119 replies to this topic

[Murzao]

Khobai, on 05 December 2012 - 07:07 AM, said:

Its not an Atlas though. It has half the armor. There's no reason not to use the CN9-D instead. It goes fast enough to get a lagshield which dramatically improves its survivability. And its hardpoints are great.

Centurions can at least shoot down which is something the Atlas can't do.....an Atlas on a hill if you are below them is a free kill. Cents have a comparable firepower and go much faster I can get in behind an Atlas in no time. Centurions don't really have 'less' armor than an Atlas, they use their arms as shields to absorb damage.....Cents at least have the speed to be able to turn to take arm hits.

As far as a lagshield goes, I also have a 150k Jenner and my 90-97k Cents have just as much as the Jenner. If asked which mech makes people cower behind a hill more, hands down is the Cent.

Khobai, on 05 December 2012 - 07:07 AM, said:

Again thats too slow. If youre not going fast enough to get a lagshield, theres really no advantage to piloting a medium over a heavy. I mean cataphracts can go like 85kph with speed tweak, have more armor and more weapons, so why not just play a catraphract if youre only gonna go 85kph in a centurion anyway? Unless youre gonna go significantly faster than a heavy then a medium mech is pointless.

Cataphracts are also free kills they might have more overall armor but the CT hitbox is huge.....far easier to hit it. In actual fact CTFs have less armor because the only time you hit their arms is if you are a really bad shot. I love fighting phracts, they might hit me a few times with some AC fire but in return my 55 alpha is ripping their face off. I can (and have) killed 2-3 phracts at the same time. Seriously when does a phract ever brawl 95% of the time they're stationary trying to aim.

Is also the reason why Dragons blow their CT is huge you'd have to be blind to miss it. Well also the Cat as well.

Edited by Murzao, 05 December 2012 - 07:33 AM.

[Pendraco]

I spent 4 hours dropping in 8v8's last night. I can only think of 2 matches that were DDC heavy the rest had a very good mix of 'Mechs. I ran the HBK-4P and 4SP and nothing else..I found them to be extemely effective, to my surprise I did much better than usual.

I really think it all comes down to your Drop Commander and how well everyone works together.

[Agent of Change]

Taryys, on 05 December 2012 - 06:32 AM, said:

I think mostly people are not play mediums as much since the ECM mechs are the flavor of the month, and this will probably continue until the newness wares off, then things should normalize a bit.

As Long as ECM is powerful enough to be a "must have" you will see most mechs only being those that can mount ecm, and therefore the only commonly seen medium will be a cicada. Personally I see this as evidence of the flawed design of ECM, great concept but the execution needs some work.

[Zypher]

I do fine puggin in my 4SP, but I support the heavier brawlers weaving in and out and taking cover to let the heavies and assaults absorb some damage. It's a durable mech and I tend to survive some brutal hits.

In a medium you just have to know your job, and well, be better than your medium counterpart. I can run 3-4 51point alphas with out a shutdown in a row, depending on the map of course. Nothing to scoff at in a medium that is running around in the middle of a brawl.

Edited by Zypher, 05 December 2012 - 08:03 AM.

[Murrdox]

I keep going back to my Yen-Lo Wang. I bought it first because I loved the paintjob, and I didn't have a Medium Mech in my Mechbay yet.

However, since I've bought it, all I've done is upgrade the heatsinks to Double, and ran with it. I get a decent amount of kills with it, and I have a lot of fun running it. I think I do better in my Centurion than I do when I run my Founders Atlas. I love Mediums! Haven't tried out a Cicada yet but I'm looking forward to it. I spent too many C-Bills upgrading my Awesome and my Cataphract... both of which I have a much harder time piloting than the Wang.

[Kraven Kor]

Where are the mediums?

Crying in the corner, desperate for "someone to talk to."

Seriously. I can't even really play in 8v8, since I only own medium mechs and one Cataphract at the moment.

My Kingdom for a viable role in 8v8 for Medium Mechs.

That being said, I'm sure a few exceptional pilots or groups will still be able to field certain mediums (CN9-D, -AL maybe, HBK-4SP maybe?) but... yeah. I has a sad.

We'll see how things shake out over the next few weeks. Last night was... enlightening.

[Sevaradan]

atleast they are more useful than a streak cat

I;d let a hunchback w 9 flamers in my drop before a streak cat.

Edited by Sevaradan, 05 December 2012 - 09:01 AM.

[Shepherd]

I'm strictly a medium pilot, and I didn't notice any real difference in how matches went for me last night after the patch when compared to the last month or so.

Mostly, mediums and heavies behave the same way. Mediums have a little less firepower, or a lot less firepower if you try to get them to go faster than heavies. I think that viewed only from the perspectives of raw firepower and maneuverability, yes, heavies are "better" and mediums "have no advantage." However, I think that pilot skill and team coordination are the driving factors in a win or loss. If you've got a pilot who is comfortable in a medium, putting them in a heavy just because isn't going to magically make the match go better.

[Tasorin]

Poor balancing is poor yo.

If there was weight matching or battle value matching included in the current 8-man queue then we wouldn't be having this discussion.

As soon as PGI announced the phased approach to match making people were already crapping all over the lack of match making in the match making phases and calling it what it was from the beginning. Fatties Alpha striking is what the majority of matches have devolved into, the days of being able to run Medium brawlers are mostly over until PGI rolls out Phase IV of match making.

