136 replies to this topic

[Pharoah85]

Same.. so far the most I've had is 4 keys and the 4th was very situational. Still didn't need AS. Thanks for info.

[0rca]

Pharoah85, on 27 November 2012 - 01:03 AM, said:

yea see it's those finer details I don't even know about.

You are gonna be amazed by Cataphract and Atlas. I'm a bit jealous, I remember that feeling when you realize how much power you carry

[Quad Ace]

Bluten, on 27 November 2012 - 12:56 AM, said:

Commando: Horribly useless Mech due to the max speed cap. It's basically an all-around inferior Jenner. There's literally no reason to use this thing except to handicap your team or troll. I personally chuckle everytime I see one of these drop instantly to an LRM or Streak barrage.

Just cause you can't drive one doesn't make them crap. I've killed plenty of jenners, and I giggle when i get to fry an atlas. If you're getting nuked by missiles, you're doing it wrong. The Commando may not be a front line brawler, but it can hold its own.

And that's not mentioning the tens of thousands of cbills made in spotting for lrm boats.

[Pharoah85]

Quad Ace, on 27 November 2012 - 01:34 AM, said:

Just cause you can't drive one doesn't make them crap. I've killed plenty of jenners, and I giggle when i get to fry an atlas. If you're getting nuked by missiles, you're doing it wrong. The Commando may not be a front line brawler, but it can hold its own.

And that's not mentioning the tens of thousands of cbills made in spotting for lrm boats.

But what's stopping a jenner from doing a better job getting those spot assists?

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

Quad Ace, on 27 November 2012 - 01:34 AM, said:

Just cause you can't drive one doesn't make them crap. I've killed plenty of jenners, and I giggle when i get to fry an atlas. If you're getting nuked by missiles, you're doing it wrong. The Commando may not be a front line brawler, but it can hold its own.

No, it's crap all on its own. Your point is that it can still win a match. I never said it couldn't. My point is that it can't do anything that the Jenner can't do better. I must wonder though how you're trying to scapegoat a person's bad piloting to defend the Commando when its top speed is only around a whole 1k higher than the Jenner's. In other words, if I was bad with the Commando, I'd be just as bad with the Jenner, so your irrelevant point isn't even logical.

[Dremster]

I have had good success with Centurions. Unlike a hunchback you can actually protect your main gun and center torso as long as your shield arm holds out. The Hunchback "hunch" can be hit from almost any angle making it easier to disarm than the Centurion. As for the Dragon the center torso is huge and it has worse turn, accelerate, and braking performance. If you don't know why that is a bad thing you haven't been using that Yen-Lo-Wang correctly .

Don't get me wrong the Dragon and Hunchback are excellent machines but saying they are flat out better than Centurions is false.

[Dremster]

Bluten, on 27 November 2012 - 01:42 AM, said:

No, it's crap all on its own. Your point is that it can still win a match. I never said it couldn't. My point is that it can't do anything that the Jenner can't do better. I must wonder though how you're trying to scapegoat a person's bad piloting to defend the Commando when its top speed is only around a whole 1k higher than the Jenner's. In other words, if I was bad with the Commando, I'd be just as bad with the Jenner, so your irrelevant point isn't even logical.

Funny thing is if the Commando was tweaked to turn tighter than it does now It's performance vs the Jenner and Raven would take a large leap IMO.

[Truesight]

Bluten, on 27 November 2012 - 12:56 AM, said:

Centurion is trash. Sorry pal, but I say it like it is. At least your YLW has a boost on it.

Hunchback/Centurion: Both of these are outclassed by the Dragon and now even more so by the new Cataphract. All 4 of these Mechs are basically brawlers, but the Cataphract is the toughest/best choice for it. The Dragon clocks in second and utterly stomps the Centurion. The Hunchback is tied for 3rd but at least has unique hardpoints.

Sorry Pal, but the Cent is an Medium Mech along with the Hunchback. A Cent will not be matched vs a Dragon, just vs. a Cicada or a Hunchback. A Dragon is just an inferior Cataphract if you want it this way, but for your Cent, the enemy is in no way getting a Dragon or even a more heavy Chassis.

[Xinaoen]

I'm convinced that if Cents were bugged so that they couldn't carry weapons, the one guy who somehow managed to get a kill with one anyway would claim it as proof that the chassis was fine, and that people who don't have success with them just need to learn to play.

