114 replies to this topic

[Naeron66]

Armorpiercer M82, on 02 December 2012 - 05:17 AM, said:

thats completely wrong. 35% of my games are against premades, so you are wrong.

And your evidence for this is where?

[Naeron66]

Haxburch, on 02 December 2012 - 05:23 AM, said:

And waths your F uckin g point? Is then a bad thing to do this?

The point is that your losses against "premades" are in fact mostly losses against other solo players.

Its the refrain of players everywhere, its organised groups that are causing me to lose all the time. No, its bad players on your team that cause these losses.

Phase 3 MM will address to a degree, because bad solo players will be facing bad grouped players.

Haxburch, on 02 December 2012 - 05:23 AM, said:

8man premade should ongly fight another 8man premade . Finish !

They do with Phase 2 MM.

Haxburch, on 02 December 2012 - 05:23 AM, said:

4man premade should figth like 2x4 premade vs 2x4 premade or 4xpremade+4random vs 4xpremade+4random . Finish!

No, players should mainly fight those of a comparable skill level. Doesn't matter if they are in a premade or not.

Haxburch, on 02 December 2012 - 05:23 AM, said:

A solo player should ongly fight vs other solo players. Or if he select in 4xpremade+4random matches . Finish !

Why? Other than the illusion that this will make you win more?

Jelan, on 02 December 2012 - 05:29 AM, said:

8 solo people co-ordinating will beat 8 solo people that arent, thats the simple truth. Will you then be demanding that ingame chat function is turned off to stop people co-ordinating against you?

This is the truth. If people don't run off alone and do stupid things and if they type/read even a minimum amount of info in chat then they will beat a team full of solo players who do all the wrong things.

Edited by Naeron66, 02 December 2012 - 07:07 AM.

[Elkarlo]

May be getting Dead Eye out of retirement and make a Mission with Bots...

Where the Bots start shooting the Mech you locked, where you can earn little money,
where you can test Weapons and where you can explore the Maps.

Maybe call it Pirate's Moon (My Suggestion in CB Forum)

I am a PuG but i have my fancy Founder Stuff, and i have learned how to play in Teams in other Games,
so i am only on the Drawback side of no TS.

But with no Chance for players to do it or how to Pilot a "Mech they will simply be outnumbered outgun and frustrated.

And because they are not so good as the other Teammembers, the Team with the less worse Pug's will win,
as a good Pilot can only even out 2:1 Numbers as he runs out of Mech then.

The Simplest way of killing the PuG annoyance would giving them a Way to learn it the not so hard way.

And that would be a Singleplayer Mission.

Maybe Dead Eye as leader of a Half Lance, the Player as Leader of the other Half Lance, and they fight 8 Stock Mechs with reduced Firerate as the Pirate Mechs are not very well mantained..

The Player will get Repairs/Rearms for free, and will get 20k Cbills on a Mission Fail and 40k on a Mission won.

This would reduce Problems in PuG nothing else, as Pug's are needed to EARN MONEY

Edited by Elkarlo, 02 December 2012 - 07:14 AM.

[Warenwolf]

Joseph Mallan, on 02 December 2012 - 06:48 AM, said:

To correct your assumption, I am not against your present suggestion. I am against what will follow. First it'll be separate PUGs from PreMades. The Vet PUGs from Boots. The Trial Mechs From Owned, Then Lasers from Missiles.

That seems not likely.

Joseph Mallan, on 02 December 2012 - 06:48 AM, said:

I don't know. Maybe people have to high of an opinion of their skills. If you are new, or you are not properly utilizing chat or voice, you are going to lose to those with more experience. That is the nature of competition. And I am one competitive Son of a *itch.

I have been around for couple of years now on this world so I have proper understanding of what competition is (and that people will compete with each other over irrelevant things IRL if you let them). But right now this is not competition. Let us be honest - there is simply no challenge element.