[NeoFighter]

To make mediums effective again they need to bring them back to the 100kph margin. Why grab a hunch that tops at 90 when you can get a dragon with more armor and that is faster?! A speed buff for mediums in my opinion and they are back in the game. Simple

[Kraven Kor]

NeoFighter, on 05 December 2012 - 09:05 AM, said:

To make mediums effective again they need to bring them back to the 100kph margin. Why grab a hunch that tops at 90 when you can get a dragon with more armor and that is faster?! A speed buff for mediums in my opinion and they are back in the game. Simple

I still don't think that would quite cut it, but it could help... dunno.

8v8 is, basically, "all competitive play, all the time." Which is fine, and really a "good thing" if that is what you seek. Again, we'll see how things shake out after a few weeks of this.

[Enigmos]

Neither of the poll questions are true.

While Phase II matchmaking does not factor drop weight for match balancing, Phase III will.

Mediums will have their day. Might as well include them now if your team is training to win.

That said, with the cataphract there for close assault support the medium role may be evolving.

Edited by OriginalTibs, 05 December 2012 - 09:25 AM.

[Garth Erlam]

Adridos, on 05 December 2012 - 06:28 AM, said:

There is only one medium mech in the game right now and that is Dragon... and the advnaced Centurion variant, which I've seen none of.

:*(
/sadly walks back to his Cicada.

[Diemos]

I was running my hunchie last night and ran into a situation where I had no IFF, don't know if this is the ECM effect, but I still face ***** a Cataphract (knowing it was enemy only because it was shooting at me) and another Hunchie. As long as you know where your team is, it's not to hard to divulge who is a threat.

[Lykaon]

Well previous trends reduced the frequency of classic 50 ton mediums.With the hoards of streakcats that cored mediums in seconds they fell into disuse.Fewer players piloted the streakchum.

Now we have ECM and the new toy is what everyone wants to play with so the Cicada is the medium mech we see most.

We will see more medium mechs once we get more chassis that offer different tactical uses ( I mean jump capable 50-55 ton mechs)

[Orzorn]

Shepherd, on 05 December 2012 - 09:01 AM, said:

I'm strictly a medium pilot, and I didn't notice any real difference in how matches went for me last night after the patch when compared to the last month or so.

Mostly, mediums and heavies behave the same way. Mediums have a little less firepower, or a lot less firepower if you try to get them to go faster than heavies. I think that viewed only from the perspectives of raw firepower and maneuverability, yes, heavies are "better" and mediums "have no advantage." However, I think that pilot skill and team coordination are the driving factors in a win or loss. If you've got a pilot who is comfortable in a medium, putting them in a heavy just because isn't going to magically make the match go better.

I think one of the most important facts (baring the gigantic Centurion) is that mediums have a smaller silohoute than heavy mechs, often by almost, I'd say, about 2/5ths (so not quite half). Compare the size of a Hunchback to that of a Catapult, Dragon, or Cataphract.

There's a lot more places to hide or not be hit from as a Hunchback than as a Dragon.

[Jman5]

OP, and everyone else:

You're going to have to give it time. People are going to choose simplistic mech set ups at the start while they're feeling around for best team composition. A bunch of assaults, or bunch of lights is going to dominate for a little while. It will take time for the more nuanced advantages of mediums to start popping up.

Just be careful about stating things mater-of-factly at the moment because we're going through a period of experimentation right now.

Edited by Jman5, 05 December 2012 - 09:54 AM.

[Enigmos]

Garth Erlam, on 05 December 2012 - 09:27 AM, said:

:*(
/sadly walks back to his Cicada.

/calls after Garth:

"Hey Garth: Nice work today!

[LordBraxton]

TERRIBLE POLL IS TERRIBLE

Really I want to pick mediums suck, but they don't I LOVE mediums.

That dosen't mean the current 8v8 system isnt awful, making mediums much less viable.

Everyone on here defending the current system is only doing so because they love their medium mechs and can make them work, so are happy to stroke off their epeen on the forums about how many atlas they can kill in their centurion.

I pilot CN9s\DRGs\AWSs and there is no way I'd bring my centurion to an 8v8.

The ONLY advantage the frontline mediums (cicadas are lights get real) have is slightly lower profile, which really doesn't matter if you know how to handle a larger mech.



BOTTOM LINE

Sure I can do great in my centurion, but I have the potential to contribute way more in my AWS-9M, which goes nearly as fast. So what is the point of my three centurions?

2 teams of similar skill, one 2\2\2\2 vs one with 2 lights\6 assaults Id put all the money I'll ever make on the assault team (given they both have equal number of ECM)

[Bishop Steiner]

Captain Midnight, on 05 December 2012 - 04:14 AM, said:

Anyone running a medium in 8v8 for a competitive reason? no just for kicks? Mediums seem useless these days without a weight limit in 8v8. I tell people to run a heavy or get out of my group.

Makes me glad I am not in your group, since Mediums run well can be great. This, the whole "Heavy-Elitist" mentality, is why I wish they had never caved to the Pugly Casuals and made refit and re-arm so cheap. The original model, Assault were pretty much never going to break even and make money (hence limiting their numbers, and frequency of deployment (and coincidentally the exact fluff reasons that Assaults were uncommon in Btech), Heavies were effective but still expensive, and Mediums were the workhorse (easier/cheaper to maintain and repair) units.

Instead we have superman lights impervious to most weapons thanks to lagshield and no knockdown, and Heavy and Assault mechs that get cored and on a losing team and STILL make a profit.

Nothing quite as awesome as watching the drift since Closed Beta, from the promised "Battletech Fan's game" to a relatively generic feeling FPS min/max e-peen fest.

Well it was fun while it lasted.

Requiescat in Pace, Battletech.