119 replies to this topic

[Jman5]

I for one can't wait for ECMs. Just the threat of rolling against them will reduce the sheer quantity of streak users and LRM boats.

[Codejack]

Trauglodyte, on 02 December 2012 - 05:43 PM, said:

can you imagine what the current game would be like with SkillCats running around and no Jenners to somewhat counter you?

With no Jenners, I would run my guncat more; against anything it can hit, it can do more and more concentrated damage than any missile boat.

Everyone keeps forgetting that there are counters to the streakcat, and not just staying out of range; a 4xAC/2 'phract will ruin an A1's day, even up close.

[Captain Midnight]

Codejack, on 02 December 2012 - 05:51 PM, said:

With no Jenners, I would run my guncat more; against anything it can hit, it can do more and more concentrated damage than any missile boat.

Everyone keeps forgetting that there are counters to the streakcat, and not just staying out of range; a 4xAC/2 'phract will ruin an A1's day, even up close.

No, it won't. That's where you are wrong... Nothing counters the A1 besides being a dramatically better pilot than the A1.

[Codejack]

Captain Midnight, on 02 December 2012 - 06:08 PM, said:

No, it won't. That's where you are wrong... Nothing counters the A1 besides being a dramatically better pilot than the A1.

Heh, well, the 6xSRM6 loadout I'm playing with just tore one apart. I kill them all the time in my Gaussphract.

Or did you mean no light or medium mech?

[Andarist]

Codejack, on 02 December 2012 - 03:16 PM, said:

ALL OF THE OTHERS KEEP GETTING KILLED BY ENEMY MECHS THAT THEY HAVE NO WAY TO KILL!

It's not the streakcat that's out of whack, it's the Jenner.

I question this statement. Gaussphract implies 2 gauss rifles. Shoot the jenners with them. They die. End of problem. Continued fun!

[Codejack]

Andarist, on 02 December 2012 - 06:16 PM, said:

I question this statement. Gaussphract implies 2 gauss rifles. Shoot the jenners with them. They die. End of problem. Continued fun!

That's really tough when they aren't where they appear to be.

[Umbra8]

About Jenners and hate for lights in general.

Wait.

Wait for two important changes that are ​coming: collisions and the removal of the lag shield. Only once those are in place will we be able to effectively evaluate the threat of light mechs in game. Collisions alone will put a much higher onus on the skill of the jenner pilot and a critical mistake on his part will likely take them right out of the match.

Soon...

Edited by Umbra8, 02 December 2012 - 06:20 PM.

[Captain Midnight]

Codejack, on 02 December 2012 - 06:15 PM, said:

Heh, well, the 6xSRM6 loadout I'm playing with just tore one apart. I kill them all the time in my Gaussphract.

Or did you mean no light or medium mech?

then you were dramatically better than they were, at least several folds better. In my streak A1 I fear nothing and if I get less than 800 damage I feel bad about my performance. If I were to lose a match I'd probably look for a new team because it could not possibly have been my fault and I probably went for 7 kills before finally dying and my entire team had less than 100 damage combined. A mech doesn't have to be unbeatable to be OP, it just has to be OP to be OP.

[Codejack]

Captain Midnight, on 02 December 2012 - 06:23 PM, said:

then you were dramatically better than they were, at least several folds better. In my streak A1 I fear nothing and if I get less than 800 damage I feel bad about my performance. If I were to lose a match I'd probably look for a new team because it could not possibly have been my fault and I probably went for 7 kills before finally dying and my entire team had less than 100 damage combined. A mech doesn't have to be unbeatable to be OP, it just has to be OP to be OP.

Really? You never run into the 4xAC/2 Cataphract that keeps you too shaken to get a lock until he's half-cored you? Or the lucky cockpit double gauss hit?

I see them a lot, but I also AM them a lot.

[Andarist]

Codejack, on 02 December 2012 - 06:17 PM, said:

That's really tough when they aren't where they appear to be.

I shoot jenners all the time with dual gauss. The trick isn't knowing where they are. It's knowing where they will be.

[Vermaxx]

Reintegrate knockdowns. Light mechs are less common, but so are streak cats for a twofold reason.

- Lights are less common, and streaks are really only 1-on-1 dangerous against lights.
- People can trip cats again too. Hello return of the Dragonbay Packers.

FORCE streak mechanics to artifically spread the hit locations more than they do now.

- MWO uses an expanding cone for missile hits, including tracking missiles. MEANING, careful aim and close range increase missile hits, something that never happened in tabletop. Despite the fact that streaks can target other areas, they still tend to cluster on torso hits if fired in chain mode. Force them to artifically randomize the hit locations using the WHOLE MECH, instead of still using the cone and focusing on the torso-to-torso cone of most mechs.

Lower smoke and cockpit shake.

- This is already coming.






Raise their cooldown, lower missile damage if the above weren't enough. I suspect the above will be enough.

[Captain Midnight]

Codejack, on 02 December 2012 - 06:27 PM, said:

Really? You never run into the 4xAC/2 Cataphract that keeps you too shaken to get a lock until he's half-cored you? Or the lucky cockpit double gauss hit?