[Vassago Rain]

Xinaoen, on 27 November 2012 - 02:06 AM, said:

I'm convinced that if Cents were bugged so that they couldn't carry weapons, the one guy who somehow managed to get a kill with one anyway would claim it as proof that the chassis was fine, and that people who don't have success with them just need to learn to play.

We had pretty much this discussion before open beta.

[Urza Mechwalker]

Only for people that are too stubborn to change their ways. From all the mechs I had the centurion AL is the best one!

I have one with a XL 280 that can move 90 kph with 1 ERPPC 3 medium lasers and 2 SRM 6, and when I engage a catapult, atlas or cataphthrac 1v1 I am very very sure that I will win.

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

Dremster, on 27 November 2012 - 01:54 AM, said:

I have had good success with Centurions. Unlike a hunchback you can actually protect your main gun and center torso as long as your shield arm holds out. The Hunchback "hunch" can be hit from almost any angle making it easier to disarm than the Centurion. As for the Dragon the center torso is huge and it has worse turn, accelerate, and braking performance. If you don't know why that is a bad thing you haven't been using that Yen-Lo-Wang correctly .

Don't get me wrong the Dragon and Hunchback are excellent machines but saying they are flat out better than Centurions is false.

The Dragon is flat out better though. The Hunchback isn't "better" but actually has unique hardpoints to play with so you aren't just wasting your time. The Centurion however brings nothing to the table unless you want the YLW boost or the super speed of the D variant... and if you want that, you're probably just going to play a Dragon anyway and get the speed with all 3 variants. I suppose if I was trying to dig for an Centurion perk here it'd be the fact that you don't have a treetrunk in your HUD. Take that for whatever it is worth... The boost is the only thing that really makes that Mech worth anything now. If you aren't buying a YLW... I'd suggest forgetting the entire Mech.

Truesight, on 27 November 2012 - 02:02 AM, said:

A Cent will not be matched vs a Dragon, just vs. a Cicada or a Hunchback. A Dragon is just an inferior Cataphract if you want it this way, but for your Cent, the enemy is in no way getting a Dragon or even a more heavy Chassis.

Actually, it is. The current matchmaking treats all Mechs the same unless one of them is an Assault. I'm not sure where you pulled out this bogus MM theory. Hopefully one day such will exist but currently what you said is just a fantasy. It doesn't care about your weight class or weight at all unless you're an Assault. Also, the Dragon is not just an inferior Cataphract; they have very different hardpoints. The Centurion however is little different in loadouts than the Dragon. I explained all this in my previous posts...

Xinaoen, on 27 November 2012 - 02:06 AM, said:

I'm convinced that if Cents were bugged so that they couldn't carry weapons, the one guy who somehow managed to get a kill with one anyway would claim it as proof that the chassis was fine, and that people who don't have success with them just need to learn to play.

Ya I've no idea what people are thinking when they defend crap Mechs that are clearly underpowered. It's like they're just trying to justify the C-Bills they dropped on them. You can lie to yourself all you want but denying the problem to the public won't help you get a balanced game. Face facts and admit the reality that way maybe the Mech you like might actually get the attention it needs.(Which would then make you better in it. Why would anyone have a problem with that?)

[KharnZor]

I've been piloting cents all week.....fav fit is lbx ac 10, 2 medium lasers and 3 streak launchers.
I average 3 or 4 kills a game with loads of assists. Having some fun with this supposed inferior mech and it might just replace my hunchbacks.

[SirLANsalot]

Pharoah85, on 27 November 2012 - 12:31 AM, said:

... are most mechs just filler BS to burn time and possibly money until you figure out what the good stuff is? I have 3 owned mechs so far in this order > Wang > CN9-AL > CN9-A. I got the other two so I could maximize the potential of my Wang.......................... ........... ...... ok I'm done. Anyway I bought the other two to get the Elite stuff etc. Even though I've learned how to make the centurion work for me I can't help but feel it is outclassed by other mechs in various ways.