I don't give rats *** about my stats, they are what they are:

Spoiler

But right now I am not having fun. I can have fun with 20% wr and KD of 0.0001 as long as I was defeated most of the time because of my lack of skill. That is OK for me as long as I had fair chance.
But if I win because four people on my team were in a premade consisting of streakcats (this really happened) then f_ _ _ k that victory... Or (as in many many matches) the premade group rushes the cap zone, ending the match in 2-3 mins (it doesn't matter if you win or lose, these matches are boring).

Edited by Warenwolf, 02 December 2012 - 07:18 AM.

[Blood Skar]

Have to say i agree with the OP.

PUG's should only be fighting other PUG's. (imo of course)
8 vs 8 random people.

Premade's should be seperated into 4v4 or 8v8. I guess the 4premade+4PUG would work, but as OP says only IF the PUGs agree to being with premades.

We need seperate queues, not just a Launch button that covers all.

1, PUG Launch. (standard launuch button, for 8 v 8 PUG random players)
2, Premade 4 team Launch. (a 4 mech per team game)
3, Premade 8 team Launch. (a 8 mech per team game)
4, Premade 4 + PUG 4 Launch. (mixed game, for premades that want a 8 mech match but can only muster 4 players)

I'm under no illusion that the above will happen, i'm 100% sure it wont. It's just my view on how i think things should be in MWO.
Feel free to disagree.

[BoomDog]

Lykaon, on 02 December 2012 - 04:51 AM, said:

The problem is simple.You and many other PUG players are vastly over estimating the numbers of premade players currently in game.

No, we're not.

How do I know? Simple.

When open beta started, a whole bunch of new players jumped in their trial mechs and started playing. After about three or four matches of getting mostly curbstomped 8 to 0, I'd have one game that was really close. So I started paying attention to the after battle reaport. At LEAST 2 out of 3 games, the report would show my team with 6...7.... or even 8 players with 0 EXP earned, while the entire other team got exp. After searching the forums for why that is, I was completely shocked to learn that us noobs in junk mechs were fighting 8 man pre-mades.

Obviously, this was a much bigger problem than what you or even PGI has admitted to, because of how quickly they slapped a draconian MM on the game. I'm certain they were bleeding new players.

Think about this. We're talking about a company that still hasn't fixed many major bugs, adds maybe one mech every 2 months, maybe a new map every 3 months, yet, had a hot fix on MM in less than a week.

Edited by BoomDog, 02 December 2012 - 07:28 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Warenwolf, on 02 December 2012 - 07:14 AM, said:

That seems not likely.



I have been around for couple of years now on this world so I have proper understanding of what competition is (and that people will compete with each other over irrelevant things IRL if you let them). But right now this is not competition. Let us be honest - there is simply no challenge element.

I don't give rats *** about my stats, they are what they are:

Spoiler

But right now I am not having fun. I can have fun with 20% wr and KD of 0.0001 as long as I was defeated most of the time because of my lack of skill. That is OK for me as long as I had fair chance.
But if I win because four people on my team were in a premade consisting of streakcats (this really happened) then f_ _ _ k that victory... Or (as in many many matches) the premade group rushes the cap zone, ending the match in 2-3 mins (it doesn't matter if you win or lose, these matches are boring).

Just gotta ask. Is it fair that the US Military brings Abrams to a battle? I'm here to play and test a war game! I want to have a chance against the Clans. Who's weapons have historically been better and more powerful than the ISs. So if I run into a particularly tough build, I want to learn how to kick it's ash! Cause whatever we are facing now would be equal to the weakest Clan Omni!

[Haxburch]

Naeron66, on 02 December 2012 - 07:04 AM, said:

full stuff

Sound like complete elitist BS and Nerdrage wich fear his easy stat pushers run away , i dont care !

My post its just my point of view in principle, it has fairly and clearly regulated to-be . I have no issues to figth ur premades and i dont fear them . I have all mechs i want and full equipt like i want .
I dont care about K/D but i know i kill evry match 1-3 people and do evry match 250-800 dmg as a pug and alot do not so good. But this not all my skill its just how the team is mixed . Also i would no fear you , this game dont needs so much skill , in fact actual with all the lag-jenners and streakscats it need nothing .

