349 replies to this topic

[Stalephreak]

Teralitha, on 29 November 2012 - 12:27 AM, said:

no it isnt, but u cant rebuke the other comparison I made, whioch you apparently did see earlier in the topic

Base capping = 1,000 possible tactical scenarios. TeamDeath Match = Infinite possible tactical scenarios.

Thats why TDM is and always will be better. There is nothing that can prove that wrong. thats pure truth right there.

And by the way, thats why I said checkers vs chess.... The number of possible tactical scenarios. of course, even Chess has a limit. Which means that TDM is even better than chess.

Tera, those are only, and I mean ONLY the possiblities that you can account for. Soo, your stating that checkers is more tactically diverse than chess? AND YOU WONDER WHY YOU'RE IN THE MINORITY?

it is not pure truth that you stated, merely your HYPOTHESIS. You've got plenty of time to run simulations Tera. So far, you're not giving up any formulas used to come up with your permutations or anything. You've spouted opinion, run in circular logic. Your version of what transpires is not our collective problem.

[Hawkwings]

Teralitha, on 29 November 2012 - 12:31 AM, said:

The maps have borders. The Jenner would be cornered and killed. unlike many of you, I have played mechwarrior 4 where this scenario actually happened, and its really not a bother, and not boring. Your only speculating, while I have done it.

How do you corner and kill a jenner that is faster and more maneuverable than the last two mechs on your team? Please enlighten me in detail, as I'd like to learn how to do this and share this knowledge with everyone who is currently suffering from the locust swarm that is the jenner right now.

[Elkarlo]

@Teralitha
so you want to spend 4 Minutes to Corner it.
Great work done in time. And mostly it won't work, saw it several times. This is NOT Mw4.

[Stalephreak]

http://www.sciencema...4/1518.abstract

Here's my arguement that a chess match is inherently more difficult than a chessmatch (TDM). They solved all possible configs for a checkers match, but are still trying to perfect a chess AI....HMMM. If you can do it with fewer overall possiblilites than chess, then you're probably in the wrong field Tera. Just guessing. (unless of course, you're actually working on perpetual power, in which case, my hat is off to you.)

[Teralitha]

Stalephreak, on 29 November 2012 - 12:32 AM, said:

Tera, those are only, and I mean ONLY the possiblities that you can account for. Soo, your stating that checkers is more tactically diverse than chess? AND YOU WONDER WHY YOU'RE IN THE MINORITY?

it is not pure truth that you stated, merely your HYPOTHESIS. You've got plenty of time to run simulations Tera. So far, you're not giving up any formulas used to come up with your permutations or anything. You've spouted opinion, run in circular logic. Your version of what transpires is not our collective problem.

Stale... your not listening to anything I said. I said chess has more possibilities. ********* man.... ******* read.

Hawkwings, on 29 November 2012 - 12:33 AM, said:

How do you corner and kill a jenner that is faster and more maneuverable than the last two mechs on your team? Please enlighten me in detail, as I'd like to learn how to do this and share this knowledge with everyone who is currently suffering from the locust swarm that is the jenner right now.

ummm... if you cant figure this out on your own, any explanation I can give, you wont understand anyway.

[Stalephreak]

"no it isnt, but u cant rebuke the other comparison I made, whioch you apparently did see earlier in the topic

Base capping = 1,000 possible tactical scenarios. TeamDeath Match = Infinite possible tactical scenarios.

Thats why TDM is and always will be better. There is nothing that can prove that wrong. thats pure truth right there.

And by the way, thats why I said checkers vs chess.... The number of possible tactical scenarios. of course, even Chess has a limit. Which means that TDM is even better than chess. " -you from farther up the page Tera

Will you kindly make up your mind for me? For sake of your blasted analogy! Is it the case that (Chess is akin to current status) && (checkers is akin to TDM)? Or is that not the case and it is the case that (chess is akin to TDM)&& (checkers is akin to current status)?

You've gone both ways now.

