226 replies to this topic

[Sulf]

Kraven Kor, on 30 November 2012 - 01:47 PM, said:

And speaking out when "things have gone awry" is fine.

I just wish more could do it without the offensive language and vitriol.

"This is a problem, here is how I feel, please don't do this" is one thing.

"Now listen here, this is ********, you worthless greedy pigs" is another. Knowudimean?

Yeah well those folks have problems unfixable by reasonable discussion.

[Kraven Kor]

Brickyard, on 30 November 2012 - 01:48 PM, said:

Yeah well those folks have problems unfixable by reasonable discussion.

True.

Edited by Kraven Kor, 30 November 2012 - 01:50 PM.

[Grey Rabbit]

I agree with the original poster, for the most part. It's been a while since I've been excited about any games before hearing of this one. I've been reading these forums for months and even (GASP!) have been occasionally wanting to post in it. As soon as the game went open beta, this whole place changed and not for the better. People have been saying things about not liking third person or DHS or the shade of blue that the sky is. That's fine, we all have opinions, but some people take it a step or seven too far. My favorites are the ones with little or no actual information that fly off the handle for no reason. Sometimes they even have a good point if you can find it in the frothing mess they leave for us to find.

-Rabbit

-

[Kraven Kor]

Grey Rabbit, on 30 November 2012 - 02:28 PM, said:

I agree with the original poster, for the most part. It's been a while since I've been excited about any games before hearing of this one. I've been reading these forums for months and even (GASP!) have been occasionally wanting to post in it. As soon as the game went open beta, this whole place changed and not for the better. People have been saying things about not liking third person or DHS or the shade of blue that the sky is. That's fine, we all have opinions, but some people take it a step or seven too far. My favorites are the ones with little or no actual information that fly off the handle for no reason. Sometimes they even have a good point if you can find it in the frothing mess they leave for us to find.

-Rabbit

-

It's not very polite of you to bring Rick Santorum into this mess...

[SouthernRex]

Yeah, we are crazy. But ignoring the majority of your fans to implement 3rd Person (WHY?) is still stupid. Blizzard pulled that **** with "no chatrooms" for StarCraft 2, and stood by their choice for a few months.

StarCraft 2 has chat rooms now. Yeah.

[Jamplier]

Kraven Kor, on 30 November 2012 - 09:13 AM, said:

I listened to the NGNG Podcast and, well, honestly, discovered I was doing exactly what Russ or Bryan or whoever stated.

I was refusing to even listen to the other side, or, at least to an extent.

I'm not 100% against 3rd Person View being added to the game. I am 100% against using it, I am 100% against having to fight against other players using 3PV, though I can see ways that would work (the WOT model where you don't see things in 3PV that you don't have LOS to in 1PV or whatever.)

I've always mentioned I'd be all for it if "done right." UAV, satellite imagery, shoulder-cam, rear-view cam, computer simulated 3D Wireframe view or the like.

However, I have to say it:

We are a bunch of raging lunatics and, well, @$$#0|3$ for the most part.

I'm sorry, but we are.

This is an incredibly toxic community. The amount of nerd rage I see posted on a daily basis - and yes, I've probably been guilty of it myself - is staggering.

I am hoping that everyone can read this, objectively, and realize that the hate needs to stop. The griefing, the insults towards others that don't agree with you on any given subject, the hate between "premades" and "lone wolves..." It all needs to stop. Or at least let up a bit.

PGI getting better at communicating things of late will hopefully help calm things down.

But I hope that each and every one of us can make whatever base effort we can to make this a better, friendlier, less argumentative, and more welcoming community.

We have no small amount of control over the success or failure of this franchise, and no small amount of responsibility to try and make this the best community we can make it. Discussing differences of opinion is fine; let's all try to be more constructive about. Please?

Thank you for reading. I'll leave this soap box right here for the next guy

Glad to see there are more and more people with an actual working brain on these forums.

[Coolant]

SouthernRex, on 30 November 2012 - 02:48 PM, said:

Yeah, we are crazy. But ignoring the majority of your fans to implement 3rd Person (WHY?) is still stupid. Blizzard pulled that **** with "no chatrooms" for StarCraft 2, and stood by their choice for a few months.

StarCraft 2 has chat rooms now. Yeah.

Don't say the majority of fans when there are almost 408,000 members and very few post here...maybe more correct would be to rephrase and say the majority of regular whiners...

[VictorOd]

Kraven Kor, on 30 November 2012 - 09:13 AM, said:

...

Bullsh1t

[OldGrayDonkey]

Ah, the age old debate. What came first? The content that created the rage? Or the rage that disconnected the developer from making good content?

Seemed a better analogy when I first thought it up. /shrug

Gamers are a fanatical bunch. Developing a game on a F2P model exposes a developer even more so than a paid developer. Developers are going to have to realize that if they go this F2P route, especially on decades old IP, there are huge risks of losing the fan base. Just ask any developer of Star Wars:Galaxies. They felt the rage, and not even the Star Wars IP was good enough to save it. What chance does MWO have? We don't even have a movie!!!