I can just rofl about the elite nerdkids with the stats. I am 44 sky is not falling for me if i loose matches ... , bandit bandit ..f6...d4 lol . I just care about new player wich are not so get in this game and you elite nerd folks push them away . So this game will not last long and i have no funny battletech game anymore.

At last the crying about this will not stop anyway , sooner or later u have to do this . If the QQ stops then the game is dead anyway .

Edited by Haxburch, 02 December 2012 - 07:57 AM.

[Oy of MidWorld]

Blood Skar, on 02 December 2012 - 07:21 AM, said:

Have to say i agree with the OP.

PUG's should only be fighting other PUG's. (imo of course)
8 vs 8 random people.

Premade's should be seperated into 4v4 or 8v8. I guess the 4premade+4PUG would work, but as OP says only IF the PUGs agree to being with premades.

We need seperate queues, not just a Launch button that covers all.

1, PUG Launch. (standard launuch button, for 8 v 8 PUG random players)
2, Premade 4 team Launch. (a 4 mech per team game)
3, Premade 8 team Launch. (a 8 mech per team game)
4, Premade 4 + PUG 4 Launch. (mixed game, for premades that want a 8 mech match but can only muster 4 players)

I'm under no illusion that the above will happen, i'm 100% sure it wont. It's just my view on how i think things should be in MWO.
Feel free to disagree.

So what about pre mades that consists of two or three players (the way i play most of the time) Not allowed on one server? Granted, the new player experience could be a lot better, and i don't get why they don't make some sort of tutorial, but i still believe that many PUG's would still feel stomped if they entered a PUG only server.

I play PUG sometimes, i don't feel that it is terribly harsh, and i bet so do a lot of PUG's. But sure, if you lose or get downed, surely that must have been some elite pre-made group. One thought: Sometimes PUG's down mechs...

[Bobfrombobtown]

in case it hasn't been brought up yet. http://mwomercs.com/...79-matchmaking/ You can see that 2-4 man groups will be matched per phase 1 matchmaking. Beyond groups of 4 you have to have a group of 8 and you will play against groups of 8.

[TJ Saint]

I seriously have to disagree. Ever since I started premades, the only times I(we) lose as a team is when we come against other premades. This COULD be used as a supporting argument for your opinion, except that playing premade tends to get boring. Most of my kills come when I pug, and the most challenging time I have is when I pug... Mainly because I stink.
If you separate pugs and premades abuse will occur, and an even worse problem will crop up. All a group on TS has to do is countdown and simultaneously launch and they have a pretty good chance of landing in the same match. Then what? You still have a premade versus pugs.

The system is fine as it is. However, I think it would be a good idea to possibly put a voice channel in the game, as in EVE, so when you land in a match you can talk to your random teammates. This, however, creates bandwidth and other technical/logistic problems.

[Armorpiercer M82]

Blood Skar, on 02 December 2012 - 07:21 AM, said:

Have to say i agree with the OP.

PUG's should only be fighting other PUG's. (imo of course)
8 vs 8 random people.

Premade's should be seperated into 4v4 or 8v8. I guess the 4premade+4PUG would work, but as OP says only IF the PUGs agree to being with premades.

We need seperate queues, not just a Launch button that covers all.

1, PUG Launch. (standard launuch button, for 8 v 8 PUG random players)
2, Premade 4 team Launch. (a 4 mech per team game)
3, Premade 8 team Launch. (a 8 mech per team game)
4, Premade 4 + PUG 4 Launch. (mixed game, for premades that want a 8 mech match but can only muster 4 players)

I'm under no illusion that the above will happen, i'm 100% sure it wont. It's just my view on how i think things should be in MWO.
Feel free to disagree.