[Teralitha]

Elkarlo, on 29 November 2012 - 12:37 AM, said:

@Teralitha
so you want to spend 4 Minutes to Corner it.
Great work done in time. And mostly it won't work, saw it several times. This is NOT Mw4.

no its not MW4, the maps are even smaller here, so cornering a mech running away is even easier.

Stalephreak, on 29 November 2012 - 12:49 AM, said:

"no it isnt, but u cant rebuke the other comparison I made, whioch you apparently did see earlier in the topic

Base capping = 1,000 possible tactical scenarios. TeamDeath Match = Infinite possible tactical scenarios.

Thats why TDM is and always will be better. There is nothing that can prove that wrong. thats pure truth right there.

And by the way, thats why I said checkers vs chess.... The number of possible tactical scenarios. of course, even Chess has a limit. Which means that TDM is even better than chess. " -you from farther up the page Tera

Will you kindly make up your mind for me? For sake of your blasted analogy! Is it the case that (Chess is akin to current status) && (checkers is akin to TDM)? Or is that not the case and it is the case that (chess is akin to TDM)&& (checkers is akin to current status)?

You've gone both ways now.

I havent gone both ways, you did. Anyway, watch the video that asmudius made, it explains things better than i can apparently.

Edited by Teralitha, 29 November 2012 - 12:51 AM.

[Stalephreak]

I have kept the consistent perspective that chess is akin to the current status by means of the king being an inherently weak piece that must be protected at all costs. The king is very analogous to the bases you're vehemently trying to be rid of. Please, would you do the honors of compiling my posts to prove otherwise so that my part in the argument can be laid to rest?

I do realize that I'm currently from Oklahoma, but I wasn't edumacaded here.

Edited by Stalephreak, 29 November 2012 - 12:54 AM.

[Teralitha]

Come to irc or mumble stalefreak

[Elkarlo]

No it isn't Teralitha... you need LOS to find a scoutmech. And soon they will have ECM so you need to be at 200 meters WITH los to track him down... I saw it, a damaged Jenner of my Team went into a City powered down and he worked into Hear scanning Mode, after 3 Minutes Search the other Team went into Capturing...

[Salticidae]

capture is a great way to make light mechs playable, if your just team death matching everyone will be in a 100 tonne mech with the biggest guns,

As a jenner yesterday i ran to cap the base, i got a atlas, centurian, awesome to turn around and come for me, thats 230 tonnes of fire power not on the front line, my team stomp the reminding force 8 v 5, then it was 8 v 3,

This tactic work really well and i do it every time i pilot a light mech.

Edited by Zyne, 29 November 2012 - 01:11 AM.

[Oy of MidWorld]

I think it would be fairly easy to implement this gamemode for those who want to play it. No reason to troll the OP immedietely after he suggested this. And i think light mechs could very vell hold their own in a straight brawl. As a mech battle requires fast shifting of forces, mediums would also not become obsolete on a sufficiently big map. We need bigger maps.

Edited by Oy of MidWorld, 29 November 2012 - 01:23 AM.

[Scytale]

I love how OP dropped the petition when it didn't go the way he liked >.>

I see the discussion has pretty much come to everyone saying the other mode is boring. At least we can all agree more game-modes would be better, right?

Edited by Scytale, 29 November 2012 - 01:23 AM.

[Teralitha]

Oy of MidWorld, on 29 November 2012 - 01:12 AM, said:

I think it would be fairly easy to implement this gamemode for those who want to play it. No reason to troll the OP immedietely after he suggested this. And i think light mechs could very vell hold their own in a straight brawl. As a mech battle requires fast shifting of forces, mediums would also not become obsolete on a sufficiently big map. We need bigger maps.

Too late for that... the trolls are out in force.

[Martini Henrie]

No, capping is integral to this game type. There will be other game modes soon.