I see them a lot, but I also AM them a lot.

nothing can possibly shake me too much for me to get a lock with missiles, you only have to keep crosshair inside the gigantic square. Goodluck cockpitting me while I abuse jumpjet hitbox lag, no offense but it just isn't that compelling to hear one man say he beat someone he is better than, you DESERVE to beat someone you are better than 100% of the time, rather than like 30% of the time vs. streaks. A streak pilot has to be total garbage to lose to anyone who isn't just as broken.

In my 2D commando with only 3 streaks I average 500 damage a round (with screenshots to prove it BTW) and if I were to pilot my A1 I would legitimately expect a minimum of 800 damage.

[p4r4g0n]

Captain Midnight, on 02 December 2012 - 04:53 PM, said:

Codejack I'm afraid you sacrificed any credibility you had when you said "keeping a lock is hard" and "I die to jenners in a streak A1"

That's a little unfair. Some of us have a problem where lights teleport from one point to another when they go fast enough. When you get this, it is IMPOSSIBLE to keep the reticle long enough to lock on to the target.

Edited by p4r4g0n, 02 December 2012 - 06:35 PM.

[Codejack]

Andarist, on 02 December 2012 - 06:29 PM, said:

I shoot jenners all the time with dual gauss. The trick isn't knowing where they are. It's knowing where they will be.

p4r4g0n, on 02 December 2012 - 06:35 PM, said:

That's a little unfair. Some of us have a problem where lights teleport from one point to another when they go fast enough. When you get this, it is IMPOSSIBLE to keep the reticle long enough to lock on to the target.

THIS. THIS is what everyone seems to be missing. Yes, if I'm having a good night, I can lead a Jenner or a Cicada with gauss rifles and usually at least get them after 2 or 3 shots, but on weekend nights, when the lag is bad, there's just no way.

Addendum: Just had a bad match where my PUG split up and got annihilated, I was dueling with a Jenner who kept darting around, I only got off 3 alphas on him. At the end of the match, I had done 40 damage.

Edited by Codejack, 02 December 2012 - 06:45 PM.

[Haitchpeasauce]

Sounds like you should try running a Jenner. Sure I run a Jenner, but I started with Hunchbacks and Catapults.

It's not like Jenners are OP or cheap. No no, it's quite easy to die if unless you stay on the ball and work with your team.

Good Jenner pilots will look for targets to harass that would otherwise snipe/LRM their team, and will also avoid single confrontations with streak boats unless they know they have the drop, or until they have backup.

Likewise, ballistic/direct fire heavies need (SSRM) support for when the fast moving lights come calling. Stick with your team.

Long story short, same as for horror movies, don't ever go alone.

I look forward to when knockdown is reimplemented. It will separate the good light pilots from the bad.

[Codejack]

Haitchpeasauce, on 02 December 2012 - 06:45 PM, said:

Sounds like you should try running a Jenner. Sure I run a Jenner, but I started with Hunchbacks and Catapults.

It's not like Jenners are OP or cheap. No no, it's quite easy to die if unless you stay on the ball and work with your team.

Good Jenner pilots will look for targets to harass that would otherwise snipe/LRM their team, and will also avoid single confrontations with streak boats unless they know they have the drop, or until they have backup.

Likewise, ballistic/direct fire heavies need (SSRM) support for when the fast moving lights come calling. Stick with your team.

Long story short, same as for horror movies, don't ever go alone.

I look forward to when knockdown is reimplemented. It will separate the good light pilots from the bad.

I did run a Jenner. Running around behind the heavies and shooting them in the back isn't my style, though.

Edited by Codejack, 02 December 2012 - 06:47 PM.

[FallenFactol]

I would like to see some serious number crunching, like DPS. It's a shame for other weapons you can't get great to hit ratios.

[Codejack]

FallenFactol, on 02 December 2012 - 06:58 PM, said:

I would like to see some serious number crunching, like DPS.

http://mwowiki.org/w...ategory:Weapons

FallenFactol, on 02 December 2012 - 06:58 PM, said:

It's a shame for other weapons you can't get great to hit ratios.

That is the essential problem, yes, but that has less to do with the weapon than with the game being in beta.

[Haitchpeasauce]

Codejack, on 02 December 2012 - 06:47 PM, said:

I did run a Jenner. Running around behind the heavies and shooting them in the back isn't my style, though.

Only the tip of the iceburg of the role of Lights.

[Joseph Mallan]

Lefty Lucy, on 02 December 2012 - 03:14 PM, said:

Your own post answers your question:

You have more kills in your streak cat than all of your other variants combined. The fact that they're all heavy mechs is a good indication that one of them is significantly out of whack with the others.

Are you kidding? Sure teh StreakCat is getting a few more kills that the rest of his builds but take heed that a Streak launcher hits will 100% of all damage. It is supposed to be exactly what it is. What is broken is the Hard points! Why does a Mech need 6 missile hard points when it normally holds 2 launchers. Don't blame the weapon system for the designer's mistake. If the Cats had TWO Missile hard points only this would not be an issue. So don't blame the weapon for the DEVs oversight. 2 Streaks are not OP 4 Medium lasers are not OP, 6 Streaks do the same damage as 6 Medium lasers with just as much convergence. So why is there no QQ over the 8 Laser Hunchie?