decked out mechs is a significant advantage. Otherwise, you would agree to limiting premades to trial mechs when matched against new players in trial mechs. The only wildly inaccurate claim / irrational bile is your statement quoted above.

Edited by Belkor, 28 November 2012 - 05:28 PM.