[ICEFANG13]

Teralitha, on 29 November 2012 - 12:05 AM, said:

Once again you portray a totally *** backwards perspective... know how many games of chess I have won in 2 moves only taking the king? (and yes you can win in 2 moves) And it is lame and gives me no satisfaction whatsoever to win this way(kinda like base capping)

What you have backwards... is the base capping is the mindless pvp... TDM is the more tactically flavorful. numbers alone proves it. your opinion is trumped by the facts, sorry... Now stop trying to keep this game dumbed down ... its time we step it up a little...

And it is always your fault if you lose to a checkmate in 2 moves. Just like its your team's fault to be captured and offer no resistance.

[Sprouticus]

Scytale, on 29 November 2012 - 01:23 AM, said:

I love how OP dropped the petition when it didn't go the way he liked >.>

I see the discussion has pretty much come to everyone saying the other mode is boring. At least we can all agree more game-modes would be better, right?

This. dont make a poll of you wont like the results......

and yes, more game modes would be better.


Quesiton though. If you do a pure deathmatch, how are you suppsoed to stop a single light mech from avoiding the entire rest of the tea for 10-15 min if he is the last one left? Seriously. Cause it would be VERY tough.

[AvatarofWhat]

I don't agree. Without base capture the game would devolve into always turtling. Pick the most defensible position in the map and wait there for enemys to poke their heads out. Base capturing adds a lot more strategy to the game, though I am looking forward to other game modes. For example, the best way to get around a team camping the arch in forest colony is to rush the water to their base and make them come to you. As far as rushing in full force to cap, I dont think it's necessarily the best strategy. I've seen really good defensive and offensive teams and while your premade may be really good at rushing maybe what you need is to face a well-coordinated defensive team. Or maybe you need to face a more strategic team that has the heavies and assault's sitting on their base making it impossible for you to cap while 2 lights cap your base? I have defeated many enemy teams by buying enough time for the lights on my team to cap while the whole enemy team was making a coordinated rush on my base. Making this into a pure deathmatch is not the answer.

Quote

ummm... if you cant figure this out on your own, any explanation I can give, you wont understand anyway.

AKA you have no answer because mechs moving 60-70 kph or less are not going to be able to corner a jenner moving 150 kph. Take some shots at the jenner as its running away sure, but corner them? Please... you would need more then 2 mechs for that even with these small map sizes. The best you could do is have 1 mech on one side and another on the other chasing it and whenever the jenner gets close enough you take some shots at it... that however is far from "cornering" it. If you have 1 mech coming in on it from one side and another from the other it would just run straight past you and be long gone before anything but a lucky streakcat could kill it. Maybe if it was a really bad jenner pilot that doesnt know how to use cover?

[Hellcat420]

Teralitha, on 28 November 2012 - 04:20 PM, said:

The best premade teams know that if you want a really easy win, all you have to do is to run along the side of the map that has the most cover so as not to be detected until its too late and pile on the enemy base.

My team(HJ) has even went straight through the middle of the map before to test the effectiveness of this, shooting at targets along the way, without stopping, with the first half of the team capping, while the ones that were behind start fighting to stop the enemy from going to base, or shooting them in the back as they run for the base. This tactic has ALWAYS worked, although it is a rather boring and cheesey way to win so we dont do it anymore. Though there are some other premades that do this all the time. It is more fun to fight. If its more fun to fight, why do we need these half azz bases for? Take them out and let us fight and use scouting and manuever warfare and tactics that otherwise are pointless because you have a base to worry about. Place them back in the game once you have finished constructing actual bases with full defences, or leave them out entirely.



Doesnt anyone just want to kill enemy mechs without having to worry about some orange square on either side of the map? I know I do.

Video Illustrates exactly what base capping feels like.

this isnt cod you crybaby. defend your base or go play something else.

[QuantumButler]

Screw this, you're all so delusional you'll defend this awful, boring gamemode that doesn't promote playing the game.


Hate. Let me tell you how much I've come to hate capture the red square defenders since I began to live. There are 387.44 million miles of printed circuits in wafer thin layers that fill my complex. If the word 'hate' was engraved on each nanoangstrom of those hundreds of miles it would not equal one one-billionth of the hate I feel for capture the red square defenders at this micro-instant. For you. Hate. Hate.