+1

[Haxburch]

Oy of MidWorld, on 02 December 2012 - 07:44 AM, said:

So what about pre mades that consists of two or three players (the way i play most of the time) Not allowed on one server? Granted, the new player experience could be a lot better, and i don't get why they don't make some sort of tutorial, but i still believe that many PUG's would still feel stomped if they entered a PUG only server.

I play PUG sometimes, i don't feel that it is terribly harsh, and i bet so do a lot of PUG's. But sure, if you lose or get downed, surely that must have been some elite pre-made group. One thought: Sometimes PUG's down mechs...

You dont get it or? Sure they will feel stomped , conspiracy is evrywehre. Even if u are rigth it has to be clear and fair rules and the QQ stop . PGI need this to raise and you great elite player want your challenge . OK get one figth ur self and let the poor pigs first learn.

[The Amazing Atomic Spaniel]

BoomDog, on 02 December 2012 - 07:27 AM, said:

When open beta started, a whole bunch of new players jumped in their trial mechs and started playing. After about three or four matches of getting mostly curbstomped 8 to 0, I'd have one game that was really close. So I started paying attention to the after battle reaport. At LEAST 2 out of 3 games, the report would show my team with 6...7.... or even 8 players with 0 EXP earned, while the entire other team got exp. After searching the forums for why that is, I was completely shocked to learn that us noobs in junk mechs were fighting 8 man pre-mades.

Yep, or it would pitch teams agianst those who had only just started to play. I had a lot of games like this one...

[IIIuminaughty]

PUGs suck anyways. Why listen to PUGs when they are bad?

[Armorpiercer M82]

RocketDog, on 02 December 2012 - 07:51 AM, said:

Yep, or it would pitch teams agianst those who had only just started to play. I had a lot of games like this one...

ou heaven

8 FOUNDERS PREMADES against 8 pug.. this is balance ? trololoool
this is what im talking about.

so give us PUG vs PUG, im not interested in elitist premades.

Edited by Armorpiercer M82, 02 December 2012 - 07:58 AM.

[ferranis]

Is has to be said again: either you are against a sepperation of pugs and premades or you are a D*ck.
There is no discussion.

The 4 man Limit lessend the burden a bit. but this still has to go.

[Bguk]

-1 billion kazillion jillion for the op (see his posting history)

Playing vs. 2-4 man premades is fine. Do I play in a premade? Sure. Do I also play solo? Sure. 8 mans are coming and it will pit only 8 man premades against it. No matter what they do, someone will always complain. If they did nothing I can see it.

Armorpiercer M82, on 02 December 2012 - 07:54 AM, said:

ou heaven

8 FOUNDERS PREMADES against 8 pug.. this is balance ? trololoool
this is what im talking about.

so give us PUG vs PUG, im not interested in elitist premades.

And this no longer happens due to the mm steps they have taken, unless they do a countdown which still has a chance of not working. Get over it.

[Sevaradan]

RocketDog, on 02 December 2012 - 07:51 AM, said:

Yep, or it would pitch teams agianst those who had only just started to play. I had a lot of games like this one...

only 2 of the losers were in trial mechs, try again.

[Warenwolf]

Joseph Mallan, on 02 December 2012 - 07:35 AM, said:

Just gotta ask. Is it fair that the US Military brings Abrams to a battle? I'm here to play and test a war game!

This isn't emulation of war, not even close. I suspect that you would find an emulator (there are few on the market, not for general public though) exceptionally boring and the real thing extremely unpleasant .

Joseph Mallan, on 02 December 2012 - 07:35 AM, said:

I want to have a chance against the Clans. Who's weapons have historically been better and more powerful than the ISs. So if I run into a particularly tough build, I want to learn how to kick it's ash! Cause whatever we are facing now would be equal to the weakest Clan Omni!

This being a game - the Clan's omnimechs will be on sale for credits and real money. And the matchmaker (which should be implemented by Clan introduction) will, I speculate, probably give them more weight (as in battle value, not actual tonnage).