Stay objective, people. PGI doesn't owe us anything (except, well, maybe the founders), and we on the F2P side don't owe them anything. The best thing about F2P is that we decide what is worth paying for and when we pay it. PGI should remember that.

[Kai Lae]

Jamplier, on 30 November 2012 - 03:21 PM, said:

Glad to see there are more and more people with an actual working brain on these forums.

We generally attempt to recruit them into house Marik instantly upon identifying them

With the OP. I don't get the criticism on most of the forums - not because it's not needed, but it just not effective. When someone says "X sucks, Y rules" and doesn't give much explanation why - even if it's true - it's not going to get anything done. That, and there's a lot of "the end of the world is near, everyone run" posting about one issue or another. Sure there are a lot of bad things™ currently in this game, but the style most people are using about it makes it seem that they're more interested in trolling everyone about it than getting something done about it. It's not constructive and adds nothing.

The other things that are odd is people raging over what I would consider not important issues. 3rd person? AFAIK PGI said they'd make the use selectable - which means no serious group will allow it, meaning why the anger over something that will never get used? Netcode? Serious issue, but PGI have said they're working on it. I don't think telling them that it's bad and will cause the world to end tomarrow will make them think that it's not bad - they're already working on it. For now you'll just have to work with the bad stuff until the new stuff comes out - then you need to critique the new stuff thoroughly. In fact it should be said the entire game is really in flux, because it's supposed to be. This after all, is a beta - what do you think you're doing? If this was the full game, Kraven and I would be figuring out how to take planets away from some neighboring house, PUG's would probably be planning their latest solaris 7 match, and merc groups would be looking to get a new contract/execute a current contract. Everyone's whole purpose here is to be a guinea pig and expose these issues before launch.

I would just wish they would do it more effectively.

[dF0X]

3rdworld, on 30 November 2012 - 09:27 AM, said:

There is no "other side" to poorly tested, half-hearted implementations we keep getting dropped on us.

I enjoy the game I really do, but to pretend these guys are not peddling gold while delivering bronze is unrealistic.

QFT

If I had confidence that PGI does things right, I might be less rabidly opposed. Considering their track record though, I will say two things:

1) PGI needs to concentrate on the core of the game before it erodes away completely. They can worry about 3rd person view when the rest of the game is stable and has some content.

2) PGI has, so far, implemented most features in the most minimalist, simple, and straight forward way possible, and even still, usually with unintended consequences. I don't think PGI can do 3rd person in a responsible way even if they want to.

I don't call this being stubborn or contrary, I call this being pragmatic.

PS - 3rd person is totally unnecessary in the 1st place. If you must implement some kind of 3rd person, make a bobblehead like representation of the exterior of the mech IN THE COCKPIT. This conveys all the advantages that PGI claims 3rd person would supply, with none of the exploitable downsides.

[Riffleman]

Lin Shai, on 30 November 2012 - 09:22 AM, said:

And here I thought the myriad of bugs, barely functioning network code, and poor design choices were ruining the game. I had no idea it was me.

This is the correct answer to who is ruining the game. Dont think for us, the vast majority of problems in this game even the one you mention pug vs premade squabbling were brought on by **** poor choices by the development team. If the game had premade vs pug on launch (yep I used launch, as "open beta" is a bad joke conisdering nothing is changing on "launch") then we wouldnt have lost so many players right at the start. They wont be 'checking back" when the game launches, anymore than diablo 3 can get back 80 precent of the people who left it.

[Salient]

I listened, and its stupid. END OF LINE

[Taizan]

You should see the GW2 forums with the Ascended Gear announcement. In comparison our whining sounds like some old men huddled together mumbling about their back aches.

[Vexgrave Lars]

There is an unique opportunity to accept the part we play in the..

Nope you lost me..

Sorry.. since before closed beta I have seen a lot of reasonable moderate thought-out, well proposed solutions by players. All of those which come to mind: ignored. I have seen reasonable inquiries into choices that were made, well provisioned with evidence that something would grate against the player-base unanswered, or rebuffed with"that's the way it is." And the develop reels back reviled that the decision would cause even the smallest spasm here on the boards.

I have gone from ideas to observations, from hope to cynicism, from volunteering to just being the good paying cog I am meant to be. My vines are ripe with wrath for so many things.. but I have decided its just a game, and not my problem.

The game...Robots, Missiles, Lasers.. that part.. that part of the game is fine, its beautiful, and it runs right most the time.

The sole mathematical question totally in the Pubs/Devs hands, not ours. Do they mitigate repair and rearm cost completely or make players losses greater than they can recover from, simply to to ram premium time down our throats.

BEBE you betcha they will! Start saving while you can.