Now I'm about to make a statement and before people flame me.. keep in mind I'm like 3 days or so into this mech thing so I know jack diddly sh*t about the table top or w/e else has existed. It's just one of those things that I always wanted to get into but never did. Now the statement is.. Jennar, HBK, Cataphract, Catapult, Atlas = the most powerful mechs and only certain variants of those mechs. Rest is bs. That is a broad statement that I need educating on for sure. But just for centurions alone I need some help understanding why they matter? Shoot off right arm, wang is useless. There's a left arm that does nothing.. on all variants, among other issues. Several other mechs make better use of speed, armor, lasers, ballistics, short range, med range, long range, missiles - doesn't matter. Whatever I try to do on a Cent variant there's at least a few mechs that are better at it. Two final things before I hopefully get some input. 1. the way I play all 3 of my cents is very very conservative unless my team is stomping and it works well, I just don't really want to be conservative and paranoid the whole match. 2. The heat management potential does seem really well and better than several other mechs I've looked up.. so that's a plus.

TLDR: I'm a Centurion variant, my speed is as slow as a heavy but I'm not as strong as one. If I build for damage I lack the armor to stand up to HBK/heavy/assault in a close and personal battle. If I build armor I lack the damage. I can't really stack/boat anything and my weapon variety is greatly limited due to slots and hardpoint locations combined with a useless limb. It just seems like other mechs are going "anything you can do I can do better" lalalaalaaa.... yea. What do? Matter of effectiveness.. why do medium mechs even exist.. really.. ?

P.S. if the left arm is meant to hold Optimus Prime's axe at some point in the future all is forgiven.

The cent has issues not being able to carry a lot of guns onto the field, and that holds true for most med mechs in general (they are only one class higher then lights). However you can pack a few "big guns" on them to compensate for the lack of numbers. For the cent AH (the ballistic one) pack an AC 10 in the arm and a few med lasers, believe it or not 2 MED lasers is all you need to win a game. The rest is up to you and your piloting skills, I have won several games just packing only 2 med lasers on one of my mechs, or have finished games with just 2 med lasers left.

Personally I don't like the cent at all, I think the hunch can do its job far better, and be faster (minus the C9D). The hunch class is far better suited for front line work. Best description for the role for the cent is support mech for your LRM boats. You can pack a LRM 10 in those cent builds and a few tons of ammo (like 2-3) and pretend to be a LRM boat. When the fast little jenners come running for you. Then you open up on those things with 1 or 2 steaks, and med laser fire. Even on the AL you will get 4 med lasers to use an LRM 10 with 2 tons and a SSRM with 1 ton of ammo, the rest of the tonnage should go into armor/eng/HS. The other variants you can pack an AC 10 with a few tons of ammo and 2 ML, if your a good ballistics pilot you can and will land those AC 10 shots on those light mechs, and they don't stand up well to anything that deals that much damage.

[Vassago Rain]

KharnZor, on 27 November 2012 - 02:20 AM, said:

I've been piloting cents all week.....fav fit is lbx ac 10, 2 medium lasers and 3 streak launchers.
I average 3 or 4 kills a game with loads of assists. Having some fun with this supposed inferior mech and it might just replace my hunchbacks.

Yes, you are the king of mechs. Here, have your 50 cents.

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

Vassago Rain, on 27 November 2012 - 02:32 AM, said:

Yes, you are the king of mechs. Here, have your 50 cents.

It's another fallacy of biased defenders. If I pwn in a Mech, clearly the Mech is not underpowered, right?

[LennStar]

Bluten, on 27 November 2012 - 01:42 AM, said:

No, it's crap all on its own. Your point is that it can still win a match. I never said it couldn't. My point is that it can't do anything that the Jenner can't do better. I must wonder though how you're trying to scapegoat a person's bad piloting to defend the Commando when its top speed is only around a whole 1k higher than the Jenner's. In other words, if I was bad with the Commando, I'd be just as bad with the Jenner, so your irrelevant point isn't even logical.

No, I think you are unlogical because you put your performance as the ruling basis. They play fairly different, not only because of the different weapons load (depending on variant it can be a big difference - compare the 6slas jenner and the 3x4SRM com). As a pilot who has scored more then 500 dmg in every variant of commando and jenner I can say that.
Yes, the paper armor makes a real thrilling game, and 1:1 the jenner has a huge advantage - but I think its easier to kill an atlas or cat in a com then in a jenner.
At the same time the jenner is a far better overall harasser because of the sustained output. You can brawl in a jenner, jump and fire... not in a com.

If you count only tonnage (which the game does not afaik) the com would likely outdo the jenner at least in the "kill heavy+assaults" department.