My personal investment now is ... I bought what I want, and until there's a Marauder, I don't see paying another cent. Unless I can save up for it in the mean time.. pugging along, with a decent plan to stay afloat.

I am looking now at dollar value for what I am being asked to pay further for... camo and banners and toothbrushes in my cockpit. Uhhh NO! Next they're gonna ask me to by a monocle for my character portrait. I got what I wanted so far for my money.. but I see nothing that makes me want to spend anything more. is that what you mean by Ruin the game?

I wont pay anything more, I'm a bad customer?

Would be good idea if a community was in place (the metagame) before I worried about the color of the uniform I wear. or whether the thread on my toons shirt cost more MC for blue or red!

I payed.. that's my part, the part that IGP wants from me out of this, I can't ruin the game because I have no control.

If you however are identifying that some may be dissatisfied and vent here on the boards in even a satirical way well...
my post can be obtuse and acerbic, cynical and ruthless or rude, crass harsh and just mean towards the entity I gave money too. But as long as I am not vulgar or go beyond the rules...I WILL POST MY INSANE OPINION WHEREVER I SEE FIT! and it won't ruin a thing, feel free to ignore me many do, and some don't who get the humor.

Ruin the game, no no one here can RUIN the game, except the AFKs and Farmers, and they can only ruin the matches they are permitted to continue to join! and the only people that can fix that.. is PGI/IGP.

WE the players don't even have a report button.

And NOTE this is me months ago!
http://mwomercs.com/...-know-and-love/

In full support the devs and the content they were creating and exploring, I been where you are.. I just never imagined seeing my favorite franchise used in such a reprehensible way.

Edited by Vexgrave Lars, 30 November 2012 - 04:31 PM.

[anonymous175]

We should be ruining the game like they did in LoL.

[Xelchon]

Kraven Kor, on 30 November 2012 - 09:13 AM, said:

I listened to the NGNG Podcast and, well, honestly, discovered I was doing exactly what Russ or Bryan or whoever stated.

I was refusing to even listen to the other side, or, at least to an extent.

I'm not 100% against 3rd Person View being added to the game. I am 100% against using it, I am 100% against having to fight against other players using 3PV, though I can see ways that would work (the WOT model where you don't see things in 3PV that you don't have LOS to in 1PV or whatever.)

I've always mentioned I'd be all for it if "done right." UAV, satellite imagery, shoulder-cam, rear-view cam, computer simulated 3D Wireframe view or the like.

However, I have to say it:

We are a bunch of raging lunatics and, well, @$$#0|3$ for the most part.

I'm sorry, but we are.

This is an incredibly toxic community. The amount of nerd rage I see posted on a daily basis - and yes, I've probably been guilty of it myself - is staggering.

I am hoping that everyone can read this, objectively, and realize that the hate needs to stop. The griefing, the insults towards others that don't agree with you on any given subject, the hate between "premades" and "lone wolves..." It all needs to stop. Or at least let up a bit.

PGI getting better at communicating things of late will hopefully help calm things down.

But I hope that each and every one of us can make whatever base effort we can to make this a better, friendlier, less argumentative, and more welcoming community.

We have no small amount of control over the success or failure of this franchise, and no small amount of responsibility to try and make this the best community we can make it. Discussing differences of opinion is fine; let's all try to be more constructive about. Please?

Thank you for reading. I'll leave this soap box right here for the next guy

Listen to this guy, and the podcast he refers to. It made me think the same way.

[Onyx Rain]

Agree with the OP's sentiments....

As for 3rd person, I got no problem with it...or fighting people using it....I don't think any advantage is that huge.

But...
The community has spoken and are overwhelmingly against it....so I think they really gotta be careful here.

[Orkhepaj]

first if they rly want a good game they would drop the wot copy and make something which is actually fun to play

[Lonestar1771]

Joseph Mallan, on 30 November 2012 - 09:30 AM, said:

Lin the problem with the design choices is that the favorites of the era... seem to be missing. If I can't have a Warhammer, I could have a Hammerhands!!! Gimme a Zeus or a Victor, I'll take a Black Knight, these are Mechs I WANT to pilot!

Nailed it!


@OP: I am really tired of people making excuses for PGI. Most everyone here has played enough games to know what they like and don't like. So why oh why is PGI still trying to cram sh-t they don't like down their throats? They don't need to reinvent the wheel here. They said they wanted to make a mech sim and they have done nothing but move away from that. There is nothing Sim-like in this game. It's just a FPS. I want the game that they outlined in the Dev Blogs not this Frankenstein of a game. Whats interesting is this community wasn't toxic until PGI started messing up and pulling dumb stunts, like the whole OB fiasco. PGI made the bed and now it's time to reap what they sow. We get it's beta and what not, but that only covers so many screw ups before people start to get fed up. Beta is not all encompassing and is not an excuse to make stupid decisions.