So yes, I think you are just bad as a com pilot. Like I'm bad as a centurion pilot, to get back to topic

The cent for me is simply bad design. Your arm gets blown of by coms which you cant hit with your torso lasers... just to state one problem. (I like to go against cents in a com or jenner for that reason, esp. the Yen Lo Wang - 20 seconds and that AC20 is gone and the 50t mech reduced to the dmg output of 25t or less)
The hunch just has better arcs of fire and weapon choices based on variant. And does not stand out that much.

If there would be an tonnage-matching-ranking the cent would propably be two ranks unter the last rank.

[Pharoah85]

I didn't mean to start a war.. but how about this guys.. let me just start all over. As a base purchase with perhaps swapping a few weapons around the cent to me is inferior. BUT I have been messing around wasting CBs (well not really wasting cuz I keep the parts.. ) and I can say the way a cent plays from 64 kph to 94 kph is vastly different. It seems.. purchase some elite skills and get a fast XL engine.. things change quite a bit for the too big too slow med mech.

But now that I think about it.. if I feel that HBK base > CN base, I'd probably still feel that HBK upgraded decently is > CB upgraded just as decently. I've had some really awesome matches with my cents (only mechs I own). My main issue in all this is that you're really limited in the weapons department. An earlier post regarding the CN9-A and fast engine made me change my perspective a bit. There's definitely potential for the Cents but it seems only so if you invest. In a nutshell... a LOT of other mechs offer much bigger bang for your buck out the gate, with the cents starting to shine after u throw in a XL eng and even more so by grabbing the elite skills.

Think about it as a base purchase, someone shoots your arm off by surprise cuz you're in the middle of fighting someone else and most of your firepower is gone + you now have an exposed torso. At a rate of 64kph they just ain't badass enough to last long after that.

Limited in weapons and about as easy to hit as an Atlas with half the armor and 1/3 the firepower (base vs base compare).

[Vassago Rain]

LennStar, on 27 November 2012 - 02:46 AM, said:

No, I think you are unlogical because you put your performance as the ruling basis. They play fairly different, not only because of the different weapons load (depending on variant it can be a big difference - compare the 6slas jenner and the 3x4SRM com). As a pilot who has scored more then 500 dmg in every variant of commando and jenner I can say that.
Yes, the paper armor makes a real thrilling game, and 1:1 the jenner has a huge advantage - but I think its easier to kill an atlas or cat in a com then in a jenner.
At the same time the jenner is a far better overall harasser because of the sustained output. You can brawl in a jenner, jump and fire... not in a com.

If you count only tonnage (which the game does not afaik) the com would likely outdo the jenner at least in the "kill heavy+assaults" department.


So yes, I think you are just bad as a com pilot. Like I'm bad as a centurion pilot, to get back to topic

The cent for me is simply bad design. Your arm gets blown of by coms which you cant hit with your torso lasers... just to state one problem. (I like to go against cents in a com or jenner for that reason, esp. the Yen Lo Wang - 20 seconds and that AC20 is gone and the 50t mech reduced to the dmg output of 25t or less)
The hunch just has better arcs of fire and weapon choices based on variant. And does not stand out that much.

If there would be an tonnage-matching-ranking the cent would propably be two ranks unter the last rank.

Wow, 500 damage. That's pretty terrible. In lagshielded lights, of all mechs.

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

No. I'm the one NOT trying to put up personal performance as evidence. I compare the Mechs using actual math or comparisons. You are the one doing the exact opposite by yet again stating your own performance with the Commando as evidence that they are equal choices when the exact opposite is reality. Your only point to be made(again) is that the Mech can perform, totally ignoring the fact that the Jenner can simply perform better. In all honestly you should just go reread my previous posts. There's only so many times I can restate facts because they weren't understood or read the first time. But I'll say it again just for the shortbus readers we are plagued with. The Commando simply brings nothing to the table that the Jenner can't do better. Nothing.

But as I've said before, perhaps one day the MM will take all weight into account instead of just Assaults. If such a day ever comes, THEN you have a real point to be made. It's your choice if you want to build the Mech or not but it's currently pointless to do so. I wouldn't insult you just for playing it or for building its trees for future use, but only a fool would think it's not a handicap in the current state of the game.

Edited by Bluten, 27 November 2012 - 03:03 AM.